Lest we forget...

[misled_youth]

[b]Tomorrow is May 13th. The darkest day in Malaysian history.

Let me quote 4 paragraphs from Tunku Abdul Rahman,

"Many people were caught in the midst of violence, terror and fear, especially those in the cinemas, in the clubs, in the restaurants and other places of amusement. Men, women and children of all races had to seek shelter and security where they could and as ebst as they could.

"Many people died, and hundreds suffered injury. Houses were burnt, properties destroyed, vehicles wrecked. The whole capital city, normally so peacefully busy, trembled with apprehension. Such an unleashing of violence had never happened before in this country where people of different races had enjoyed tranquility and peace for as long as anyone could remember.

"The whole nation suffered a profound shock, hsaken to its very core, to such an extent that we can still quiver at the thought of what happened. Geographically speaking, Malaysia does not lie in the earthquake belt, but May 13th, 1969, was certainly a social and political eruption of the first magnitude."

Reference:
Tunku Abdul Rahman, 1969, May 13: Before & After, Penerbitan Utusan Melayu: Kuala Lumpur. p6-7.
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[USSDefiantNX74205]

35 years already huh? T'was a turning point for this country. A date that Malay ultras seized and took as an opportunity to encourage racist policies that still stick and divide us 35 years later.

[misled_youth]

USSDefiantNX74205: How big are the siang malam rats nowadays?

Let's also not forget about the Chinese extremist of labour party and Gerakan, who mocked the malays on May 11th and May 12th.

It's everyone's fault.
________
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[USSDefiantNX74205]

To: misled_youth: Seriously? I have no idea how big the rats are at siang malam nowadays...don't go there that often anymore. You familiar with Taiping?

Well Gerakan's with BN now, so they in part are responsible for the policies we have now. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put the blame for May 13th on anyone. Just saying that the events were taken as one of the reasons for the NEP and such.

[thesoothsayer]

Yes, let us not forget this tragic day in the history of Malaysia.

I really hope that Malaysia can be a more united and equal country in the future but that looks like a pipe dream. In fact, I'm downright pessimistic about the future of Malaysia. I wonder what will happen when the easy times are gone. Will the people be at each other's throats again?

If only all the Malaysian people had been as forward looking as Dato' Onn Jaafar over 5 decades ago. Perhaps we'd be seeing a much different Malaysia than what we have now.

[phantom]

35 years already huh? T'was a turning point for this country. A date that Malay ultras seized and took as an opportunity to encourage racist policies that still stick and divide us 35 years later.


hey, mr space ship,that's not accusing urgh?pergh,you vividly typed that,that date allow the malay ultras to run our nation.

who are these malay ultras,anyone that you think dont satisfy your demands?so anyone who dont dance according to your rhythms deserve this callow labeling from you.

hey,go and read some history books.

who started this ridicolous drama?would these people care to be called as supremacist?these kind of people didnt deserve to call malaysia as their home

people were killed on that day becoz they have different skin tones.that kind of feelings were not ignited in one day or 2 days but years,why didnt you blame the english for their dasar, "pecah and perintah",which lead different races in different topography and different jobs.

yeap,closed you eyes tightly for any bad things did by others but opened you eyes widely when it was comitted by anyone who was not sharing one head with you.

great!!

[__earth]

you will need to put in a more descriptive name for the thread next time.

but ppl, why are you playing the blame game? its 35 years ago. get over it. grow up.

the truth is, its everybody fault.

[luke]

let's not start a "your grandfather killed my grandfather thus I have to kill you" drama ...

[oxherd]

but ppl, why are you playing the blame game? its 35 years ago. get over it. grow up.

the truth is, its everybody fault.

While its certainly advisable to get over it, I am not entirely sure that we should completely refrain from analyzing it either in a more critical manner in the public domain.

For example, the Japanese had WW2, Germans and Western Europe had the holocaust, Americans had civil rights movement, Vietnam, etc. Each of these nations have had varying degrees of success in soul-searching as far as this issues are concerned, and they are still being touched on in the public press from time to time.

May 13 led to a series of changes in the govt. policy whose effects we are still living with today, for better or for worse. So a prudent question is: should we discuss it ? Are there any benefits, other than for historical posterity, for doing so ?

Or, are we as a collective nation, not emotionally mature enough to do it at this current period of time without inflaming tensions again ?

[gohweihan]

Or, are we as a collective nation, not emotionally mature enough to do it at this current period of time without inflaming tensions again ?

The tensions caused by discussing about May 13 is not due to the fact that we are immature emotionally, but because the effects of May 13 is like a burden having to be carried by those who were born after the incident, and who had nothing to do whatsoever with it than just being an indirect victim.

