Engineering

[CyberJaya]

Hi there. I was wondering if you guys would share your thoughts on this field. Career Prospects, Demand, Salaries, etc. I also heard that the degree will be out of date three years after graduation. Is that true or is it balony? Is there a chance of getting into mainstream electronic engineering with a degree in computer engineering? thanks.

[phantom]

IMHO,that's the most boring major in the entire face of earth..LOL

[naturesimple]

my sister is doing her masters in E&E in UTM. n i know only the salary part...degree graduate's salary is approximately rm2800 n of course masters graduate higher ... a little bit only...
but for some companies they pay same amount of salaries to degree garduate n masters graduate....dunno y... but the latter 1 have advantage in naik pangkat la definately.

[CyberJaya]

thanks for the salary. Can you study for a masters in electronic engineering having studied a bachelors in computer engineering?

[gohweihan]

According to some sources I heard, Computer Engineering is like a combination of Electronics Engineering with Computer Science. So it might just be possible to do so.

Anyway, my friend's brother is taking a degree in E&E after he got a CE diploma. Not sure whether it's possible in the case of a Masters degree though.

[thesoothsayer]

thanks for the salary. Can you study for a masters in electronic engineering having studied a bachelors in computer engineering?

Yes, you can. Shouldn't be that much of a problem switching between EE and CE. I did my BEng in EE but during the course of studies I realised I had an interest in working more towards software engineering so I completed my Master's degree working on a networking project which had both elements of programming and hardware.

I also heard that the degree will be out of date three years after graduation. Is that true or is it balony? Is there a chance of getting into mainstream electronic engineering with a degree in computer engineering? thanks.

Out of date within 3 years? You'll be out of date right after you graduate. ;) It reallly depends on how you look at it. Usually, courses in the universities teach you the fundamentals of the subjects but how you apply it in the working world depends on your job. For instance, you learn microprocessor architecture in university but that usually covers relatively basic 8088 or 68000 architecture. It doesn't teach you about the way more complex processors that are out in the market today but you need to relate what you have learned in school and apply your knowledge to the newer designs.

How do you define mainstream electronic engineering? If you are talking about IC design then I know of UTM friends from CE doing IC design work in Intel and other MNCs. I'm an EE graduate currently working as a software engineer. Do you consider software engineering as a "mainstream" EE job? :)

I feel a degree is something that shows prospective employers that you are competent enough to learn and work in jobs which require a tertiary level of education and not a restriction on what you do for the rest of your life. :)

So, if you are really, really sure that you want to work in a field that is specifically EE related then by all means go for the EE degree. Otherwise, if you are in another major in a university that does not allow you to change your major (most local public universities), then you can always study up on your own interest in your spare time. :)

[CyberJaya]

What is the demand for Electronic engineers in Malaysia and abroad nowadays?

[thesoothsayer]

What is the demand for Electronic engineers in Malaysia and abroad nowadays?

There's always demand for good engineers. Can't think of any other way to put it. :)

You always read about lots of unemployed graduates with engineering degrees but I'm also sure that you've read that there is a huge demand for engineers. Can both of these statements be true? Yes, it can.

There is a huge demand for good and competent engineers while many people with engineering degrees could be just be not good enough for the job or do not have the skill set to match the requirements. Recently, my department wanted to hire some new candidates. Over 1k resumes were screen and only 3 people were hired after numerous rounds of interviews. We still have openings but the managers deemed that most of the interviewees did not match the job requirements.

[CyberJaya]

I cant believe that 1000 candidates were screened for three vacancies. It seems like there is way too much competition for places in electronic engineering?

[thesoothsayer]

Hmm... I think you are reading this wrongly.
1. We hired only 3 out of a thousand when we need more. Still many unfilled racks.

2. If all the first, let's say, 100 candidates matched all the requirements, they would have chosen the ones that we needed to hire from them rather than wasting time screening all the resumes and conducting interviews.

My point is this - opportunities exist if you are good enough and meet the requirements even though there are many other engineering graduates out there.

