Studying A Foreign Language

[HiddenEyes]

What's the best way to study a new language, for instance- Japanese, Korean , French or Spanish ?

[tanyijing2007]

What's the best way to study a new language, for instance- Japanese, Korean , French or Spanish ?

:P Hi, hiddeneyes, which language you wish to learn now? I'm learning Korean. Nice to meet you. Annyeonghaseyo :nod

[Xon]

hehehe. through Kindy books and kindy songs seriously. =)

[whui]

Try look for "language for dummies" series:).

[Leticia]

I think it's by visiting the country. I want to visit Germany someday. :) i love German.
Ich liebe Deutsch.

[shinyelhsa]

Seriously, through songs and dramas.

pick up words by words.

Best solution, attend classes or find a partner who could speak tat language to you.

^^

[chongkeat]

Attend classes. You need a teacher to correct your mistakes, which is difficult to notice on your own.

I tried learning foreign languages on my own, but after going to class for two months, i saw more improvement than half a year of self studying.

[Appolo]

attend classes and practice from the most basic there is.

[kazhaq]

I think it's by visiting the country. I want to visit Germany someday. :) i love German.
Ich liebe Deutsch.

why u love germany?

[LilSmurfy]

Personally i think learning through songs, entertainment programmes, drama...( of course in the language that u interested in) could help u to speed up the understanding and pronunciation. Thats how i speed up my learning in mandarin and through hk drama i learned quite many words in cantonese and now i could understand it without reading the subtitle. As well as attending classes is important 2..

[Herlene]

Cantonese is a piece of cake if you know Mandarin. It is just a dialect, not a language. Basically, it share similiar grammer with Mandarin.

If you are serious about learning a new foreign language, it is better to attend class where you can really learn..There 'll be teacher so you can always seek for guidance. Of course, songs and drama may help, but not as effective as attending a class.

[chongkeat]

I had this German kindy book, with five 200-word stories. Boy, it took me two weeks of intense dictionary word-hunting to finish it! A KINDY book, for god's sake!


So, yeah..... Reading books can help, but it will also tear the living soul out of you. But, hey! I finished it (finally)

[Neutral_pH]

I am currently studying in France so French for me.
It's simpler than German as most of the words are similar to English, save for the pronunciation.
If you can master German, you can definitely master French.

Bonjour, comment-allez vous? Vive la France! et la Malaisie!

[caramel_nut]

I am currently studying in France so French for me.
It's simpler than German as most of the words are similar to English, save for the pronunciation.
If you can master German, you can definitely master French.

Bonjour, comment-allez vous? Vive la France! et la Malaisie!speaking of French, it was quite hilarious when I tried to pick up some phrases while walking around France. I only remember one word:

billet -> ticket! (saw the word all over the place in the train station, so I figured out it must have meant ticket)

[HiddenEyes]

I learned my Cantonese through HK dramas, so yea. But languages like Korean and Japanese, I believe it's rather hard to learn from drama and songs.It's because I watch those dramas and listen to those songs as well.. Not really picking up.T.T.
So, you mean French is easier than German?

:P Hi, hiddeneyes, which language you wish to learn now? I'm learning Korean. Nice to meet you. Annyeonghaseyo :nod

Hi, I'm looking forward to learn some Korean.=) Probably a little French or Spanish as well, when I get to US.

I had this German kindy book, with five 200-word stories. Boy, it took me two weeks of intense dictionary word-hunting to finish it! A KINDY book, for god's sake!


So, yeah..... Reading books can help, but it will also tear the living soul out of you. But, hey! I finished it (finally)

So, you can speak and write German now ?

[chongkeat]

So, you can speak and write German now ?
Ein bisschen :nod, but I think the average four-year-old can kick my ass at German right now.

[Neutral_pH]

If the 4 year old is german that is. But you can kick his ass back in english. And why do you want to kick a 4 year's old kid's ass? :D

Yeah IMO French is hell lot more easier than German. German words can go up to 1 mile long, and contain lots of consonants. You'll be twisting your tongue in no time.

I am thinking of visiting Japan. Any tips of how to survive there?

[vikraman]

Read a Lot Of Manga. XD I learnt Cantonese due to lack of choice lol. All my friends came from Chinese primary school and I played basketball for KL where my coach would coach in Cantonese thus I learnt it by exposure. (Very slow process though.) I will probably attend classes for Mandarin though. Maybe next year :)

Wo bu hwei jang hua yi. :(

[henry_yew]

Wo bu hwei jang hua yi. :(


It should read, "wo bu hui jiang hua yu." If you include the proper phonetics, it should be, "wo3 bu4 hui4 jiang3 hua2 yu3."

LOL, Mandarin is not an easy language to learn. There are just four main phonetics but there are thousands of characters, each with different meanings. And hundreds of words bear the same phonetics, but written in different ways, and bear different meanings.

But once you can speak fluently, and write a little, Mandarin seems easier to cope with. In Mandarin, there isn't really a system where you can derive the meaning just simply from the characters. In most circumstances, you can derive the basic definitions based on the characters. But in complex sentences, that won't do.

To master the Mandarin language, it's not about just learning, it's also about using the language. Like Japanese, it's easier to learn Mandarin through songs.

You'll be surprised when you realise that you could pick up Cantonese fairly easily, but find lots of difficulty trying to learn Mandarin as a new language.

[vikraman]

I hope to learn to speak (fullstop). Reading and writing are probably beyond my (limited) ability and (very limited) time haha.

[evening_go_jogging]

Seems like not many people are interested in learning Spanish.