[__earth]

but ppl, why are you playing the blame game? its 35 years ago. get over it. grow up.

the truth is, its everybody fault.

While its certainly advisable to get over it, I am not entirely sure that we should completely refrain from analyzing it either in a more critical manner in the public domain.

sure sure. but just look at the posts in this thread. there are still ppl blaming each other.

when i said grow up, i really mean discuss it with maturity. dont throw mud at each other.

[soul_out]

Guess we're mature enough to discuss it. Remember the day so that we will not let it happen anymore.

Hatred never ceases through hatred. Only through love does it cease.

[aquila]

i think we should be able to openly discuss about may 13... now that we're 35 yrs away from it...

discuss the reasons, and tensions and why it happened??? and learn from history not to repeat that kind of racial killings again... history is all abt learning from the past anyways... unless someone has something to hide i dont see any reason why it shd not be taught in textbooks

of course, it has to be taught objectively... no blaming on any of the races... i remember my primary school teacher telling us how some chinese shopkeepers sliced the belly of a pregnant malay woman during the riots... *roll* how much more insensitive can one be when there are clearly other races in the class? plus we were so young, was it time to indoctrinate us with incorrect assumptions abt other races?

no finger pointing most importantly... we dont blame today's germans for the sins of the nazi party...

[USSDefiantNX74205]

hey, mr space ship,that's not accusing urgh?pergh,you vividly typed that,that date allow the malay ultras to run our nation.

Once again I believe I have been misunderstood. Can you point out any accusations anywhere in that stamement that I made, phantom? I have never blamed anyone for starting May 13th and like most people here, I don't believe it is the fault of any one race. But wasn't I right in saying that May 13th was one of the reasons all these policies are in place now? That has a total different meaning from accusing any one race of starting the riots. Please, understand what I'm trying to say before throwing accusations like that towards me.

[ElansarGelmir]

The racial riot has a deep impact on every soul of Malaysians, especially those who witnessed the bloody murders. While no one (or everyone) is to be blamed, there were some who took this opportunity to their own advantages. What I afraid is, the racial tension is still tight in some regions (i believe this is derived from the prolonged NEP), another riot will due to happen in the near future unless the govt continue to suppress the freedom of speech of Malaysians...

[oxherd]

Well, if everyone here can discuss this in a rational manner, here's some material to kickstart a more detailed discussion. A short account of the incident:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_13_Incident

Here?s an unofficial account by an opposition party supporter. It isn?t very coherent, but if you edit out all the Mahathir-bashing parts, it gives a more detailed commentary.

http://www.freeanwar.net/jan2003/article300103.htm

It basically claims that the racial riots were partially arising from a power struggle within UMNO.

It should be pointed out that there was never an independent inquiry conducted on the racial riots by the govt to this day, which is why many Malaysians are unsatisfied with the official account of the version. This observation also applies to the more recent but less serious ethnic conflict situation in Kampung Medan.

I know there have been many commentaries on the incident since then. Anyone with additional commentaries from books or internet postings ?

Last but not least, to keep things in perspective, bear in mind that countries that are supposedly far more advanced and with an older history than ours, that have yet to deal with racial issues successfully at all levels of society. The racial riots in LA, US and those in Bradford, UK are a testimony to this. We may still have far to go, but I think we can take pride in achieving a relatively harmonious society, all things taken into account.

[gohweihan]

The racial riot has a deep impact on every soul of Malaysians, especially those who witnessed the bloody murders. While no one (or everyone) is to be blamed, there were some who took this opportunity to their own advantages. What I afraid is, the racial tension is still tight in some regions (i believe this is derived from the prolonged NEP), another riot will due to happen in the near future unless the govt continue to suppress the freedom of speech of Malaysians...

If that is the case, then we should all ask ourselves whether we want to take the chance and go take to the streets in the hope that we all have the freedom that we should have, or stay oppressed and give up our freedom to the government.

[topdog]

freedom of speech really means nothing if your rice bowl is empty. the educated middle class can afford to talk about ideals like freedom of speech. to people who are struggling to make ends meet it means nothing. the kampung medan incident happened in a squatter area in case we forget.

i think what we should be more concerned about is socioeconomic disparit. how to help those who can't help themselves.

in the near term, "freedom of speech" would have more meaning to the low income earners if it means being able to highlight their problems in the mainstream media and to take govt agencies/agents to task for misuse of power at the expense of the underprivileged, no matter how powerful these agencies/agents may be.

[__earth]

somebody remembers Maslow's hierarchy of needs!
it has been awhile since i last heard about it.

I agree that freedom means nothing to the poor. But I'm sure to most of us here, freedom means a lot because most of us are not in the lower half of the normal curve. (or at least within one SD for those who wanna have a more accurate measurement, but if this is you, seriously get a life).

