Becoming a doctor in KL with a degree from Australia

[Stalvros]

Just wanted to clarify something here.
Hope that someone could answer my query.

1st -
Is it true that now it requires one to work for a minimum of 2 years as an intern to be qualified as an officer in Malaysia?

2nd -
Say that you've already completed your internship in Australia/Singapore for a year (meaning you're an officer) and you come back to Malaysia to work as a doctor, is it true that you have to DO your internship again for another 2 years?

3rd -
What are the phone numbers that I can call to make queries like this?
I'm kinda looking for some HRM in Medicine situated in KL at the moment.
Been googling for a while now and i didn't find anything~

[youngyew]

Just wanted to clarify something here.
Hope that someone could answer my query.

1st -
Is it true that now it requires one to work for a minimum of 2 years as an intern to be qualified as an officer in Malaysia?

2nd -
Say that you've already completed your internship in Australia/Singapore for a year (meaning you're an officer) and you come back to Malaysia to work as a doctor, is it true that you have to DO your internship again for another 2 years?

3rd -
What are the phone numbers that I can call to make queries like this?
I'm kinda looking for some HRM in Medicine situated in KL at the moment.
Been googling for a while now and i didn't find anything~
Yup, 2 years of housemanship (=internship) and 3 years of HMO. I am not sure about question 2 and 3, but do try the Malaysian Medical Resource website at www.medicine.com.my (http://www.medicine.com.my). Those are doctors practising in Malaysia who are quite familiar with the system.

[Stalvros]

kind of dumb if you ask me :(
why am i wasting my time doing 2 years of internship
when i can just do it in other countries -_-

I'll ask more about the 2nd and 3rd one.
Please let me know if you find some answers.

[Koschei]

kind of dumb if you ask me :(
why am i wasting my time doing 2 years of internship
when i can just do it in other countries -_-

Well, the diseases that you encounter in a humid, tropical climate (Malaysia) greatly differ from the diseases that you'd encounter in a temperate climate (Australia). Apart from that, the working conditions might differ greatly from the kind of working conditions you have in Australia (doctor to patient ratio, nurses, medical equipment, etc..). The type of people you treat here would also be different. They might be less informed (or more, depending on where you go), their genes would predispose them to different diseases, etc.

A few points to consider.

[Stalvros]

Well,i did consider that.

Hmmm anyways at the moment im not too worried about the internship year.
Im more worried about the 2nd question~

[day_dreamer]

Is it true that Monash offers Medical Degree that allows student to conduct their internship in Australia ??

[youngyew]

Eer what do you mean? Are you referring to Monash Malaysia?

[Stalvros]

all i know is that JPA will NOT allow you to work in Australia for 1 year after you graduate. They want you to come back ASAP!!

The reason why you want to work in Aussie for a year is so that you can become a registered doctor in Australia. After that by all means, go back to Malaysia and work.

But still......
if you're telling me that after 1 year working in Aussie, you'll still need to finish 2 years of intern work to become officer in Malaysia, that kinda sucks -_-

[day_dreamer]

Eer what do you mean? Are you referring to Monash Malaysia?

Ya.. I'm referring to Monash Malaysia in Sunway.

[Stalvros]

Can anyone recommend some of the good hospitals that's
good to work at in KL? Include the websites too if possible?

[youngyew]

Do you mean elective?

UH, HUKM and HKL are all potentially good because they are all teaching hospitals so they should be used to having students.

[Stalvros]

I also heard that election's taking place soon
I hope this internship rule for 2 years will change -_-
It's seriously not fair.

Career wise, i dont know why anyone would settle for that
if they can just complete it in 1 year in other place~

[duke23]

I also heard that election's taking place soon
I hope this internship rule for 2 years will change -_-
It's seriously not fair.

Career wise, i dont know why anyone would settle for that
if they can just complete it in 1 year in other place~

actually if you have issues with that..just dont go back home then.There are ppl wanting to serve even in such circumstances,we should not discourage them

[Miracle_seed]

The internship was extended to two years due to incompetence of some housemen, especially some local graduates...