[henry_yew]

Hola! Komo esta? (I'm not sure if this is right either. Haha)

Spanish? I daresay it's a far easier language to learn, as compared to Japanese, German or French. The pronunciation is mostly similar to that of Bahasa Malaysia.

But it isn't such a popular language, though very widely used, too. Even personally I'd prefer learning French or German.

[chongkeat]

But it isn't such a popular language, though very widely used, too. Even personally I'd prefer learning French or German.
If by "popular", you mean "in vogue", then definitely, Spanish is not as romantic as French, or as common among peers as Japanese (in Malaysia). At least, not now.

Though, Spanish is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world.


Irrelevant P.S.: Anyone here knows where to learn Spanish in Penang?

[vikraman]

Spanish is the the first language for some 400 million people and is a second language for a further 100 million people. It's the second most common mother tongue (after mandarin) and the 3rd most common spoken language (after english and mandarin). It's also the third most common official language (20 countries have it as the official/co-official language). (53 countries for English, 29 countries for French.)

[Neutral_pH]

Who ever say French is romantic languange?? It does not sound romantic..heck it sound so pompous at times. I suppose many people confuse romance languages as being romantic, which it's not. Romance languages are ,IMO, are languages influenced by the Latin, from Rome, hence "Romance".

Unfortunately like chongkeat says Spanish is one of the most spoken languages in the world. French ,sadly, is not. Apart from one of the two official languages used in the UN, French is hardly used anywhere else apart from France and her former colonies. Vive la France la sangat......

However if you can learn Spanish, then you have no pbs learning the other remaining romance languages, mainly French and Italian. Once you get the hold of the grammar and the sentence structure, all you need to do is change the words as the former is identical for all the 3.

Plus Spanish chicks are hottest in Europe. Por Favor, senorita?

[henry_yew]

Por favor finito. *slaps* LOL

The French are very proud of their language. Most likely if you speak to them in English, they'd still reply you in French, despite them understanding English fairly well.

It's annoying. As tourists, you don't expect me to be able to speak your language. My lecturer was in Disneyland Paris trying to purchase entry tickets but the ticketing counter refused to entertained him because he spoke in English. She brushed him aside and entertained a French couple behind my lecturer. He got angry, so this is what happened:

Lecturer: (cuts in abruptly) Hah, saya nak empat keping tiket. Dua untuk dewasa, dua untuk kanak-kanak.

Ticketer: (looks extremely blur, and apologetic) Excuse me, sir, could you please come again? How could I help you?

[Neutral_pH]

MUAHAHAAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's a good one!

Yeah I know that the French are very anti-English, for some reason only known to them. I guess that's why they had been at each other throats for 100 years (see 100 year war).

My friend recounted a similar story that happened to another friend of his who was visiting paris. He wanted to go to the Eiffel Tower, and asked for directions in English, but nobody entertained him. Finally he got so fed up and he did the same as Yew's lecturer did. he bantai in Malay. The strange thing is he got way better service using Malay than he ever would if he spoke in English.

There are lots of stories like this happening in France. I even heard from one my mother's friends that her Sabahan friend spoke in Kadazan to get the attention of the waiter in a restaurant. And the guy received fantastic service!

My French elec prof once bantai us for writing our names in a "timid" manner (our handwriting is small actually compared to theirs). He said " Why are you so scared of your names? Be proud of them!". Another + point: he came to Malaysia before and he loves the country. In fact he's the only French prof who wolfed down half a durian by himself while the others abstain from the smell.

The moral of the story: Be proud of your native tongue and be proud of who you are.
I digress... I know....:D

[chongkeat]

Who ever say French is romantic languange?? It does not sound romantic..heck it sound so pompous at times. I suppose many people confuse romance languages as being romantic, which it's not. Romance languages are ,IMO, are languages influenced by the Latin, from Rome, hence "Romance".
Er, yeah, I know that. I just meant that most people think that "French = Like Everything in France = Atmosphere of Love = Romance". You know, popular (if somewhat incorrect) opinion.

Unfortunately like chongkeat says Spanish is one of the most spoken languages in the world.
Wait, unfortunately?! Why?

[davidchak]

I agree. French is a rough language. I prefer spanish though, kinda regret didnt take spanish instead of french....

[EricFu]

I agree. French is a rough language. I prefer spanish though, kinda regret didnt take spanish instead of french....

French may be a rough language, but I still think that it's a beautiful language in many ways, being rich in grammatical structures... C'est mon avis.

[Neutral_pH]

bah...chacun son avis on doit jamais forcer nos id?es sur les autres...

What I meant by "unfortunately" is actually meant for me, since I am using a language that's not so popular in msia, and I feel kinda regret if I leave France afterwards as I won't be practicing French anymore. Unless I got a French wife....... :D :D

[henry_yew]

My French elec prof once bantai us for writing our names in a "timid" manner (our handwriting is small actually compared to theirs). He said " Why are you so scared of your names? Be proud of them!". Another + point: he came to Malaysia before and he loves the country. In fact he's the only French prof who wolfed down half a durian by himself while the others abstain from the smell.

The moral of the story: Be proud of your native tongue and be proud of who you are.
I digress... I know....:D

There are three French lecturers in my university, and one of them speaks very fluent, eloquent English. Both of us were attending a Postgraduate dinner, where the VIP was the Director of the Petroleum Engineering Department from a French petroleum institute (forgot the name). My French lecturer was the emcee, and we sat next to each other. I had a great time learning a few things about French.

One thing for sure is that French people would find it difficult trying to speak English. Even if they try, most likely their English is quite unintelligible. The French VIP truly spoke English in a manner, which to my annoyance, was almost incomprehensible. I was surprised by this because my French lecturer speaks very good English! I asked her if she is really French, as in from the nation of France, and she said, "Yes!"