And I believe suppression of free speech is different from the poors' apathetic mentality towards freedom. Malaysia is experiencing the former, not the latter, in most cases.

Lastly, i want to remind people that suppressing free speech does not solve the problem. It only delays the real problem. If nothing is done in time, May 13th is set to happen again - this is a prophecy.

It is only through free speech could we remove racist idea. or at least that what happened during when the US civil movement was up high and running.

[phantom]

Mr. Space Ship said:

But wasn't I right in saying that May 13th was one of the reasons all these policies are in place now? That has a total different meaning from accusing any one race of starting the riots. Please, understand what I'm trying to say before throwing accusations like that towards me.



what is NEP?Do you understand this?why one earth did you pinpont that these riot has allowed the malay ultras (a term once used by someone who reigned the kiasu land) to bring our nation this way?

dont forget of what have happened in a country like vietnam and even thailand.remember chapter 5 from sejarah dunia book we learned during form 4?and did you lately feed your brain with what have happened in a nation like indonesia?

why these things have happened?when there's no equality in social economic ground,we will see tension and angriness from those who are left behind.when only one race is conquering the money,the left-outs would feel opressed.

NEP was suggested to overcome this.how many NEPs have we have had these far,mr space ship?why NEP only bring you back to special rights,when this dasar has also built FELDA and FELCRA.What about those people who once could not even afford to own a home and are turned into millionaires by this dasar?what about the change of topography and social status?what about BSKL and urbanizations?what about UKM?what about the destruction of dasar pecah and perintah?what about felda's sons who now become doctors and engineers?did you have any idea who is the president of anak2 pengusaha felda society?

this is what I meant when i said,you closed your eyes.

NEP has allowed the once left out race to compete,this dasar has allowed them to stand as tall as they wish.once looked down,they are now standing on equal ground.

praise NEPs for that.dont just assume all these benefit BN or UMNO.you forget that this dasar too benefit those who were/are/will be againts the dasar makers.


dont also forget about rukun negara.this is created after this riot too.

yeap,the way we looked at the future has changed now due to this black date.but i believe the changes are for good.it has allowed for so many improvements in our nations.we have managed to reduce the tension between races due to the economic matter to the least figures.now that we have reduce the tension between races,we can look forward to build our nation.

remember too,we once the home for the tallest office building in this world,where's the kiasu land then?cry of foul.dare enough to label someone as malay ultra,but couldn't even build a decent building.

but alas,amid this,amid NEPs,we still fail to cherish out melting-pot status.how many of us really have best friends from other races?how many of us will be willing to put race as the last thing in mind?

the only way for us not to repeat this tragedy is to appreciate the differences between us.but that is extremely hard when we even have those growns-up,be there parents and teachers who constantly tune the racial sentiments inside us.what about deragatory words we created to label other race?

how "grow-up" is a grown up then?

[aquila]

wo wo... calm down... stop the spore bashing... they have nothing to do with this anymore... they're a separate country now so let's put our politics back at home where it belongs... also when you say "where's their decent buildings?" i'm inclined to smirk... spore after all is years ahead of us... just look at the sing dollar... 2.2 to RM now altho it was once the same... thus before throwing accusations to our neighbor, please do some research first, thank you...


i'm not a spore loving traitor, mind you.. it's just that i don't think it's right to keep blaming spore for our troubles... what're u gonna say next? we didn't advance as much because spore split from us? i'm heard enough of that BS already... leave them alone... they're a major trade partner... can't we be a friendly neighbor?

about NEP, i definitely support it when it was first implemented... i mean you don't really want to have a society where one race is clearly left behind and also when they're in the majority... makes economic and political sense if you ask me... also, if the malays progressed, it'd do good for the other races... with economic prosperity, ppl are less likely to turn to religious fundamentalism or racist indoctrination... look at suharto in indonesia... when he was in deep trouble he pointed to the chinese and blamed them for all of indonesia's woes... and poor indonesians did go out to kill. rape and loot the chinese bcoz they were poor and desperate...

can u imagine a middle class malay in msia doing that right now? even if he really believes other races are the biggest pests in the world? no! simply because instability will affect his business, his life and his wealth...

also, by bringing the malays to the cities, you are giving them and the other races a chance to bergaul... mind you, it's easier to get ppl to the cities than to ask ppl to move back to kampungs...