[Stalvros]

The internship was extended to two years due to incompetence of some housemen, especially some local graduates...

but that's 'local' :(
we're like graduates from overseas
quite unfair really..........

and judging from my HES attachment,
the standard of the local graduates are.........
........... really low -_-.

actually if you have issues with that..just dont go back home then.There are ppl wanting to serve even in such circumstances,we should not discourage them

read the part where i mentioned that JPA
does not allow one to do internship for 1 year in australia
after you graduate?

[youngyew]

but that's 'local' :(
we're like graduates from overseas
quite unfair really..........

and judging from my HES attachment,
the standard of the local graduates are.........
........... really low -_-.

read the part where i mentioned that JPA
does not allow one to do internship for 1 year in australia
after you graduate?
I am not sure who you worked with, but many local graduates (those who are not repeatedly detained and repeated, obviously) are competent and well trained in clinical skills. I find it inappropriate for you to imply that you are better since you are "like graduates from overseas".

As already mentioned before by someone in this thread, clinical practice involves knowledge, procedural and management skills that are very dependent on the spectrum of clinical picture in the area you work in. If you do your medicine in Australia, I bet you are not gonna be competent in diagnosing and managing dengue fever which is epidemic in Malaysia. And I am sure for this particular case, your "not as competent" local colleagues are likely to be more competent than you. Also, not all government hospitals are gonna be replete with a great stock of antibiotics listed in the therapeutic guideline - and your decision in situations like this will depend a lot on the real life experience.

I have always wished JPA would allow us to do internship for one year after graduation too. But apart from the grueling working hours, I would say that working in Malaysian hospital is advantageous in that it gives you lots more hands on experience compared to internship in Australia.

[duke23]

read the part where i mentioned that JPA
does not allow one to do internship for 1 year in australia
after you graduate?[/QUOTE]


yeah..what has that got to do with the questions you asked?Unless you are a JPA scholar which you fail to mention in your previous posts.Im sorry if i missed out anything else.

Precisely youngyew.I also feel that its quite inappropriate to berrate local graduates just because you studied overseas.

[Stalvros]

My apologies if my words are harmful~
It's not within my intention to 'berrate' local graduates.

In any case, i would still like to know nonetheless with the answer to the 2nd question.
I'll try looking out for more answers but thanks for all your help though.

Ummm with regards to experience, i think it really depends to which UNI you went to in Australia.
I am from Univeristy Of Newcastle. As you know, its the very first Uni that practice PBL (Problem Based
Learning) in Medicine practice.

So instead of like flipping through text books for 1st,2nd year,
you'll be placed in the hospital right away given real cases as well as practice.
It ain't the same practice as Melb U where the first 3 years from what i heard is the same as
what the students from Bio Med are going through (which is...... just purely text book flipping bases)

Another reason why i would like to bash the medicine policy in Malaysia is because
it's really very disadvantegous to be working there as
1st - the 2 years internship thingy (Well, okay for you guys and some local graduates maybe)
2nd - they aren't as protected as the doctors in Australia and Singapore (Lawsuits)
3rd - pay's crap too :( (On-call is RM100 -_-)
(I've gotta drag my sleepy arse at 2am and drive through the terrible traffic and im only given that much?)
(Fine if i'm in it for the experience, but still......)
4th - interns get treated practically like crap (From what i heard from lots of intern dudes there)

So my plan at the moment is perhaps to just work as an intern for 1 year
in Australia before coming back to Malaysia to work. However, i also heard from one of my
friend in Malaysia that the M'sian government won't give you credit even if you did your internship
in Australia. The moment you land your foot in the hospital, you STILL need to do the 2 years internship
thingy. This is what i want to confirm!!

[duke23]

well spore's working hours are just as gruellingif not worse.A lot of the MO's in Spore "ran" away to NZ

which university areyou studying stalvros?melb uni?