She knew what I was going to ask (I was going to ask why is it that the French Director's English was almost incomprehensible; she even told me she couldn't understand what he was speaking in English). She said, "The reason why the French don't speak such fluent English is because when one is too used with the French language, it's hard to converse in English. The French language is practically flat throughout, whereas the English language is full of the 'ups and downs'. There are stresses in English, but there is none in French. Most consonants at the end of French words are silent, but in English they're pronounced clearly. And with the French speaking French all the time (unless they're forced to speak in English), they receive almost no practice in the English language at all!"

Well, at least my French lecturer believes that in order for a student to learn French, it's fair that the student is provided translations to French words in the language that the student can understand. She frowns upon the methods used by French teachers to teach French to new students only in French with no translations.

[qedx]

What do you guys think of online language courses? I stumbled upon livemocha.com (http://livemocha.com) and I'm kinda looking for some second opinions on it. It seems to take a social network approach to language learning.

[Neutral_pH]

IMO online courses do help to a certain extend, covering the basics and all that, but its usefulness is really limited if you want to be fluent in that language. The only way to be fluent in languages is to read in that language and speak a lot with native speakers. Another thing is that a language evolves everyday. There are new words being added constantly, and the problem is that you won't know about all this words unless you speak frequently with those people. Dictionaries are of no help in this area, since the add-ons are too numerous to list down, and there's no exact meaning to these words. Furthermore you also need to pronounce the words in a correct way or else you might confuse , or worse , anger people.

For example, in French, the words "quand" and "con" have almost the same pronunciation but they mean 2 totally different things. "quand" = when while "con"= idiot/stupid. So be careful!

I am not implying that online courses are useless. They're great for beginners, but if you really want to be fluent in a particular language, or at least be a coherent speaker, then the only way is by practise. No choice!

[henry_yew]

Et voila! Mon amis! Mon dieu!

Respondez s'il vous plait.

Comment allez vous?

Merci bouceaup (unsure of spelling).

Au revoir!

Heh, what limited French I have.

[joofei]

I have a two sisters(Papa had two wives) who are French but never got the chance to learn from them...

[Neutral_pH]

I have a two sisters(Papa had two wives) who are French but never got the chance to learn from them...

That's nice....but I supposed they didn't learn Malay,English, Mandarin or Tamil?

[chongkeat]

Respondez s'il vous plait.

Comment allez vous?

Ah, the only two French phrases that I know..... (That, and foie gras)
But I kinda forgot the meaning of the second phrase (Comment allez vous); is it like "How are you"?
And is it pronounced like "coumon allei vu"?

I'm kinda blur-blur......

[davidchak]

Comment allez vous should sound like

Como Taleh vous

[henry_yew]

When I was in Paris, a Cantonese restaurateur jokingly said that if you have problems pronouncing that sentence (Comment allez vous), you can practise using the following Cantonese sentence:

"Kam man ta lou fu." (今晚打老虎) Translated it means "Tonight hunt tiger."

LOL

[vikraman]

tigres ? Paris! Sacr? bleu! Bien que la chasse est ill?gale en France :P

[henry_yew]

Hunting illegal in France? Who cares? LOL

*digress digress*

[stupidboy]

I find that French is quite nice and interesting to learn. To reply to the first post, the best way to learn a foreign language is to go to that country to learn it.

Comparing German and French I can't really say which one is easier cause I never learned German before. I've met a German before and she told me that, for her, English is way easier than French cause the English structures(sentences, grammar and all, not very sure though) is similar to those of German. As for French it's not at all the same with all its grammatical rules, etc. So from what she said means that if you know English, it'll be easier for you to learn German than French. But actually still depends on the person though.

P/S : French is the principal language used in the Olympics. :D
It was like this in Beijing : "MALAISIE...MALAYSIA...馬來西亞"

[henry_yew]

Comparing German and French I can't really say which one is easier cause I never learned German before. I've met a German before and she told me that, for her, English is way easier than French cause the English structures(sentences, grammar and all, not very sure though) is similar to those of German. As for French it's not at all the same with all its grammatical rules, etc. So from what she said means that if you know English, it'll be easier for you to learn German than French. But actually still depends on the person though.


Actually, if you understand the structure of English, German shouldn't be so tough, especially since it is easier to picture how German words are pronounced. French words, on the other hand, do not have a system on how to pronounce their words.

How would we know that words bearing -eau would be pronounced as "ou" in French, when most likely Malaysians might pronounce it as "eh-ah-u". And how many would know that "moi" is pronounced as "mua" if you have not been told so?

[chongkeat]

As for German, here's what I know for now:
Z - pronunciation is switched with "S", vice versa
A - pronounced "ah" or "aa"
Actually, a lot of the letters can be pronounced like Bahasa Melayu
EU - pronounced "oi"
J - pronunciation is switched with "Y", not vice versa

That's all I can come up with.....

It was like this in Beijing : "MALAISIE...MALAYSIA...馬來西亞"
Oh, yeah. I sat for a couple of hours in front of the TV just to see that....

[leegraham]

You can go for French or Spanish languages. These are most demandable these days

[vikraman]

English is after all a Germanic language having been brought to the British Isles by the marauding Saxons coming from the Upper Rhine area led by none other than William the Conqueror in 1066. It's marriage with the pre-existing Gaelic and Celtic languages (spoken until today by the Scots and it's variant Welsh by the Welsh peoples) produced English.