overall, i think the NEP did good... having said that however, i must say that today, we have a booming malay middle class along with booming chinese and indian middle class families too since our economy has improved by leaps and bounds.... NEP can and should be used to help the poor Malays who are still in kampungs... however, i think the govt should really focus on helping the poor chinese and indian families in kampungs too... not just in kampungs, we have really poor ppl in cities so those will have to be helped as well... my point being, let's help everyone who needs help... not just based on one's race... i don't think urban malays are really disadvantaged these days... in many cases, they are the richer, more privileged ppl.. do they still need help? or shouldn't we help those who really need help instead?

also, the folks in sabah and sarawak... they live without basic facilities like hospitals, telephones, electricity, water... shouldnt we focus on development there? if the NEP was to help a disadvantaged race, why shouldnt it help the disadvantaged rural orang asli, sarawakians and sabahans now? i'd hate to think that our rulers only have malays' interests in mind... bear in mind that your have almost 55% non-malay population.. (yea i know census says 60% are bumis but bumis include our saban and sarawak frens so even 55% is a liberal estimate)

[phantom]

wo wo... calm down... stop the spore bashing... they have nothing to do with this anymore... they're a separate country now so let's put our politics back at home where it belongs... also when you say "where's their decent buildings?" i'm inclined to smirk... spore after all is years ahead of us... just look at the sing dollar... 2.2 to RM now altho it was once the same... thus before throwing accusations to our neighbor, please do some research first, thank you...




i am pinpointing at this term:malay ultras labeled by Lee Kuan Yew.he also called the english as the football hooligans in of the interview.read this:

During the racially turbulent 1960s and 1970s, Mahathir had been known as a Malay ultra (famously labelled as such by the Singapore Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew) or extremist, and was expelled by his party for the publication of The Malay Dilemma in 1970. reference: read Oxherd's post

how great he is to called ppl whatever he liked?so having RM2.20 to SPD1 has allowed him to say that urgh?

then,having the tallest building has allowed me to bash them that way.

yeap,sorry i hate the s'porean for some unknown reasons.but this is not a crux here.

Let's hope the 13th may tragedy will not repeat.I believe NEP was a proper tool for that,and it is and will be.

[topdog]

Let's hope the 13th may tragedy will not repeat.I believe NEP was a proper tool for that,and it is and will be.
i do not deny the "was." what i question is the "is" and "will be."

i'm curious to know if you think there is nothing wrong with giving discounts to a bumi who can afford to buy a bungalow in damansara heights.

or giving a full ride for a foreign college education to the child of a highly paid director of X company.

get the drift?

[qedx]

oops i forgot

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Oh. So all this boils down to the fact that I used a term used by someone who reigned 'kiasuland' as you put it, phantom? And the reason you don't like the term is because you hate Singapore?

Think...while the NEP has no doubt given our country much benefit, there are also many downsides to it. If the aim of the NEP is to close the gap between rich and poor, why not open it to all races? Felda, Felcra, Petronas Twin Towers, etc. These are no doubt the successes of the NEP, but have you ever given a thought to those who are languishing in povertry but do not deserve any aid because they are born the wrong skin color? You accuse me of seeing only what I want to see, but you are doing exactly the same thing. You only see the rosy and upside of the bumi policies, all the while ignoring the cauldron of racial misunderstanding and unfairness slowly simmering right under the aura or perfection you currently perceive. You speak of racial harmony and unity when you are oblivious to the fact that these very policies are dividing the nation by race. Do you see that? If you don't then maybe you should take a look inside some yahoo forums and see for yourself the racial thrashing there done by Malaysians. Maybe you haven't seen or heard any racial remarks that are really painful yet, painful enough to shatter your illusion of national perfection.

Let me ask you, what is the use of having lots of millionaires, tallest buildings, achievements after achievements, while the people in this country are still as divided, if not even more divided than pre-May 13th? You probably don't hear all the negative things because the ISA is there to grab anyone who questions these policies. So in this respect, you are very wrong I believe. My eyes are open wide, but yours ain't. I can see the upside and downside of unfair policies, but you can't. Stick with your illusions and you may find yourself in a nation more divided than it is now.

No offense, phantom, but I think you need to see the bigger picture first before you write your next 'mr space ship' (btw, spaceship is written as one word...) post bashing my comments. If you care to browse around this site or the internet, I'm sure you will find much more information on bumi policy and NEP - both the positive and negative aspects of it. Of course, what I wrote up there may not be right either, so if there's anything wrong, do correct me.

[budakkerek]

whoa..i think we need timeout here..like you guys are bashing each other...must remember, on of the reasons why 13th May happened was cause everyone couldnt agree w each other.

I'm not asking you guys to come up w a general idea whatsoever but pls cut some slack, like...respect others' opinion like you want others to respect yours. okie?

[USSDefiantNX74205]

Okay, I'm calling for a timeout here. If phantom wants to continue with his 'star ship' bashing then go ahead by all means...pehaps I sound as if I lack respect here for using the label 'Malay Ultra'. So if I offended anyone, then I offer a handshake of apology. Its the least I can do.

