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tehjiao
10-07-2008, 11:49 AM
I thought that Malaysia Gov's doctors suffering for underpay problem, then i realize that this even happen in England, so this is the fate for new doctors all over the world===> POOR DOCTORS.

Here is the link and the article.
http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/



"The cynical betrayal of junior hospital doctors continues

posted by Dr John Crippen at 3:12 PM
Doctors' Mess

After five or six years at medical school, most newly qualified doctors have educational loans far higher than other students. And when they start work, most of them have no alternative but to live for at least part of the week in hospital accommodation. The hours may not be as long as they were but the shift system still means unsociable start and finishing times and that makes commuting difficult. Rotating jobs means it is impossible to settle in one area. Buy a house in Birmingham and then your next job is in Manchester. It was hard enough for a newly qualified doctor to buy a house in the first place. Now (s)he is forced to pay huge sums of money for tatty hospital accommodation, it is impossible.

The use of university halls-style rooms in their first year after graduating has been used as an excuse to keep the starting salary of junior doctors low, just ?21,000 this year, compared to the average graduate's first salary of ?24,000. But the provision of free accommodation has been removed without any compensatory pay rise. (source)

Remember also that newly qualified doctors are not ?average? students. They are la cr?me de la cr?me. How do other high-flying graduates fare?

As a trainee solicitor in London you will earn ?37,500 in year 1, and ?41,500 in Year 2. Once you're qualified, this rises to ?66,000 plus a bonus scheme. (CMS Cameron McKenna)


Graduate Starting Salaries
STARTING SALARIES for graduate Lawyers have shot through the ?60,000 mark for the first time ? more than twice the level they were a decade ago. But some graduates can expect to earn less than ?15,000 per year in their first graduate role. Newly employed solicitors from London?s top firms have seen salaries rise by sixteen percent in the last twelve months to ?64,000. Many trainee solicitors can expect to earn ?only? ?35,000 ? the same amount as trainee accountants. High-earning graduates often see their pay packet swell with a ?10,000 Golden Hello on top of their annual earnings.

Investment banker ?33,000
Management consultant ?24,000 ? ?35,000
Junior doctor ?20,741
Police constable ?20,397
Teacher ?20,133
Nursery manager ?20,000
Nurse ?19,683
Civil service administrator ?19,387
Paramedic ?19,195
Electrical engineer ?17,000 ? ?27,000
Soldier ?15,700
Library assistant ?15,000
Full-time shop assistant ?13,000 ? ?16,000
Teaching assistant ?11,000 ? ?14,000
Fashion model ?10,000 ? ?15,000
Regional newspaper reporter ?10,000
Part-time nursery nurse ?7,500 ? ?10,400 (Student Direct)

So a newly qualified doctor thus earns little more than a nurse or a paramedic. Why bother to train as a doctor?"

tehjiao
24-07-2008, 10:50 PM
I love the end of this article as well, "Why bother to train as a doctor?" In my case, it's just because of passion. However, I'm sure most of us become exhausted very soon when we start service at government hospital. Is there anything that we can do? Our politic leader? Our MMA leader? Silence...........

FCHP
25-07-2008, 09:14 AM
I guess there's an oversupply of doctors making it easier to cut cost on human resources. Also I think a doctor isn't a very mobile profession. Its not easy to transfer your skill set to other areas. So not much retention costs for businesses..

digital_lifeform
25-07-2008, 09:37 AM
Actually it is a matter of supply and demand and how well doctors fight for their pay. In most cases, doctors haven't got organized to make demands for higher pay. I don't think there's an oversupply of doctors yet.

Zeroth
25-07-2008, 02:24 PM
Bear in mind though that's this is the pay of a junior doctor who just graduated. Compared to the pay of the other career paths, the rise in pay as you progress is much higher. A well qualified specialist can easily earn ten times that amount.

FCHP
25-07-2008, 02:48 PM
I found out the starting pay for a GP at a private hospital here is above RM 10k. Hmm... doesn't sound too poor...

youngyew
25-07-2008, 03:38 PM
No we are facing a shortage instead of oversupply of doctors. Oversupply of lousy medical graduates, on the other hand, is possibly true.