[Stalvros]

University Of Newcastle
(Thought i mentioned that in my previous post)

I got an offer from Melb U, but the the med degree there
is like 6 years :(. Newcastle Uni only offers 5 years~
(Pretty recognized too in Medicine degree)

As for Singapore, i got this offer that allows me to become
a specialist in a selective major within 5 years (including internship)

Treatment's gonna be HELL but........ come on........
specialist within 5 years? Theoretically i can open my own branch
when i reach like 32 years old. That's really fast if you ask me. So i dont
mind being treated like crap when the benefit's that good~

As for M'sia, treated like crap and what?
Specialist at the age of 40+?
(Once again, i don't mean to bash, i mean..... I just want to know what other options i have before actually settling down)

PS: I've also read cases where there are LOTS of scholars who chose to just
run away and not pay their bond as they are offered better overseas.
With how crappy the policy and benefits in M'sia is, I don't blame them :(

[duke23]

newcastle was the first uni to implement PBL in medicine?i thought one of the canadian uni's pioneered this..specialist withink 5 years in spore?really?are they really giving out specialist opportunities so freely??My mom was a visiting lecturer in the faculty of medicine of NUS..i dont think she has mentioned this.im always of the impression that only the residency programmes in america let you become a specialist in 5 years after graduation..and again if u are a qualified specialist from let say australia or UK..if u want to work in america they still make you start from PGY-1.And after that you are expected to do fellowships for most specialities..in order for you to get jobs in the hospitals..if u are a jpa scholar you'll be bonded for 10 years anyway..so why worry abt the 2 years of internship?what's your bond penalty like?160k?

well in my opinion..melbourne uni is superior to the other uni's..what more in medicine.and then probably unsw,adelaide..newcastle is kinda down there in the list.and i've heard a lot of ppl talk smack abt newcastle uni(australia)..and its not nice when you hear ppl talk smack abt your institution..so likewise..lets not condemn the local uni's.
on the other hand my friend got so insulted when she graduated from newcastle uk and ppl thought she graduated from newcastle australia..as you know newcastle in the Uk is quite prestigious for medicine as opposed to newcastle australia....and only recently its been added to the SMc's full registration list.whereas melbourne uni has been recognized by SMC ages ago..i suppose that says a lot.

[Stalvros]

To be honest, i dont know how much is the bond penalty.
All i know is that i have a senior who paid off RM200k for it.
(But that's different! I have a feeling that she paid cheap cause she's malay)

I don't mean to sound racist but seriously.....
the chinese has to go through HELL before they get this scholarship
compared to the malay people.

And the bad thing about this shitty bond is that there's no BLACK and WHITE sum which they SHOULD state in the papers at all.
It just says 10 years and then 'nothing'. Meaning for all i know, they could've just asked you to pay like RM1Billion to brake off the bond -_-.

Also, in the past before i signed on this bond, they mentioned that you are allowed
to accompany your spouse for a maximum of 4 years after you graduate before you
return to Malaysia to work. Last I spoke to the JPA representative in Sydney, they changed
the rule -_-. (You can't really do anything because you're under their mercy and since there's no black and
white statement made about this in the paper, they could just do ANYTHING to make the situation favors
them and that might include jeopardizing your entire future for their comforting life)

I have been calling the department but seriously..... they DON'T PICK UP AT ALL!
They wasted like AUD120.00 giving unclear answers and crappy advice -_-.
That's why i really REALLY need to know about this internship thingy.

What i want answered is this.........
Say that you've already completed your internship in Australia/Singapore for a year (meaning you're an officer) and you come back to Malaysia to work as a doctor, is it true that you have to DO your internship again for another 2 years?

PS: Ill give you the contact of the HRM who offered me this 5 years specialist
working in Singapore thingy if you're interested. And no..... it sure ain't deal from
heaven either. There's the downfall as well but..... it's quite worth running through
that road just so that you can earn 5 figures during your early 30s

Also, what my senior did was to work in Australia first before she pays off the bond.
However, the policy has changed now in Australia in a sense that they require some sort of 'clearance' from JPA.

Meaning, I can't really walk the same road my senior took.
I've been e-mailing them, calling them; asking them how much it will be to pay off the bond. No reply......... Didn't pick up the phone....... *sigh*

[duke23]

actually there's no such thing as 200k.I know of two ppl who paid of 160 k(full programme uk) and one who paid of 130 k..(imu twinning)..Also you should read the contract carefully once again..The penalty nowadays is paying back every single sent in full what they have spent on you in 1 lump sum..(which is why i didnt bother applying for jpa)so dont waste your time asking..nothing will change if the sum is not mentioned.as you said..you are at their mercy.