<digression> For around 50 years in the 19th century Britain and Germany were a united kingdom as Henry the something (Honestly, I can't be expected to remember) was called back to serve as the king of Hannover as there was no heir to the throne. The claim was traced all the way back to William the Conqueror lol. Oh and btw, before King George V changed the name of the royal family to Windsor it was known as Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. (German influence perhaps? *sarcasm*)<digression>

[stupidboy]

How would we know that words bearing -eau would be pronounced as "ou" in French, when most likely Malaysians might pronounce it as "eh-ah-u". And how many would know that "moi" is pronounced as "mua" if you have not been told so?

Yeah, but if you already know all these pronunciations, you'll most likely be able to pronounce all the other words except the exceptional ones. As for pronunciations like "quand" and "con" that were stated earlier by Neutral_pH, I agree that they're a little similar but there's still a difference between both pronunciations. And normally you won't be mistaken for it.

[anid]

may i know where we could find foreign language classes in KL?

[chocomaniac]

To me, I think visiting the country would probably be the best to learn/improve one's foreign language as one gets the chance to speak with the ppl of that particular language everyday...hehe

However, for those who can't afford to travel, I would suggest to listen and understand that particular foreign language. With advance science and technology, one can even find the meaning and pronounciation in the internet. You can also join language clubs or societies to improve your fluency of a foreign language...

[cuppycake]

To me, I think visiting the country would probably be the best to learn/improve one's foreign language as one gets the chance to speak with the ppl of that particular language everyday...hehe

However, for those who can't afford to travel, I would suggest to listen and understand that particular foreign language. With advance science and technology, one can even find the meaning and pronounciation in the internet. You can also join language clubs or societies to improve your fluency of a foreign language...

yeah, visiting the country is probably the best way.but to those who cant afford, there's plenty of free podcasts teaching foreign languages (ie chinesepod, frenchpod,spanishpod. all you have to do is find them. and listen to songs and watch movies, dramas in the said language.

last but not least, motivate yourself.

[muhdshah91]

jst luv animes n manga(though its in eng),
embolden my courage to learn japanese,i've been into it 4 almost 2 months, n yeay, japanese is much easier tht ones could expect,indeed,
am goin to give a profoundly fascination to learn som other languanges, arabic n korean..yern to be native speaker(albeit its hard to achieve, yet perseverance really is somthn, it would drives us to success as though we put zeal into everything)
lol, its turning to long-winded motivational talks somehow..

[nemosmknimh]

As for German, here's what I know for now:
Z - pronunciation is switched with "S", vice versa
A - pronounced "ah" or "aa"
Actually, a lot of the letters can be pronounced like Bahasa Melayu
EU - pronounced "oi"
J - pronunciation is switched with "Y", not vice versa

That's all I can come up with.....


Oh, yeah. I sat for a couple of hours in front of the TV just to see that....


ah(A) bei(b) sei(c) dei(D) ae(E) ef(F) gay(G) ha(H) yot(j) ka(K) el(L) em(M) en(N) o(O)pi(P) qu(Q) err(R) es(S) tei(T) uu(U) fau(v) vei(w) upsilon(y) set(z)

and a o u got another letters with umlaut(double dot on top) which requires diff pronunciation)

the pronunciation is kinda like that....
hehehehe ignore the capital and small letter...

Volkswagen should be prnounced as Folksvagen
it is made for the folks there(and once was very cheap)

Wein is pronounced as wain or wine(meaning wine)
and Wien is prononouced as wiin(long i)

so you can actually pronounced it after learning the letters.....
hehehehehe
and all nouns in german must be in capital letter for the first letter

[nickvl]

guten tag! Ich bin nickvl.... LOL (trans: Good day! i am nickvl)

so looking forward to it...
p/s : u can learn a new language at Livemocha! Just go to www.livemocha.com...its cool u can listen to the audio and learn how to pronounce the words...

[nemosmknimh]

guten tag! Ich bin nickvl.... LOL (trans: Good day! i am nickvl)

so looking forward to it...
p/s : u can learn a new language at Livemocha! Just go to www.livemocha.com...its (http://www.livemocha.com...its) cool u can listen to the audio and learn how to pronounce the words...



i thought guten tag is good afternoon.....
guten morgen=good morning
guten abend=good nite

[nickvl]

really? whoops....hehe...

[nemosmknimh]

really? whoops....hehe...


that was what my lehrerin(frau hamidah now a lecturer in institut bahasa antarabangsa) taught me

[cuppycake]

that was what my lehrerin(frau hamidah now a lecturer in institut bahasa antarabangsa) taught me

but i Google-ed, and the meaning of guten tag is good day. maybe good afternoon is the formal meaning? but good day is the colloquial meaning?

[nemosmknimh]

but i Google-ed, and the meaning of guten tag is good day. maybe good afternoon is the formal meaning? but good day is the colloquial meaning?


maybe so
haish
my german is rusting
my last german class was end of form 4
even last year my lehrer suddenly asked me to gave a german speech,i was stuttered....
and please.....i just know basic deutsch.....
hehehehe

[Athersin]

As Malaysians, we have a real edge in learning languages because most of us start off already knowing three very different languages. Often we have an inferiority complex because we are always worse than the native speakers of all the languages we are taught at school, but the truth is that just by knowing the languages we do know to the extent that we know them gives us some entry into many other languages in the world.

I've been learning French recently and have been pleasantly surprised to find how close it is to English, which is not even a Romance language.

Just as an example, in school, one is always told not to translate word for word from Malay to English because that results in very funny things on your exam script but rather to think in English. Transliterating from English to French, one is right 90% of the time. It's quite amazing.

Also amazing was that the supposedly very bright students at the well-known uni I'm at (where I took the French classes) are on the whole poorer language learners than your average Malaysian in secondary school. They make all the same mistakes - and more.