[aquila]

haiya... if all you're concerned about is making money... trying taking up economics, with a concentration in finance...

my phd friend.. doing his phD in econs... was offered $100,000 a year with 20% bonus from morgan stanley... he didn't even have to apply for the job.. the recruiters just came to duke to ask for a prospective employee...

plus... his prof said this is in the lower end of things... you can get more!!!

[CyberJaya]

I'm looking for opportunities more than money.

[chenchow]

Cyberjaya, I think in terms of opportunities, there will be a lot of opportunities in anything you are going to do, if you can have a niche of yourself in something, be it in terms of soft skills or technical skills. You need to be the best person in something, and that would help you a lot in getting what you hope to get.

Perform beyond expectations and impress others should be the main thing and you need to be very adaptable and be very flexible. If you can do that, opportunities will come your way.

For instance, I did a presentation for one of my class, Entrepreneurship, and I manage to impress the grader (who is a CEO in Silicon Valley and a consultant of many start-ups there ) and after my presentation, he asked me to send him my resume and after I send in, his response was "Tell me what kind of job you want and I will get one for you". I was not looking for job and I already had plans for my summer, but this is to illustrate that if you are doing well, you will be able to get lots of opportunities.

[CyberJaya]

.

For instance, I did a presentation for one of my class, Entrepreneurship, and I manage to impress the grader (who is a CEO in Silicon Valley and a consultant of many start-ups there ) and after my presentation, he asked me to send him my resume and after I send in, his response was "Tell me what kind of job you want and I will get one for you". I was not looking for job and I already had plans for my summer, but this is to illustrate that if you are doing well, you will be able to get lots of opportunities.

I would guess that out of all the people in your class you were the only one that was impressive enough for him to do that. Not everybody is going to have that level of impact as much as we wish we can and as hard as we try.

[CyberJaya]

How much would a computer aided engineering degree be useful in the field of electronics?

[thesoothsayer]

That's why it's important to do what you love and not what you think would have the best opportunities for employment.

If you aren't doing a job you love you'll probably be disillusioned with it and under-perform after doing it for a while. Then you'll have problems keeping your job.

If you do something you love, most likely you'll find that you'll perform above your own expectations and be happy most of the time. Best of luck in deciding your career. :)

[thesoothsayer]

How much would a computer aided engineering degree be useful in the field of electronics?

Could you please clarify exactly what do you have in mind here? :)

[CyberJaya]

well the degree contains elements of mechanical engineering with courses in Cad.
Heres a link to the actual course.
http://www.eng.qmul.ac.uk/undergrad/ca-eng/CAEng-Intro.htm
I was just wondering if you could get a job in Electronics with this degree?

[CyberJaya]

I'm also interested in mechatronics but i'm not sure how relevent a degree in Mechatronics would be in the job market. If i do have an interest then i would say that it is mechatronics.

[chenchow]

Cyberjaya, I have seen that you have been tossing around with various majors for the past month and it is good that you are trying to see which majors would suit you better. However, I would like to say that it is not what you learn that matters most, but what skill you will have. I have seen many people with Electrical Engineering major becoming a financial analyst with Investment Bankers. There is always some correlation between various majors and I would say that it is important for you to learn and practice on how to apply your knowledge into real world usage.

I fully agree with thesoothsayer "If you do something you love, most likely you'll find that you'll perform above your own expectations and be happy most of the time". No one can be perfect. We just need to perform to the best of our ability and hopefully we can shine in some aspects.

[MEW_MEW]

may i know what Electronic n elcectrical engineering and computer engineering actually are? Are there a future in EE engineering and computer engineering? what does a professional in these discipline do?what kind of ppl would excel in EE engineering n computer engineering?Any University recommendation in malaysia or singapore for Electronic n elcectrical engineering and computer engineering?thanks you.

[chenchow]

I think basically it depends on how a university names it. However, electronics could be including all those solid state stuff. Electrical will be generally more broad based and it does not only limit to power sourcing.

I would think that the field of Electrical, Electronics and Computer Engineering will include circuit designs, digital and analog circuits, digital signal processing, computer architecture, microelectronics, solid state, quantum, optic, plasma, photonics, microprocessors, silicon device, power system, MEMS, biomedical, etc... It is very broad based.