5 figures?what about aiming for 6?lol.a lot of specialists earn 6 figures now so if a specialist is what you are going to become after 5 years...and if money is what you are thinking of...aim for 6..because if u stand at 5..you are among the lower rungs especially in spore..

well im not even in med school yet but i have a few ppl in my family who are into medicine..plus spore is the last place i would want to practice.thanks for the offer though.If i were to go back,i'd rather go back to malaysia than to singapore..Malaysia is not fantastic,but i still have a malaysian passport and people in malaysia are a lot more humbler.( im talking abt the masses and not the politicians)

Maybe im not thinking so much about monetary gains because i suppose i can afford not too.

[Stalvros]

uhhhh with regards to the 5-6 figures,
i mean.... you get my drill mate -_-.
(Don't take my words to literally)

Well anyways, at the moment what are some of the private sector hospitals that i can look for in Malaysia anyways?
I don't really have a connection there,
just thought that i'd ask for someone who's experienced in here?

And yes, i agree with you with regards to people in Malaysia that are more humble.
(Thats why i DID mention that there will be downfall working in Singapore)

PS:
Fine, let me pay, just give me the paperworks already JPA......
ahhhhhhh~
So inefficient :(

[duke23]

just send a cheque to jpa .they'll be happy to take it im sure;).if the sum you send is not enough just top it up till they are happy.

private sector hospitals in malaysia would not accept you if you are not registered with the MMC..thus that means you are not licensed to practice in malaysia.You would also need to finish you compulsory service before you can opt for that.

i was wondering..why did u take the scholarship if you dont want to serve to gov?

i feel spore super untung..all our jpa scholars aiming to work there..and this includes those who studied engineering ,accountancy etc..why give out scholarships in the first place?to benefit our own country or our southern neighbour?i find this absolutely sickening

[Stalvros]

I took the scholarship thinking that the prospect would be good.
After hearing that you get treated like crap, oh well :(

Actually i dont really mind working in Msia.
But at least let me do it after 1 year of internship in Australia to become a registered doctor. Not that i plan to live in Aussie but...... you know, just precaution~

As for the cheque, it doesn't really matter if i sent it.
I mean, i dont even know how much~
Also i needed the clearance too. Knowing how sloppy they work, i won't even know if they'd give me the clearance letter after they took my money -_-.

Can you tell me more about this private sector thing?
At least give me some few hospitals to google and i'll figure the rest from there.

[duke23]

i'll pm you

[jay3349]

Hey Stalvros,

I have been wondering about the same questions for some time now. I am in my 2nd year at UWA Med. I am a JPA scholar as well. I've been asking around about this whole issue of registration to the two boards (The Australian Medical Association (AMA) and The Malaysian Medical Council (MMC)).

It seems, from what I have heard so far, the Malaysian Government does not allow registration to the MMC until you have done the 2 years internship/housemanship. But the AMA is more liberal in that sense. Since we are Australian trained, they allow us to complete our internship somewhere else and still be registered with them. We just have to sit for the same exams the local interns and PGY officers sit for and pay the yearly membership fee. This is all based on what I have pieced together from various people. (Local GPs from Singapore, Local Interns, Faculty) But nobody seems quite so sure. I have not bothered calling the AMA yet because I am only in my second year.

So, Stalvros, I hope you can keep posting up your story as it would be really helpful to all of us Australian medical graduates in this situation. I also hope you could post up what exactly you are doing right now. Are you an intern in Australia, final year student about to graduate, or an intern in Malaysia? That would really help put the whole story in perspective.

I hope that helps. And again, I hope you could keep posting up your story. Thank you.

[Stalvros]

Yes, you need to take some sort of 'exam' to be a registered doctor.
But if you work for 1 year for internship in Australia, you'll be a registered doctor straight away.

At the moment i am in my final year.
Hmmmm, so the Malaysian Government does not allow registration to the MMC until you have done the 2 years internship/housemanship. That's kinda dumb -_-. It's like saying that they do not accept talents from anywhere else but the Malaysian 2 years internship............

This is why they lose out.
Hey duke, remember you saying that you find it absolutely sickening?
I mean come on. Look its like this. Singapore and Australia are smart. They say, let someone else pay for their training, all we have to offer are bigger baits so that the fishes will be more attracted to us! Let someone else pay for the worm!