[budakkerek]

well..perhaps, what we need is to learn how to take everything w a pinch of salt..like, dont be mudah terasa lei...like me ^_^ *haha..perasan..LOL j/k*

[oxherd]

Lastly, i want to remind people that suppressing free speech does not solve the problem. It only delays the real problem. If nothing is done in time, May 13th is set to happen again - this is a prophecy.

Would you mind telling us a scenario in which that might happen ? Its just that I keep hearing about the inevitability of May 13th from specific political parties in the event I make the wrong voting decision come election time.

It is only through free speech could we remove racist idea. or at least that what happened during when the US civil movement was up high and running.

While that is certainly true in theory, I wonder how practical that is in implementation. The majority of Malays (at least that's what I perceive, correct me if I am wrong) do not conceive of the NEP as being a racist policy, rather a social contract between races. Do you really believe that encouraging more open public dialogue on the issue would change their minds ? Or would it instead create more antagonism ?

[oxherd]

During the racially turbulent 1960s and 1970s, Mahathir had been known as a Malay ultra (famously labelled as such by the Singapore Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew) or extremist, and was expelled by his party for the publication of The Malay Dilemma in 1970. reference: read Oxherd's post

how great he is to called ppl whatever he liked?so having RM2.20 to SPD1 has allowed him to say that urgh?


In case you have forgotten, Mahathir also called Suqiu a group of extremists and likened them to communists and the Al-Maunah group during the elections of 1999. Politicians tend to make controversial statements whenever it befits them. In that respect, Lee Kuan Yew and Mahathir are no different.

BTW, it is possible to respect a leader and his policies for its strengths, and also be critical of its shortcomings at the same time. The world isn't black and white on everything, and its certainly not on the issue of NEP.

[misled_youth]

Deii thamby... no point arguing about the past. Just learn from it, and don't fuck up the future.
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[ElansarGelmir]

Hmmm... in case you guys don't realize it, we are just like the pot calling the kettle black. We are no different from the singaporeans. We have even more extreme kia su cases in Malaysia, even in INTEC UiTM. Oh yeah, by the way, if you think our KL Tower is something to be proud of, then perhaps you should pay a visit to our neighbor country (somethind which i doubt you will do it due to your extreme loathe for it). They have efficient public transport system (something which Malaysia's lacking far behind), law abiding drivers, and mind you, their racial bonds are even stronger than what we have here in Malaysia and they do not even need NEP for that.

NEP is good, but i think it has been there longer than it should have been.

[__earth]

Would you mind telling us a scenario in which that might happen ?

Do you really believe that encouraging more open public dialogue on the issue would change their minds ? Or would it instead create more antagonism ?

I wrote this at my site. hope it answers you:

http://www.umich.edu/~mnoorsha/[/url]]Looking back in time, Malaysia has gone far in achieving racial harmony. I can't deny this but I fear that racial harmony is not enough. The harmony in Malaysia actually depends on the suppression of free speech. This suppression does not solve the racial tension but it merely delays the day when it is supposed to explode.

Because of this, Malaysia actually depends on pseudo-harmony rather than a real harmony.

A real harmony lives without any kind of restriction. A real harmony does not need suppression of free speech. A real harmony does not need a law to impose harmony. A pseudo-harmony on the other hand does need an artificial mechanism to prevent racial tension.

With a mechanism to suppress free speech in place, the underlying reasons that continue to divide Malaysia along racial line will never be addressed properly. The inability to discuss the matter as it should be will be the undoing of the law that tries to impose this pseudo-harmony. Without the ability to discuss on the issue, distrust will always be there because a simple understanding between one and another is simply hard to reach. One cannot understand somebody when that somebody is being silenced.

With free speech, dialogues are possible and the real issues could be addressed without the fear of being detained for committing thought crime by the thought police. Without free speech, Malaysia would never reach a real kind of harmony. With this thought police around, free speech and freedom in general will always be a privilege instead of a right.

As long as free speech is not our rights, a real harmony will always be out of any Malaysian in Malaysia grasp. And as long as we live in a pseudo-harmony, we will always recognize ourselves as Malay, Chinese, Indian or God knows what else instead of as Malaysian. Finally, as we will recognize ourselves along racial line, the next May 13 is bound to happen all over again. It is just a matter of when.

[aquila]

I agree Earth! I'm glad there are progressive thinkers across races. Perhaps next time we can set up our own multi racial progressive party? :P

Anyways, I think Malaysians who are abroad usually identify themselves as Malaysians. At least I know I do. It's only when people start asking why I know Mandarin or why I look CHinese do I tell them that I'm actually Chinese too.