[Ikmisje]

Okay, I am currently learning Dutch and German. I was a bit hesistant at first because learning two languages at once could be quite a hassle (esp these two Germanic languages are similar in a lot ways), but I have decided to give it a try as the Dutch saying goes “Niet geschoten is altijd mis.” [means: if u do not try, u will never have a chance]... So as a beginner, I have books borrowed from my uni library, books and CDs downloaded from the net. I tend to find Germanic languages easier than French or Spanish (and thanks goodness, I am not interested in them as well)

I try to focus on written Dutch and German before I proceed to speaking and pronounciations. The best way to lean a new foreign language is (like many mentioned) live in that particular country where everything u see in sight and hear is that language (interacting with the native speakers works the best)

Learning Dutch started off for some really stupid and personal reasons. Loving that country, people, culture and language all happened because of a guy. However, my efforts put in picking up German is a way to prepare myself to study and travel in German one day.

[bush]

As Malaysians, we have a real edge in learning languages because most of us start off already knowing three very different languages. Often we have an inferiority complex because we are always worse than the native speakers of all the languages we are taught at school, but the truth is that just by knowing the languages we do know to the extent that we know them gives us some entry into many other languages in the world.

I've been learning French recently and have been pleasantly surprised to find how close it is to English, which is not even a Romance language.

Just as an example, in school, one is always told not to translate word for word from Malay to English because that results in very funny things on your exam script but rather to think in English. Transliterating from English to French, one is right 90% of the time. It's quite amazing.

Also amazing was that the supposedly very bright students at the well-known uni I'm at (where I took the French classes) are on the whole poorer language learners than your average Malaysian in secondary school. They make all the same mistakes - and more.

French is not close to English. English is close to French. That is because middle and modern English were influenced by french(oil language) when England was conquered by the Normans. English is an amalgam of French and German. The original English doesn't look like anything we know today.

[myra]

French is not close to English. English is close to French. That is because middle and modern English were influenced by french(oil language) when England was conquered by the Normans. English is an amalgam of French and German. The original English doesn't look like anything we know today.



ou really..?? i am interested to learn french as i've already learned the languange when i was in secondary school..but i learn it for 3 years..but i can't speak french, just for basic word instead.
I wanna learn more n wanna speak fluently in french..

[bush]

Cantonese is a piece of cake if you know Mandarin. It is just a dialect, not a language. Basically, it share similiar grammer with Mandarin.

If you are serious about learning a new foreign language, it is better to attend class where you can really learn..There 'll be teacher so you can always seek for guidance. Of course, songs and drama may help, but not as effective as attending a class.

Cantonese is a language on its own. 粤语

ou really..?? i am interested to learn french as i've already learned the languange when i was in secondary school..but i learn it for 3 years..but i can't speak french, just for basic word instead.
I wanna learn more n wanna speak fluently in french..

Speaking is always a problem, at least for me. I think in English, conjugate the verbs then speak in french. Not easy for me.

I do way better in writing and reading.

You just have to live in a francophone community if you want to improve. Getting a copain/copine, petit(e) ami(e) or chum/blonde works too.....

[myra]

Cantonese is a language on its own. 粤语



Speaking is always a problem, at least for me. I think in English, conjugate the verbs then speak in french. Not easy for me.

I do way better in writing and reading.

You just have to live in a francophone community if you want to improve. Getting a copain/copine, petit(e) ami(e) or chum/blonde works too.....


ya...french is quite hard to learn..but the pronounciation is not to hard..
i tried to learn this languange by my own..heh,,
btw..i don't really have big confident to speak in english too..but i can write and read english books..,,how can i improve it?
i wanna prepare for the interview that will be held in english!

[BattleBoyz]

ya...french is quite hard to learn..but the pronounciation is not to hard..
i tried to learn this languange by my own..heh,,
btw..i don't really have big confident to speak in english too..but i can write and read english books..,,how can i improve it?
i wanna prepare for the interview that will be held in english!

I think we are both on the same boat. I, too can write and read well but not speak. Maybe we should start to talk to ourselves in front of the mirror although its a bit awkward to do so. :P

[Nicholasng925]

I think we are both on the same boat. I, too can write and read well but not speak. Maybe we should start to talk to ourselves in front of the mirror although its a bit awkward to do so. :P

It's one of the most effective ways to upgrade your English speaking skill though. At least that applies to me. :)

[nickvl]

One of the things I've always wanted to do was to learn a new language. I got my wish, but it wasn't exactly what I thought I would do. Someday perhaps I might still pick up French...

Learning German or Deutsch is hmmm....in terms of pronouncing is not all that difficult but listening to a native speaker is hell for me. Funnily though, throught Deutsch grammar, I finally realised what nouns and verbs and conjugation, that my primary school English teachers taught, are :P

One thing though, it's difficult to think in English and translate...

[fastreaderX]

i think the simple way to learn a foreign language is you must read,write,listen and speak a lot.

[yanno_yamster]

Cantonese is a language on its own. 粤语

Eh, really? Then how about Hokkien, Hakka, etc...?

[fastreaderX]

Eh, really? Then how about Hokkien, Hakka, etc...?

ya lor...I think Cantonese is one of the dialects too.

[bush]

Eh, really? Then how about Hokkien, Hakka, etc...?

Hokkien is part of min, 闽. Which is a language on its own. Hakka can be considered as a separate language too.

This situation is similar to Spain(and France) where you have Catalan, Basque, Castilian, Galician etc

[alter_ego]

i wish to learn japanese.
i have 2 brothers that can speak fluently in this language, but they never ever teach me.
and keep on saying that mother tounge is the best.