Whereas for the M'sian Government, they're like......
We don't care if someone else pay for the worm!
The fish that we reel in must come out of the worm that WE pay for -_-.
So much for opportunities seriously. I don't know whether to call them stupid or just plain naive.

[duke23]

Well ,again i feel that your comments are tantamount to "labelling" people who do serve to gov as inferior.Lets put it this way,quite a few of them feel that its their duty to serve their bond as per agreement.Malaysia still provides a great environment for doctors who are experienced,they services and contribution will definitely be duely rewarded.Just to let you know a lot of top surgeons and specialists in malaysia do earn a lot more than doctors in australia and the UK and pay less tax.in the Uk a consultant gets paid 150 thousand quids (and its quite unlikely you will get a consultant position untill you are 45+++which is not that much and its abt 300 thousand year n australia..even after conversion i can guarantee you i know a lot of doctors in malaysia earn more than that.Money will always come in if you have conscience and do the right thing..and if u are good u are good..no matter where you are.

Just how many doctors singapore needs and how many are able to get posgrad training in spore?its a small country with a population of less than 5 million.

i agree,malaysian government is stupid.but i think its intentional as they never learn from their mistakes.They should follow brunei where bond breakers will have to pay twice the amount spent on them.Then the "rich" will think twice about abusing the scholarship.at this point it seems to be a free ride.And i say intentional because this rules and regulations were probably meant for a certain group of ppl.

[Stalvros]

Not that -_-.
I don't mean people who serve the government as inferior.

Look, i really think ultimately, its what you want.
Here in Singapore as you know, all Singaporeans guys are required to serve NS (National Service) for 2 years where you get to learn how to clean the toilet nicely and also get shitty pay. It's the same thing! You say that you do it for 'the honor', fine, just do that then if it makes you happy.

Problem is that not all of us seek 'honor'.
I know money is not everything, but i also DO know that we NEED money to support our family. It's not that i am not satisfied with what the government is paying us. It's just that if we have better opportunity elsewhere, why not? I mean...... I guess it really depends with what you're happy with la~

As for how many doctors does Singapore needs, apparently a LOT.
You do know that at the moment Singapore seeks foreign talent. For that, they're like hiring foreigners giving them free PR while the Singaporeans are stuck doing NS. To the Singaporeans, there are really unfair of course.

Sigh, lets not go there.
I just hate politics at the moment :(.

I really don't mind working for the Msian govt.
But at least can they like..... top up the offer to what others are offering?
It's BUSINESS after all. If they cant, i might as well pay the 200k (or whatever amount) and earn it back while working somewhere else :(

Well anyways lets just stop flaming each other for a while here.
Get back to the main topic~

[duke23]

here in spore?i thought you were in newcastle..

the gov of msia gave you the opportunity so i suppose its fair for your to "use" it to your advantage.

i know i know..everyone seems to be "talented" in spore,i guess its the same,many sporeans are seeking greener pastures elsewhere so they need "foreign talent" to fill in those "gaps"

[Stalvros]

Oh just came back for my attachment which i chose to do in Singapore.
I'll go back later~

Actually there are a LOT of politics that's unfair too in Singapore -_-.
But yeah i wonder if i can speak to some one who's in charge of this Msia doctor license.

I mean come on....
I'm not saying that those who did 2 years intern in Msia is MORE qualified for the approved license or anything, but don't just ignore those who did interns elsewhere :(.

Make USE of the opportunity given at least~

[Miracle_seed]

I was wondering, say, they let you do an extra year of internship instead of 2 years. what do you think?

[Stalvros]

Hmmmmm, that's okay i suppose.
It WILL be better if i don't have to go through the internship year at all,

..........but okay if you ask me to just go through for 1 more.
I still won't be 100% happy but at least i'll bitch less~
(At least i'm already a registered doctor in Australia by then)

Look, it's like this.......
M'sian govt wants their overseas graduate to come back to work?
OK! we will! But why should we if offers outside are better?