[oxherd]

With free speech, dialogues are possible and the real issues could be addressed without the fear of being detained for committing thought crime by the thought police. Without free speech, Malaysia would never reach a real kind of harmony. With this thought police around, free speech and freedom in general will always be a privilege instead of a right.

This in the part I am not completely convinced about. Certainly, I would very much hope this to be the case, but can we really be sure that in a situation with free speech, the relevant issues can be addressed successfully ? Assume a hypothetical situation where the govt steps back from regulating the press, and newspapers are allowed to publish anything they want. How do we know that the majority of opinions will be rational discussions, instead of emotional accusations ? And if the latter, is it possible that such accusations may make matters even worse between the races ?

I guess what the question I am trying to pose is: is the govt?s policy of banning free press merely a reflection of the reluctance of the nation as a whole in discussing these controversial issues, OR is it the case that the govt. is seriously out of touch with the people and racial harmony will reign as soon as public discussion of these issues are permitted ? As the saying goes, people deserve the government they elect.

As long as free speech is not our rights, a real harmony will always be out of any Malaysian in Malaysia grasp. And as long as we live in a pseudo-harmony, we will always recognize ourselves as Malay, Chinese, Indian or God knows what else instead of as Malaysian. Finally, as we will recognize ourselves along racial line, the next May 13 is bound to happen all over again. It is just a matter of when.

While free speech will certainly go a long way to achieving racial harmony, I don?t think it is possible to eliminate the possibility of future racial riots. Witness the racial riots in countries with free speech like the US (LA) and UK (Bradford), which was again due to socio-economic disparity along racial lines as well as other reasons.

However, I think we can draw hope that the scale of riots, if another happens, will not be as bad as May 13. At least Kampung Medan didn?t involve hundreds of casualties.

[phantom]

but alas,amid this,amid NEPs,we still fail to cherish out melting-pot status.how many of us really have best friends from other races?how many of us will be willing to put race as the last thing in mind?

the only way for us not to repeat this tragedy is to appreciate the differences between us.but that is extremely hard when we even have those growns-up,be there parents and teachers who constantly tune the racial sentiments inside us.what about deragatory words we created to label other race?

how "grow-up" is a grown up then?

I also wrote this as my view,before you asked the same question.why people ignored this?


mr spaceship (sorry,i am not a lexicographer nor a winner of an international spelling bee competition),I am not here to debunk anyone.For Heaven sake,why?Would I be awarded a Nobel Prize in Literature for that?Would I be given cash for that? NO.I didnt have even an iota of intention of being a pugilist,what else debasing you.mind me,i didnt even use a single bad word right,not even BS.but i did let emotion to stir my decisions which of coz was lame.

but then again,if that did hurt you by any chance,then beyond my reasonable doubt,I should utter this,no harm intended from my side.dont marah2 or merajuk2 ok.can't pujuk.distance perhaps.

Think...while the NEP has no doubt given our country much benefit, there are also many downsides to it. If the aim of the NEP is to close the gap between rich and poor, why not open it to all races? Felda, Felcra, Petronas Twin Towers, etc. These are no doubt the successes of the NEP

glad i did make a point.

but have you ever given a thought to those who are languishing in povertry but do not deserve any aid because they are born the wrong skin color? You accuse me of seeing only what I want to see, but you are doing exactly the same thing. You only see the rosy and upside of the bumi policies, all the while ignoring the cauldron of racial misunderstanding and unfairness slowly simmering right under the aura or perfection you currently perceive. You speak of racial harmony and unity when you are oblivious to the fact that these very policies are dividing the nation by race. Do you see that? If you don't then maybe you should take a look inside some yahoo forums and see for yourself the racial thrashing there done by Malaysians. Maybe you haven't seen or heard any racial remarks that are really painful yet, painful enough to shatter your illusion of national perfection.


i am sorry of what you have read at yahoo forums.Perhaps,There are people whom their parents have never taught them that:cut your hands,and you'll see the same red blood from any human.

dont blame this policy alone.i'll expatiate about this later.but allow me to have the room,and retrorespect my own journey in the Bolehland.