I think you need to have good analytical and design skills. And also a flexible brain with strong foundation in Maths and Physics, and also Chemistry and Biology, depending on which part of ECE that you are going into.

[Vincent_Goay]

Does anyone knows wat is Mechatronic Engineering or Robotic Engineering??

I hav great interest in this type of engineering...but wat is the major for mechatronic engineering...izzit e&e or mechanical engineering??

Need help for all this future engineers...haha :D

[ElansarGelmir]

I think you need to have good analytical and design skills. And also a flexible brain with strong foundation in Maths and Physics, and also Chemistry and Biology, depending on which part of ECE that you are going into.

Sounds like you need EVERYTHING to do EE... Why Biology?

[aquila]

ahhh... even a biology major needs physics, math and chemistry as well... i guess they just want you to have a firm grasp on all the sciences even if you decide to really just concentrate on one.

[CyberJaya]

Does anyone knows wat is Mechatronic Engineering or Robotic Engineering??

I hav great interest in this type of engineering...but wat is the major for mechatronic engineering...izzit e&e or mechanical engineering??

Need help for all this future engineers...haha :D
Mechatronics is the introduction of electronic controls into mechanical components. It is both eand e and mechanical rolled into one.

[chenchow]

On biology is needed in E&E, it is because a lot of medical device nowadays are utilizing MEMS technology and other electrical technology. A lot are wireless, using sensor etc. For instance, the pacemaker utilizes a lot of sensory power of Electrical Engineering.

Anyway, the field is very broad-based and it depends on whether anyone wants to specialize in any part of it.

Anyway, this is just within the major, which is like 20-30% of the total courses you are taking... You still have majority of courses outside of the field.

[naturesimple]

Anyway, the field is very broad-based and it depends on whether anyone wants to specialize in any part of it.


i thought the field u mentioned (EE) is already a specialize subject?

[weich]

mechatronics is like mech eng and e&e rolled into one...but some likened it to being a 'jack of all trades' kinda degree instead of a more specialised field...

...but basically from my experiences here in a UK engineering uni, mathematics is the foundation of engineering...we relate everything to maths...from designing products, how things work....etc....we also tend to like matrices, eigenvectors, eigenvalues, complex nos alot since they allow us to 'see' eqns more easily....and also not forgetting calculus....and the beauty of it is that they correlate to each other & makes good sense!!!

also i personally find it as a course that fully utilised everything u learned in 'A' levels, ....

Excel and Word will be your favourite pals...since you gotta type lotsa reports....and plot lotsa graphs....

...basically if you like Maths and Physics, have a curiosity on how things work or you like to apply what you learn almost immediately, be an engineer!

...on which field, it's up to you...what do you love most?

1. buildings/bridges/etc = civil eng;
2. airplanes/helicopters/F1/submarines/catamarans/crashes/etc = aeronautical eng;
3. circuits, electrical systems, etc = e&e;
4. plastics, chemicals, etc = chem eng;
5. rocks, fossils = geology;
6. what things are made of/cracks/deformation/fatigue = materials;
7. manufacturing processes, designing tools, or not sure = mech eng; etc....
8. many more fields that I haven't mention yet....

...but those are really general stuff...go & research more, talk to grads/undergrads who are doing the course, etc....for overseas unis...it's good to approach the respective Malaysian Societies to know best =)

Hope this helps to those aspiring engineers...

and also note that not all universities have the same course syllabus....certain unis tend to focus more on the applications e.g. you go down to the workshop more & do all the metalwork/woodwork, etc pretty often....some prefer to teach more theory, etc....

...but basically, if you want good job prospects, try a well-known engineering uni, since potential employers will always come & try to recruit you....

but note that I'm from the UK, and not knowing anything about the US unis, it could be different...

[windy_city]

I think I should introduce another engineering field that maybe you haven heard of in Malaysia--------- Industrial Engineering!!!

yeah, that what I am doing now, fun stuff, dealing stats, optimization, logistic, simulation and modeling, engineering administration.....but I am concentrating on finance and econ. I like money and lots of money (haha, just kidding, I concentrate on these because I think it is the most challenging aspect of industrial engineering, imagine yourself managing million of dollars everyday) I like industrial also because it is not so technical and it require more interaction with your client. I like to talk and meet more people.