What doctors are really more concerned about are definitely the salary
and the safety. (Some who only aims to be doctors because of 'honor' wont
look for the salary but for the glory, but i still think that they will still look
for the safety)

When you get treated like crap during the intern year, the other thing that
can motivate you would be;
- condition of work
- your salary
...... and working in a M'sia govt hospital just doesn't give you these 2 benefits that other
countries are willing to give :(

I mean, you see......
Think about it.........
You HAVE to spend an extra year doing intern, get treated like crap, and might get your
license revoked just because some rich bastard in Msia don't like the way you treat him/her
as he/she sues your 5-6 years of medical ass for it~

[youngyew]

I am of the impression that when you work in the general hospital as a houseman, your indemnity is covered under the government, i.e. you can't be sued individually for medical negligence. That was what someone told me many years ago before I started uni. Can anyone verify that?

[Stalvros]

hmmm i read an article once where a houseman got
sued during her 2 years of internship and nearly got
her license revoked~

I forgot what she's done wrong but i think this is before the
new policy was implemented.

[kintaro_kun]

why did you choose to study medicine in the first place? i tot the housemanship issue was already known to you be4 you put in your choice of courses to be applied?

[duke23]

yes youngyew gov doctors are covered.Private sector doctors also have medical protection services available to them and the rate of getting sued is much less in malaysia when you compare to the other countries.stalvros..go make your quick buck by all means.who is stopping you la?JPA?then deal with them.you said you can pay them..so do it..a lot of ppl have done it in the past im sure as long as you meet their terms and conditions they'll free you.i know someone who paid 900k in 1 lump sum..and she's abroad now..no issues.JPA even thanked her for paying back in a letter and released her.

[Stalvros]

WHoa!
900k XD

I just bought my phone card, gonna call them again tomorrow~

[duke23]

are you sure you contract doesn't state the amount u have to pay back in the case of bond breaching?cos most of them had it stated as bayar balik segala yang dibelanjakan if its not 160k or 130k.

Yeah i just asked her again cos she's my sister's colleague.So she said what she did was her dad went down to JPA and asked for the lejar pelajar,and that would give you the exact details of the payment that has been made(tuition,allowance and everything).He wrote a cheque for the entire amount there and then.She studied in glasgow based and my knowledge,these good universities charge a lot in tuition and ppl still go there.(high demand)..the figure might be much less for newcastle australia for the following reasons:

1:much less reputable than the group of 8 unis and uni's such as glasgow or other uk unis for that matter
2.Location and cost of living

so 900k is not fixed for everyone.it varies.

The other thing you should know is that quite often..when a country/company wants to poach a "talent" from their respective sponsors,typically they offer the individual to pay off the bond and whatever "baggage" that came along with the sponsorship in monetary terms and offer a lucrative deal for the particular individual as well....so maybe,if your talent is much needed elsewhere ,you could demand for such an arrangement.then you wouldnt be burdened by the fact that you need to reimburse the entire amount spent by a nation in giving you a medical education.but hey..from what i know..some countries only take in "talented" ppl from their neighbours....when it comes at NO COST..aka absolutley FREE.You should also realize there's a distinct difference between poaching REAL Talents and just general recruitment of ppl to make up the numbers in a particular workforce. Singapore for example, is smart enough to distinguish between these two groups..Offering Junior medical officer positions is essentially a recruitment drive more than anything else.Mind you there are also many doctors from the Phillipines working in Singapore as MO's so it doesn't take much to be recruited there la..need not be a fancy aussie or uk grad

I hope you dont bleat over this because i feel the gaucheness of my comments are very much warranted for in this circumstances.These are just facts.NO hard feelings and i wish you all the best in your quest..............

[Stalvros]

Nope, im pretty sure it's not written.
I read it like 5X already :(
I got it 5 years ago, year 2003.
Perhaps it will be stated in the newer JPA contract?

No problem at all, im taking everything as an input at the moment.
Let me know if you find out anything about the 2nd question i asked.

[youngyew]

You are the 1985 batch? It was written in mine. In bold font. In fact they stamped it. It's in the contract signed by you and your two guarantors.

Anyway... Sigh. I shall write more when I have some time. But I think there's a huge communication gap between what the public understand about the situation faced by the scholars and what the scholars think is right and justful. Okay I just realised the last sentence sounds really vague. I will elaborate later in the day.

[Stalvros]

1984 badge, not 1985
umm, think you can send me a copy of yours in that case?

[youngyew]

No it's at home, not with me.