I dont belong to the majority or the 2nd majority nor the 3rd.so that perfectly made me as a minority.dont gauge my race,becoz you will fail miserably.

you are mad becoz someone cleaved you apart in some site and for that you can complain to millions of ppl who will share the same irkness with you.but what if you a minority?the only ppl of a kind found in the a class in some homogenous school?what if someone made fun of you and the rest of class laugh,where will you go and complain? to Mr. LKS (a man most of you praise to the sky),or mr. badawi ( a man called as corrupted by few here),or mr. sammy vellu (the toll man) or any man?



i have to live with deragatory words all my lifetime.ppl are using that deragaroty words as josh. becoz malaysian,not just one race or 2 races,but almost all malaysian failed to learn how to respect others.they come out with terminology that satisfy them whenever they want.they dont care whether that terminology is making some race fading away.let alone,killing the race.

dont forget that amid finding these ppl as real ninnies,i have no pundit to speak out,for speaking out means,being outcasted.so choose,being ostracized or to live with that?freedom of speech?yeah right!!the next thing i know,i'll be ridiculed for my own being.

now,i found it a bit shacky when someone is mad with some race and blame it on the gov.

why are we divided?if you think it's all becoz the gov,then justify this:

in a class with multi-races in it,why we still opt to mix with those who shared the same culture as we did?coz we have different wavelength?or becoz we are too egocentric to mix with others?or becoz our parents have install this feeling of hatred inside each other?or becoz our parents failed to ask,why dont you mix with that boy or this boy?

dont blame the policy alone.even in usa,there's polarization.amid no NEP.why?

why only a few of us really know how to address people as human rather than from race?

becoz the policy?or becoz we are too ego?or becoz we only care about what please us?

social psychology anyone.

when the goverment tried to introduce sekolah wawasan,how many people they have to fight with?how many people who are willing to stick to the old good days?

when the gov open the places for the non-bumis in MRSM and matriculation,how many non-bumis really care to apply.sure the places are too small,but the applications were devastating.

why point your fingers at the gov then when even the so-called corrupted gov has taken the incentives to yoke us.

i am now in usa,the home of the brave and the free,yeap..far away from those who will think that i am entering their shops just to steal at some mall.even here,being a malaysian minority is weird.i see malaysians smiling at each other.but at the remote setting,eg:dinner,ppl start bashing each other.i found it weird,just now you just smile at that race.why now,you taunt that race?specials right ignited the settings.

is this happen becoz of the policy alone,or becoz ppl are using the policy to justify their lack of mutual understanding?

the former may be correct.but the latter seem worth asking too.

i am bored living with the pun that only certain races can excel in math or sciences,or certain race is dirty or certain race is smelly.or certain race is dark-skinned.i think it's hideous.

melentur buluh biar dari rebungnya.even in standard 1,we can see polarization,what else in our unis?

i think you should consider this too:you are mad with the ppl who are making fun of your blood.then is it ok for your blood to make fun of others too?

this is not of coz a forgone conclusion.

let put aside the finger pointing game,let's start with us.

let's start with our kids.teach them that when you befriended other races,you'll get a chance to go to their houses during raya or cny or diwali.teach them how to speak and play with each other.teach them that someone who has too much hair on his hand is not a gorilla.teach them also that when you have tanned skin,that doesnt mean you are lazy.teach them also that e'people in this world need respect and deserve that.

be honest in buidling friendships too,mind me,regardless of their skin tones.

i know i didnt answer all your questions,let this piece invigorate you 1st.i dont want to jump to the rumpus.

okay,wanna head to mc'd.

[ElansarGelmir]

With free speech, dialogues are possible and the real issues could be addressed without the fear of being detained for committing thought crime by the thought police. Without free speech, Malaysia would never reach a real kind of harmony. With this thought police around, free speech and freedom in general will always be a privilege instead of a right.

This in the part I am not completely convinced about. Certainly, I would very much hope this to be the case, but can we really be sure that in a situation with free speech, the relevant issues can be addressed successfully ?

Do you mean universally or in Malaysia? To be frank, i don't think Malaysia's at that level where free speech won't cause riots coz we are not even racially integrated. In Singapore (sorry for keep on using this eg. coz it's the next country which i'm familiar with), the citizens are allowed to voice out whatever they are not contented with (i think they can even bash the govt). And yet they managed to maintain a peaceful environment, and have their problems heard by the govt.

[__earth]

Certainly, I would very much hope this to be the case, but can we really be sure that in a situation with free speech, the relevant issues can be addressed successfully ?

I am sure the necessary issues will be addressed. I think human society is like water, it will spread everywhere given there is no restriction ? analogously to free speech. With free speech, everybody will almost certainly talks about anything related to them.

How do we know that the majority of opinions will be rational discussions, instead of emotional accusations ? And if the latter, is it possible that such accusations may make matters even worse between the races ?

If the government rolled back the ISA and other restrictions to freedom, I agree with you that there might be some heated discussion among members of the society. It only takes maturity to not to pull punches.

I also somehow don?t think most Malaysians are matured enough to discuss racial issue. You have implied the same thing in your last post and I understand and again, I agree with you.