[bush]

The Star Education pullout published an article on learning new languages today......

http://thestar.com.my/education/story.asp?file=/2010/4/18/education/6063926&sec=education

[stupidboy]

Hokkien is part of min, 闽. Which is a language on its own. Hakka can be considered as a separate language too.

This situation is similar to Spain(and France) where you have Catalan, Basque, Castilian, Galician etc

Personally, I would consider all of this as dialects. A language is what everyone speaks compared to a dialect where only a certain amount of people in a certain area speaks. I'll give some examples to better explain this:

In Spain, only people in Barcelona speak Catalan and the people in some northern region (I forgot where and am lazy to search for it) speak Basque, but all Spaniards speak Spanish. So Spanish is a language and the others are all dialects.

In France, I can only think of a dialect for the moment and it's Alsatian. Only people in Alsace speak this dialect. Some of the kids nowadays only know a few words of it. But everyone here speaks French. In southern and nothern France, there are the so-called southern and northern accents respectively. As the name indicates, they're actually French with their own accents. In conclusion, French is a language and Alsatian is a dialect.

In China, there are all those dialects that you all know so well of (including Shanghai dialect, Sichuan dialect, etc.). But what they all learn at school is Mandarin. So it's the same conclusion here.

In Japan, there is the well known Osaka "ben" for Detective Conan fans. They (Japanese) call it a dialect but it's actually more like an accent. Again, everyone in Japan speaks Japanese so it's a language and the Osaka "ben" that only Osaka residents speak is a dialect.

Hope that clears all the misunderstandings between languages and dialects. :)

[bush]

Personally, I would consider all of this as dialects. A language is what everyone speaks compared to a dialect where only a certain amount of people in a certain area speaks. I'll give some examples to better explain this:

In Spain, only people in Barcelona speak Catalan and the people in some northern region (I forgot where and am lazy to search for it) speak Basque, but all Spaniards speak Spanish. So Spanish is a language and the others are all dialects.

In France, I can only think of a dialect for the moment and it's Alsatian. Only people in Alsace speak this dialect. Some of the kids nowadays only know a few words of it. But everyone here speaks French. In southern and nothern France, there are the so-called southern and northern accents respectively. As the name indicates, they're actually French with their own accents. In conclusion, French is a language and Alsatian is a dialect.

In China, there are all those dialects that you all know so well of (including Shanghai dialect, Sichuan dialect, etc.). But what they all learn at school is Mandarin. So it's the same conclusion here.

In Japan, there is the well known Osaka "ben" for Detective Conan fans. They (Japanese) call it a dialect but it's actually more like an accent. Again, everyone in Japan speaks Japanese so it's a language and the Osaka "ben" that only Osaka residents speak is a dialect.

Hope that clears all the misunderstandings between languages and dialects. :)

That's how you see it but it's not how it is.

Catalan is not a dialect. Say that in Barcelona and you'll likely get shot. Not all Spaniards speak spanish either.

Cantonese(Yue) is not a dialect. It's a language in it's own right. Within it, you have Taishanese etc etc. The Wu language of which shanghainese is a dialect of is a language in it's own right. So is Suzhou-nese a dialect of Wu.

So please stop confusing people.

[stupidboy]

That's how you see it but it's not how it is.

Catalan is not a dialect. Say that in Barcelona and you'll likely get shot. Not all Spaniards speak spanish either.

Cantonese(Yue) is not a dialect. It's a language in it's own right. Within it, you have Taishanese etc etc. The Wu language of which shanghainese is a dialect of is a language in it's own right. So is Suzhou-nese a dialect of Wu.

So please stop confusing people.

Before accusing someone of confusing people, you might as well give us some arguments to your stated points. I, on the other hand, gave some examples.

Definitions:
language (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/language)
dialect (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dialect)
A variety of a language peculiar to a particular region or group within a larger community, usually but not always existing in the spoken form only.

May I ask how you write Cantonese or Hokkien or Hakka? Using Chinese characters which are recognised in the world as the official way of writing Mandarin. In other words, what I called dialects use the characters from Mandarin. They don't have their own form of writing. Alsatian only exists in spoken form to the contrary of Catalan.

It's true that you might get punched in the face in Barcelona for saying that Catalan is a dialect, but that is only because they're proud of their language and that they're not open-minded enough to accept it as a dialect. It's the same for calling a Basque a Spaniard. I've met some before. Before I knew where they come from, I heard them speaking Spanish so I asked if they were from Spain. They replied "NO!" and said that they were from Basque. Wonderful...

By the way, I'm NOT from Malaysia but I'm from Sarawak. :)

Anyway, could I please have some examples of Spaniards who don't speak Spanish?

That's how I see it from my understanding of the differences between the definition of the words "language" and "dialect".

Another way to see it is that every existing languages and dialects are actually dialects and they were all derived from the only language ever existed :

CAVE PAINTINGS!! :P

[kinon]

I have been trying to learn 5 different languages german, french, mandarin, japanese and arabic but i never reach even a sentence in any of these language.... I wonder if i do need to write them down and say them rather than just read and hear.

I'm also trying to learn russian language(slavik) and hindi language. I hope someone can help me master them please really need to know the details to study them! Oh btw youtube is one of the best learning source for language truly thankful for it :D

[kaze]

I have been trying to learn 5 different languages german, french, mandarin, japanese and arabic but i never reach even a sentence in any of these language.... I wonder if i do need to write them down and say them rather than just read and hear.

I'm also trying to learn russian language(slavik) and hindi language. I hope someone can help me master them please really need to know the details to study them! Oh btw youtube is one of the best learning source for language truly thankful for it :D

I'm studying Japanese, and I'd like to share about learning Japanese. When you read Japanese, do you only read romaji? I would say that it's much easier if you learn hiragana and katakana first. By doing this, you'll become more familiar with the sound system. Besides, it'll be easier to understand how particles (no, wa, ga, ni, etc) work in constructing sentences. Romaji does not represent these well, and they are not really standardized, so sometimes you'll be confused by romaji.