Anyway, I just give an example out of so many engineering fields. I think you will find at least one of the engineering major that will suit your interests and needs.

[chenchow]

ECE is basically a broad-based choices over here. Within ECE, there are a number of branches that students can specialize in, like Power System, Solid-State, Circuits, Computer stuff, biomedical, etc...

On Industrial Engineering, I think it will depend on the courses. I find the ORIE (Operational Research and Industrial Engineering) over in Cornell too theoretical, not sure is this the norm. Perhaps this is my personal taste, and I dislike stuff that are too theoretical... Just my two cents.

[windy_city]

I think that is not a trend here. Maybe it is because of the Kellog businees school, the industrial engineering here is concentrated mainly on admin and finance. Different school has different focus i think.

[Randomphantom]

ORIE, thats really sounds like a new & interesting field in itself. I have contemplated studying E&E and CE for quite a while (my main interests are computers & maths) and in the end I would like to study something that isn't so technical in nature. However considering that it is virtually unheard of in Malaysia, I believe a job here would be hard to find. "ORIE? Can you fix things?".

Does anyone know about Financial engineering? Although the 'engineering' part of it is a bit redundant, its a relatively new field in which you apply maths to fields in finance and econs. Kinda like actuarial science without the insurance aspect from my understanding. And most do a Masters/PHD to get into this line, so this is an option for engineering grads.

Anyway, consider studying something you like: at the end of the day, you will excel in pursuing your interests, and thats what Uni is all about, the Honours/CGPA right? (j/k) :P

[windy_city]

The thing is: we dun fix stuff, we optimize it, and actually engineering is not about fixing stuff too.
About the job prospect: it is a relatively new field in Malaysia, but there is a lot of Singaporeans doing industrial here, the job markets is good in Singapore, plus industrial engineer dun need to go into engineering field, we have the option to go to finance and consultancy, which is what I will probably do. The good thing is, the field is very versatile and you are not competing with a lot of people in getting a job. Plus Industrial Engineer usually will end up getting a MBA at some point in their career.

But I think the most important thing is still the interest on the particular field that you want to pursue, you will get the most out of your education if you are enjoying the learning process.

[naturesimple]

yeah, that what I am doing now, fun stuff, dealing stats, optimization, logistic, simulation and modeling, engineering administration.....but I am concentrating on finance and econ. I like money and lots of money (haha, just kidding, I concentrate on these because I think it is the most challenging aspect of industrial engineering, imagine yourself managing million of dollars everyday) I like industrial also because it is not so technical and it require more interaction with your client. I like to talk and meet more people.


can describe more about this industrial engineering? it dun sound like engineering at all...

[windy_city]

Some call it imaginary engineering some call it people engineer.
Hahaha I dun mind as long as it is challenging and make a lot of money!

Below is the introduction of Industrial engineering taken from my school website:

Industrial Engineering: Industrial Engineering (IE) is concerned with the design, analysis and implementation of any production or service system with the goal of improving its quality and productivity. The system could be a manufacturing plant, transportation or a distribution network, a financial services company, an airline, a government agency or even a health care delivery organization. IE takes a holistic view of any system and provides methodologies to make its components, e.g., people, materials, processes, information and technology, work better together. You can think of IE as a bridge between engineering and management. To emphasize this connection, our department is named Industrial Engineering and Management Sciences (IE/MS).
More than half of our BS graduates go into management consulting; some work for investment banks and for manufacturing firms. Still others work in the areas of logistics, supply chain management and distribution networks for retail stores and package delivery companies. Most of our graduates go on to obtain an MBA for which an IE background is a great asset.

Apparently our school is named differently and it has different focus from Cornell Operation Research and Industrial Engineering, like I said mainly because the Kellogg business school (some of the lecturers from Kellogg teach the undergrad class too. Northwestern apparently take the advantage of the Kellogg business school so the industrial engineering here is related to management and finance. Plus most of the students who graduate here never end up in engineering field anyway. We mainly go to management consulting and investment banks (like JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Lehman, Citigroup??..). Only a small number of us really go into the industrial engineering part such as logistics and supply chain management. So the job prospect is wide because we are not confined in industrial engineering stuff. Plus take a look at the www.bls.gov and see how much a management consultant or an investment analyst can earn for their starting salary.