But consider this - with a law that restricts freedom, the needed maturity is absent. This is because maturity needs practice. All of us become mentally matured only when we have lived for years. Sometimes, we might not even be matured as we retire from the labor force. It?s the experience that brings that maturity.

In parallel, in order for Malaysians to achieve the needed maturity to discuss things properly at the table, we need to experience free speech. Again, through experience, we will be able to discuss anything, including racial issues at the table without pulling the riot trigger.

IMO, people that are against the abolishment of such restrictive law are afraid of taking the next step; the next step of which, might incite ugly argument between races.

But think of it as medicine. If you want to get well, you have to take the medicine.

While free speech will certainly go a long way to achieving racial harmony, I don?t think it is possible to eliminate the possibility of future racial riots. Witness the racial riots in countries with free speech like the US (LA) and UK (Bradford), which was again due to socio-economic disparity along racial lines as well as other reasons.

Yes, it is impossible to fully prevent anything, but we could reduce the chances of a thing from happening.

However, I think we can draw hope that the scale of riots, if another happens, will not be as bad as May 13. At least Kampung Medan didn?t involve hundreds of casualties.

I don't share your optimism but that is for you and me to see in the future.

Do you mean universally or in Malaysia? To be frank, i don't think Malaysia's at that level where free speech won't cause riots coz we are not even racially integrated. In Singapore (sorry for keep on using this eg. coz it's the next country which i'm familiar with), the citizens are allowed to voice out whatever they are not contented with (i think they can even bash the govt). And yet they managed to maintain a peaceful environment, and have their problems heard by the govt.

Nope. I don't think. Singapore is an authoritarian state. Singapore's situation is no more better than Malaysia because the state controls the press. Freedom of press in Singapore is low relative to industrialized countries, the same as Malaysia. In fact, I would say Indonesia has the freest press in SEA.

In fact, Singapore is a famous paradox in political science as a friend once told me. They managed to developed their country successfully without free speech whereas, free speech is associated with a country level of advancement.

[ElansarGelmir]

Don't get me wrong here. These speeches do not involve the press. They merely get up on stage, and gave some public speaking about various issues they want to talk about. People are free to go and listen, and to counter their points if they like to.

[topdog]

let's not limit ourselves to singapore's model! s'pore is an anomaly. lky basically had free rein to mould s'pore according to his vision. s'pores demography, population, size, location, and the circumstances surrounding its birth allowed him to do so.

m'sia has so much more potential!

[oxherd]

Nope. I don't think. Singapore is an authoritarian state. Singapore's situation is no more better than Malaysia because the state controls the press. Freedom of press in Singapore is low relative to industrialized countries, the same as Malaysia. In fact, I would say Indonesia has the freest press in SEA.

According to RSF, the freest press in SEA would be in Thailand. And Malaysia ranks significantly better than Singapore. In fact, most African and Middle East countries, and even Afghanistan (gasp !) ranks better than Singapore.

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=8247


m'sia has so much more potential!


I do believe in that frequently invoked mantra, the only problem is I wish the results would manifest faster !

[Randomphantom]

Since Singapore and Malaysia are both similarly (ok, Sg moreso) oppressive in press and freedom of speech, I wonder how they dealt with racism to arrive at their current situation being radically different from Malaysia. Now does freedom of speech really bring about racial harmony then?

Or do we need an authoritarian rule to silence those who are not mature enough to conduct responsible discussions? There will and always will be people that abuse their freedom of speech wanting to make themselves heard, stir things up. Silence them? or risk, what you call that, a riot happening?

And what will this government do then? It will then be their sole responsibility in ensuring the racial harmony of the people. No more blaming on the immature bunch for not being open minded when all you have to do is just to force it down their throats.

I personally don't believe in an authoritarian rule. But maybe, that may be the only way to racial harmony.

Stereotyping happens. And we are all guilty of that one way or the other when we always see one side of a race. Its easy to say 'start with us'. Yet these differences force us to come out of our comfort zones to accomodate people. To put away all our differences and say that 'we are of the same blood, treat us all the same way' is to openly disregard/show our ignorance for other cultures. Every culture has to be treated equally-with regard to their cultures and yet when cultural values clash, thats when we have to rethink our situation - to give? or take?

And another thing, to ignore the differences - the priviliges/status/socioeconomic - is to forego any chances of attaining racial harmony. NEP is labelled by some as a racist policy only because it attempted to address the differences of each races. Racist or not, it was a step towards racial harmony. Can I openly say that 'all (insert a race here) are (less well off/are more superior/etc) hence the need to adjust the differences' without sounding racist? Of course, fact and fiction need to be distinguished here.

My point is, denying truths and writing them off as 'racism' will not be helping to achieve our goal of racial harmony.