If you already learned hiragana and katakana, then you're on the right track. If you're interested on how to read Japanese, learning kanji along the way is pretty fun too. You don't have to know all kanji characters, just pick up the most commonly used kanji will be good enough for a starter.

After that, learn particles first. They are really important. Only when you understand how to use these particles that you'll be able to make sentences. Of course, you'd have to learn a set of vocabulary too :)
After that, study different sentence structure, how to say the same thing in different ways.

I'd say that learning a language requires a person to listen and speak. Try to repeat what you heard, make your own sentences and say them, and make simple conversations with others.

I hope this answered your question a bit.

[kinon]

I'm studying Japanese, and I'd like to share about learning Japanese. When you read Japanese, do you only read romaji? I would say that it's much easier if you learn hiragana and katakana first. By doing this, you'll become more familiar with the sound system. Besides, it'll be easier to understand how particles (no, wa, ga, ni, etc) work in constructing sentences. Romaji does not represent these well, and they are not really standardized, so sometimes you'll be confused by romaji.

If you already learned hiragana and katakana, then you're on the right track. If you're interested on how to read Japanese, learning kanji along the way is pretty fun too. You don't have to know all kanji characters, just pick up the most commonly used kanji will be good enough for a starter.

After that, learn particles first. They are really important. Only when you understand how to use these particles that you'll be able to make sentences. Of course, you'd have to learn a set of vocabulary too :)
After that, study different sentence structure, how to say the same thing in different ways.

I'd say that learning a language requires a person to listen and speak. Try to repeat what you heard, make your own sentences and say them, and make simple conversations with others.

I hope this answered your question a bit.

Thanks kaze you help me greatly :). I didn't learn the details on japanese language rather i learn the vocabulary that is use in modern day interaction. For example, school = gakko and some sentences, But nevertheless, it widens my perspective on nihongo so thank you.

Now the only problem (well for now) is how long will it take till a person can write and say those sentences from a beginner's point. 3 months? 3 weeks? 3 years? >.<

[kaze]

Thanks kaze you help me greatly . I didn't learn the details on japanese language rather i learn the vocabulary that is use in modern day interaction. For example, school = gakko and some sentences, But nevertheless, it widens my perspective on nihongo so thank you.

Now the only problem (well for now) is how long will it take till a person can write and say those sentences from a beginner's point. 3 months? 3 weeks? 3 years? >.<

You're very much welcome. I'm glad I can help.

To write hiragana and katakana won't take that long. I mastered hiragana in less than 2 weeks. Katakana took me longer than that because I lack the motivation. :P Kanji is surprisingly more fun to me, but it's hard to learn how to write kanji correctly from websites, which reminds me-- If you're planning to learn how to write in Japanese, please make sure to learn the stroke order and the ending before you attempt to write. Once you had the wrong stroke order and ending, it's REALLY REALLY hard to correct them.

When I first begin studying Japanese, I knew only simple sentences like noun + particle + noun + coupla verb (ie. watashi wa gakusei desu). Then, the sentences get longer and longer. To be able to make longer sentences, well, it depends on how you study, I guess. It took me around 3 months to understand particles wa, ga, ni, to, (w)o, no, de, ka, yo, and ne. There are a few other particles, but I'm not there yet.

I'm not fluent yet, I don't think I'll be fluent in the next few months. But now, I'm learning how to say the same meaning in different ways in Japanese.

[kinon]

kaze i feel like your trying to master the japanese language itself. Wow i'm very impress! its not easy to learn them, i just wanted to learn so i can speak sentences to make sense. But now i feel like i want to the same :D. Starting tomorrow(or tomorow's tomorrow) I'll begin to study languages more seriously.

I do have a good website that contains learning japanese language if you want i can post them that is if can? Anyway, I only learn to write katakana i think its the first form of japenese writing (now forgot so long ago did) i'll try to learn them back and move to the other stages of writing. Going to be a long 3 months for me to learn them though.. but i suppose it will be exciting

[kaze]

Kinon,

Please share the website that you mentioned before on this thread. I'm sure many other recommers will find it helpful too.

Note that Recom has a few threads dedicated for those who want to learn Japanese. The threads contain notes and FAQs, posts by Luke are especially helpful. Of course, you also can post your own question if you ever have doubt.
HERE (http://www.recom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1163) is the link to one of them. :))

Wishing you all the best in learning languages.

[daoss]

try livemocha.com
it helps me alot

[poohshao]

i am not so ''ambitious'' to learn foreign language
i m only interested in learning Tamil ( i m a chinese guy btw)
Tamil seems to me is a very interesting and unique language
any idea how n where to start?

[kinon]

kaze thanks! then i will post it here (http://www.nihongoresources.com/language/lessons.html) it took me a while to find this website. And btw an extra for generality of languages here (http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/index.html) it has its own forum as well and plus side alot of aspiring polyglot(people that can talk in many languages) often go there to discuss i think. And don't worry both are free and good. Also they do mention about pimsleur guide to language is also good.

daos thanks for the info i've heard of livemocha before i'll try and use it.
poohshao that's quite the interest if you want try the websites that been stated here and try to use youtube and wikipedia to its full use :) good luck!

[vampiric_guy_01]

wow.... such a long post here.... i'm currently learning German aka. Deutsch 2nd semester as well as doing my A levels...