GP is a specialist so 10k is reasonable. Or you are talking about fresh medical graduate? :)

FCHP
25-07-2008, 04:46 PM
oh i didn't know general practitioner is also considered a specialist... but its true that educational institutions should be failing a lot more than they're passing... this is true of a lot of disciplines... the side effect which we can see is educational inflation coz of this problem..

tehjiao
25-07-2008, 10:36 PM
No we are facing a shortage instead of oversupply of doctors. Oversupply of lousy medical graduates, on the other hand, is possibly true.

GP is a specialist so 10k is reasonable. Or you are talking about fresh medical graduate? :)

GP in developed country like UK or AUS is a Specialty unlike Malaysia. In Malaysia we have GP Specialist known as Family Physician Specialist (FMS, Local Trained) or MRCGP (England/Ireland Specialist). Most of the GP in our country are only ordinary doctors, not specialist. However, their income range from RM5000-RM12,000 / month.

At Private Practise:
Physician/Paediatrician :RM12,000-40,000
Surgeon/O&G:RM18,000-50,000
Neurosurgeon/Cardiac surgeon:may >RM100,000
p/s: for surgical specialist, the insurance premium may up to RM20,000 or more annually

Remember, it all depends on how hardworking the doctor work, the more u earn, the less time u can spend with family.

Besides, for those who think that EVERY DOCTOR can become specialist, please realize that it's not easy to become specialist. 1 out of 100 students may pursuit medicine. 1 out of 100 doctors may become specialist. Think about it.

Last word, no passion/interest, stay away from this field. :)

I found out the starting pay for a GP at a private hospital here is above RM 10k. Hmm... doesn't sound too poor...

Please tell me which hospital offering that pay. I'm sure a lot of doctors will be interested. LOL. However if it's true, I'm sure either you need to work like a dog or the charge to the patients is 5-Stars standard. :)

duke23
25-07-2008, 11:45 PM
GP in developed country like UK or AUS is a Specialty unlike Malaysia. In Malaysia we have GP Specialist known as Family Physician Specialist (FMS, Local Trained) or MRCGP (England/Ireland Specialist). Most of the GP in our country are only ordinary doctors, not specialist. However, their income range from RM5000-RM12,000 / month.

At Private Practise:
Physician/Paediatrician :RM12,000-40,000
Surgeon/O&G:RM18,000-50,000
Neurosurgeon/Cardiac surgeon:may >RM100,000
p/s: for surgical specialist, the insurance premium may up to RM20,000 or more annually

Remember, it all depends on how hardworking the doctor work, the more u earn, the less time u can spend with family.

Besides, for those who think that EVERY DOCTOR can become specialist, please realize that it's not easy to become specialist. 1 out of 100 students may pursuit medicine. 1 out of 100 doctors may become specialist. Think about it.

Last word, no passion/interest, stay away from this field. :)



Please tell me which hospital offering that pay. I'm sure a lot of doctors will be interested. LOL. However if it's true, I'm sure either you need to work like a dog or the charge to the patients is 5-Stars standard. :)


i would like to add here,orthopedic surgeons earn in access of RM300 k in some hospitals(the major private centres) and so do obstetricians..anesthetists and eye surgeons make a whack of money too.if a specialists in private practice makes less than 40 k,something is VERY wrong somehwere.


and a GP's average in come is wayyyy more than the upper limit of 12k..20 k will be the ball park figure and many make A LOT more

ah btw teh jiao..u are right..the more you work the less time with your family..
a family member of mine is a spine surgeon and and he has 16 hour scoliosis surgeries almost every other week and in addition to that has to handle fracture ,spine, gait and neuromotor clinics..its not fun for sure..( this is not in malaysia)..hard work but..err.salary is definitely not an issue..but it does affect family life to a certain extent..and he/she has to have a very understanding family to be able to cope with such a workload