Yeah it true, the industrial engineer is not really engineer (especially if you are in Northwestern University) because you must likely will not end up in engineering field anyway. Hurray for imaginary engineering!!

[USSDefiantNX74205]

2. airplanes/helicopters/F1/submarines/catamarans/crashes/etc = aeronautical eng;

Heya guys. I'm pretty interested in aeronautical engineering, but unsure of the job prospects here in Malaysia. Can anyone enlighten me on this? And if its not too much trouble I'd also like to know the difference between aeronautical engineering and aerospace engineering. Are these two one and the same?

[naturesimple]

so is that means industrial engineering works more with people than machine?

[windy_city]

yeah, you can say that too, but this differs from school to school, some school concentrate on operation research and optimization, some concentrate on businees and management sciences so it all depend on school too.

[weich]

Heya guys. I'm pretty interested in aeronautical engineering, but unsure of the job prospects here in Malaysia. Can anyone enlighten me on this? And if its not too much trouble I'd also like to know the difference between aeronautical engineering and aerospace engineering. Are these two one and the same?

Aeronautical engineers are those who work on the design, manufacture, and use of aircraft and astronautical engineers are those who work on the design, manufacture, and use of spacecraft. Aerospace engineering is just a generic term that includes both disciplines.

Anyway, these 2 fields are very closely related in terms of aerodynamics and structure. So, I guess the skills are transferrable =)

As for job prospects in Malaysia...I seriously do not know anything about it...I took my course based on pure interest =) But in M'sia there's AIROD, CTRM, Zetro and MAS to look for work with if you want....or Singapore Technologies, one that is emerging as a leader in the field in SEA....but with technology transfers from Russia with our newly bought Su-30s you never know....we might start producing Su-30s for the region...haha :D

You can also work in airports....or with the military...and more recently the composites industry is hiring more as well....and CTRM manufactures some parts of the wings for Airbus....so it could be good =)

..and according to one of the investment bankers that I spoke to an aeronautical engineering degree's really sexy!! =) And in Imperial (that's where I'm studying - about 40% of our graduates for my dept goes into finance, about 20% gets hired in an aeronautics related firm)

Competition is pretty tough...although batches are small i.e. about 70 ppl a year....and you do alotta maths, and we basically sit and face the computer for very long hours....but once in your 4 years here in Imperial, you get to take a special plane ride...and experience things you won't get in a normal civilian aircraft =)

anyway, it's hard to predict the future....just follow what you like, i think that's best! Aeronautical Engineering's quite a cool subject....so there's no stopping you if you would wanna pursue it =)

[CyberJaya]

Do you think there are job prospects for computer engineers in Malaysia. I know i've probably asked a similar question many times but this one is quite important to me as i'm computing major. I also know that i have to find my niche in the industry and be better than the best but still having said that if anyone knows the overall perspective on computer engineers?

[chenchow]

I think there is lots of prospects for computer engineers in Malaysia or the region, but I think one of the problems that is happening in Malaysia, is that the graduates do not serve the needs of the industry. Among the main laments include the graduates can't program stuff beyond the basic programming, lack of communication skills etc. And I think the skills that you learn in Computer Engineering or any other engineering needs to be transferable. You need to learn new related skills easily.

windy_city, I think perhaps Cornell is separating it from the Business Schools. As we all, from freshman onwards are allowed to take courses in Johnson Business Schools, so that's why the OR department caters more on the theoretical side. So, those students who want to learn more on the application of math towards finance, business etc, then ORIE courses are what needed to be taken. If those students who are more concerned about business wise, then they can just take courses directly from B School, so that there is no overlapping offering of courses. Courses taken from Johnson Business Schools could be counted for graduation in any major on campus I believe, especially within engineering. I have taken a few courses from B School: Entrepreneurship, Business Law and Negotiation and I plan to take Derivatives next semester and in my final semester, I plan to take majority of my courses in B. School, since I have only 1 ECE course and a French course left.