Hi , and nice to meet you guys ^^

[iAdoreNaz]

I'm currently learning Korean Language ( Hangeul ).
Can read . Not fluent, and cannot understand the meaning yet.
=].

[Laavania]

i am not so ''ambitious'' to learn foreign language
i m only interested in learning Tamil ( i m a chinese guy btw)
Tamil seems to me is a very interesting and unique language
any idea how n where to start?

Nice to hear this from a Chinese guy when many Indian them self neglecting to learn their own language.I am a Indian girl and i managed to learn mandarin from dramas and movies.I am sure it would work the same way for you.Books may help but only for a certain extend.

[AlternateF4]

Learning in another language allows you to think in a different perspective, what say you guys? :P
I don't write the same content for the same essay in different languages(eg, bm, chinese, bi)

[iKoMetaga]

If any of you harbor a long-term interest in learning a new language, one of the most effective methods is through taking these steps:

1) Learn the grammar, syntax, semantics etc through formal classes. Duration depends on intensity of classes, relative difficulty of language and...natural talent ;-p
Anyway this usually takes 1-2 years
2) Stay in the native country of that language. This is called full immersion. Do not permit yourself to speak in any other language other than theirs. If possible, think in that language too. The longer you stay in the country, the more fluent you will be. But minimum 6 months.

This is based on an experimental training camp conducted by the US government to make its soldiers fluent in Arabic post-9/11. The fluency rates were very high indeed.

Problems with this method:
1) Staying in a different country for 6 months is an expensive price to pay just to learn a new language. One could do this concurrently if studying/working overseas, but then it defeats the greater purpose, i.e. to only speak their native language and none other
2) In countries where English (or any other language you are proficient in) literacy rates are poor, people you interact with may attempt to improve their own levels of, in this case, English, through learning from you. Again, counter-productive.

[kaze]

Agree with what you stated, except this one:


Staying in a different country for 6 months is an expensive price to pay just to learn a new language. One could do this concurrently if studying/working overseas, but then it defeats the greater purpose, i.e. to only speak their native language and none other


If one is studying/working overseas, he/she should be able to be fluent in the native language since he/she would have had to interact with other people in their daily routines.

The problem with our scholars sent overseas is that they usually do not interact with the native speakers. Instead, they tend to live as a group of Malaysian student;, and always conversing in other languages (i.e. Malay, Mandarin) with each other, which in turn, defeats the purpose of why they are sent to study overseas.

[iKoMetaga]

Agree with what you stated, except this one:



If one is studying/working overseas, he/she should be able to be fluent in the native language since he/she would have had to interact with other people in their daily routines.

The problem with our scholars sent overseas is that they usually do not interact with the native speakers. Instead, they tend to live as a group of Malaysian student;, and always conversing in other languages (i.e. Malay, Mandarin) with each other, which in turn, defeats the purpose of why they are sent to study overseas.

Oops yes you are right, that doesn't make any sense. Well, maybe there are exceptions in countries where a non-native language becomes the lingua franca. But I can't seem to think of any examples off the top of my head, so they must be rare indeed lol

Yeah I agree that scholars sent overseas need to step out of their comfort zone and make themselves more approachable to the local community. As long as nothing is compromised (values, religion, friendship) then why not?

[iAdoreNaz]

Guys, watch this video.
q3_6lyYDMiE&feature=player_embedded

In my opinion, everyone wants to learn a new language.
As for me, I know how to speak Malay & English, with a lil bit of chinese and I want to learn Korean. I think this also apply to everyone ;). Right? ^^

[stupidboy]

Yeah I agree that scholars sent overseas need to step out of their comfort zone and make themselves more approachable to the local community. As long as nothing is compromised (values, religion, friendship) then why not?

The problem with our scholars sent overseas is that they usually do not interact with the native speakers. Instead, they tend to live as a group of Malaysian student;, and always conversing in other languages (i.e. Malay, Mandarin) with each other, which in turn, defeats the purpose of why they are sent to study overseas.

Logically speaking, sending scholars to the overseas is for them to learn a new culture (experience different working styles, different way of thinking, etc) and not for the sole purpose of learning a new language.

From the way I see it, some of our scholars are not open-minded enough. They like to compare Malaysia with the foreign country they are in. These scholars will normally complain a lot, saying "in Malaysia it is like this (better), whereas here it is like that (worse)". This is also the reason why they stay in their group of Malaysians. They are trapped in their own little box, unable to step out into the brave new world.

Some of them just need a few years to adapt to the new culture, others...are...sadly...incurable...

Anyway, staying in a little group of Malaysians does have its own benefit: keeping your own language (Malay, English, etc) fluency intact. But you should not stay in the same group all the time. Interacting with the local community does help a lot in improving your grasp in a foreign language.

In response to the bolded sentence, kaze, you will be surprised that the amount of scholars who do not interact with the native speakers is actually very little compared to those who do interact. Well, that is at least from what I can see.

[kaze]

Logically speaking, sending scholars to the overseas is for them to learn a new culture (experience different working styles, different way of thinking, etc) and not for the sole purpose of learning a new language.

In response to the bolded sentence, kaze, you will be surprised that the amount of scholars who do not interact with the native speakers is actually very little compared to those who do interact. Well, that is at least from what I can see.

I am not saying that learning a new language is the sole purpose of sending scholars overseas, but I do believe part of the reasons why they send scholars to some English-speaking countries is so that these students will be much more fluent when communicating in English. I do agree that the whole different cultural experience, working style, quality of academics, etc are also the reasons why they send scholars to overseas.

My statement before about the group of scholars which does not interact with the local community is only a generalization, it does not apply to all scholars studying overseas. I didn't mean to say that this group is larger than the other, but I recognize this as a problem.