In fact, there isn't any Singaporean here doing ORIE, but there are 2 Malaysians that are doing. Cheryl (silverblue) and Lip Yoong are doing ORIE. Kevin (littlebigone) is contemplating double majoring in CS and ORIE. Personally, I minor in Industrial System and Information Technology from ORIE Dept, taking courses like Production Scheduling, Game Theory, Quality Control, Information Technology, Financial & Managerial Accouting, Industrial System Analysis.

[CyberJaya]

which major are you on chenchow?

[chenchow]

Cyberjaya, I think I post about this somewhere in ReCom before...anyway, I am majoring in Electrical and Computer Engineering, with minors in Industrial Systems and Information Technology (dept of Operations Research and Industrial Engineering), Information Science (Dept of Com Sci) and Engineering Management (Dept of Civil and Environmental Engineering).

[windy_city]

Yep, i think that why it is different here than Cornell.
Because Kellogg Business School only accept grad student, no undergrad is in Kellogg. So the industrial engineering department here work closely with Kellogg, and that why they call it industrial engineering and management sciences.

:D

[chenchow]

How about other universities? Do the Business School on campus allows undergraduates to take courses in it? Over here, because of undergraduates are allowed to take the Business School courses, I have a feeling that it may not be that good experience for those students who are pursuing MBAs here, because some of the students in the class will be undergraduate, although I would say that majority of those undergrads taking MBA courses are juniors and seniors.

[windy_city]

I think one of the reasons that Kellogg is one of the best business schools in the world because they concentrate only on the graduate MBA. Undergrad are not allowed to take the class there, so Kellogg can focus more on in depth business stuff because all the students are required to have a few years work experience before they are eligible to apply to Kellogg.

[chenchow]

A heartening news to hear at The Star Education on inaugural Institution of Electrical Engineers (IEE) Under-graduate Inter-Varsity Project Competition held at Universiti Malaya (UM) last week.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/5/16/education/7950930&sec=education

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Thanks for the information, weich. Really appreciate it. If you don't mind too, I do have a few more questions...

1. Is there anything (math, physics, chemistry, etc) you have to be good at to take up aeronautical engineering?

2. What exactly does an aeronautical engineering graduate do? Do they work solely on aircraft design and manufacture? Or can they work on the maintenance aspects of aircraft too?

3. How much does it cost to study overseas for an aeronautical engineering degree? How much did it cost you? Or are you a JPA scholar?

Hope I don't overwhelm you with these questions!

[weich]

1. Is there anything (math, physics, chemistry, etc) you have to be good at to take up aeronautical engineering?

umm....you got to be pretty good at maths and physics, and computing programming skills would be useful as well =) since, we handle alotta iterations....

2. What exactly does an aeronautical engineering graduate do? Do they work solely on aircraft design and manufacture? Or can they work on the maintenance aspects of aircraft too?

...you mean after he/she graduate what he/she does in an aeronautical firm? Normally in this field, you can choose between:

- aircraft structures i.e. the wings, skin, things below the skin, fuel tank, etc....
- or aerodynamics i.e. general shape of the plane, wings, flow of fluids over a body....etc....
- or aircraft systems.....design aircraft control systems, avionics, etc....
- or flight testing....i.e. sit in a prototype plane and conduct planes or look from afar =) mainly to do with measuring and gauging the performance of the aircraft
- develop materials for aircraft....composites are pretty hot now
- can also venture into F1/automotive industry for aerodynamics or even submarines/offshore oil platforms for hydrodynamics...
- yes, can work on aircraft maintenance as well...detecting fatigue/failure on aircraft before flying, etc

There's more I think....but can't really think of much now =)

3. How much does it cost to study overseas for an aeronautical engineering degree? How much did it cost you? Or are you a JPA scholar?

Currently my school fees are about 13,200 pounds, last year was 12,600, and it increases every year....nope I'm not JPA...on FAMA...wonder if I qualify since I did my secondary education in S'pore....

Hope that's useful..... =)

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Thanx for the info, weich! That really cleared things up...