[duke23]

if im not mistaken 1983 was the last batch to sign the 160k/130k contract.1984 have to pay back in full unless they did their a levels on their own and flew off with the 1983 on their own.as for 1985 ,they were made to sign contracts of 160k and it was later switched for pay back full for most ppl

[Stalvros]

Hmph i called the lady and she told me that she is unable to give me the full amount as of the moment.

She told me that i will have to report back in to the officer
and discuss the full amount there instead -_-.

Looks like there's no escape but to waste 1 extra year just
to do my internship then *sigh*

[duke23]

Hmph i called the lady and she told me that she is unable to give me the full amount as of the moment.

She told me that i will have to report back in to the officer
and discuss the full amount there instead -_-.

Looks like there's no escape but to waste 1 extra year just
to do my internship then *sigh*

hey check your inbox

[tehjiao]

Well, If u think that serving in Malaysia government hospital doesn't worth the scholarship, then to pay it back in full amount or reject it at the first place should not be a problem. Otherwise how can someone expect to get Malaysia tax payers support students (RM900k/person) to study medicine overseas and breach the contract without paying in full amount? It's unfair for the tax payer like u and me.

Talking about internship, I agree that internship in Malaysia sucks, but don't forget a fresh graduate without any clinical experience worth nothing . Even a oversea trained doctors who are not yet specialised in any field but completed internship oversea may not be competence to meet local need as they are trained for different system in different country. U won't encounter any cystic fibrosis patients here in malaysia but it's a must-know knowledge in UK/europe. There may not be any tropical disease such as malaria, typhoid and dengue and chikunkunya in australia/england but these are butter and bread for local doctors. Local doctors need to be all-rounder which u can perform basic obstetric ultrasound scan (BPL,FL,EFW,AFI)for antenatal patients, reading CTG, perform ARM, IOL, augment labour in labour room, running Chest Clinic for Tuberculosis treatment, adapt to old-day diagnostic method without the aid of latest technology for scan/blood test, perform CMR, apply POP for fracture limbs, perform peritoneal dialysis/chest tube/central venous line.setting IV access for newborns and paediatric patients, all these are my daily duty as a medical officer in a district hospital.

[Stalvros]

Yeah i understand with regards to experience.
Just that it used to be 1 year internship instead of 2.
If it so happened that they CHANGED the system again, it just means that those who did 2 years wasted 1 extra year and that's what makes it unfair seriously. Knowing Msian government, i don't think they're going to say 'oh hey sorry we make you waste 1 extra year, here's 1billion RM for compensation'

The JPA lady also told me that SIngapore's stealing their students.
And in my mind, i'd say, heck yeah why not?
No need to increase the salary for doctors working in Msia, that's fine.
Just REDUCE the intern year back to 1 please -_-

[duke23]

she told that to you?direcctly?

[tehjiao]

Yeah i understand with regards to experience.
Just that it used to be 1 year internship instead of 2.
If it so happened that they CHANGED the system again, it just means that those who did 2 years wasted 1 extra year and that's what makes it unfair seriously. Knowing Msian government, i don't think they're going to say 'oh hey sorry we make you waste 1 extra year, here's 1billion RM for compensation'

The JPA lady also told me that SIngapore's stealing their students.
And in my mind, i'd say, heck yeah why not?
No need to increase the salary for doctors working in Msia, that's fine.
Just REDUCE the intern year back to 1 please -_-

i understand that extending the internship to 2 years won't be good news for most of the new doctors, however i myself also go through complete 2 years internship (Medicine, O&G, Pediatric,Orthopedic, Surgery and A&E), though it's not compulsory for my batch and some of my friends only completed 1 year intern and become medical officer there after but i don't regret/upset about my 2 years intern training. I gain alot of crucial experience especially when i service in district hospital which need u to handle the whole hospital at your own. I;m more confidence than other colleagues who didn't complete all 6 rotations and it actually benefits the patients which i treat. The only drawback about this new system is the time that new doctors need to stay in government service is extended from 4 years (1year intern+ 3 years compulsory service) to 5 years (2years intern + 3 years compulsory service).
anyway, personally i don consider the 5 years duration is a big problem as if u want to further train to become specialist, u need to stay in government hospital for >5years to achieve. for example, after u complete 1-2 years intern, u may start to apply for Master programme (4 years course) or MRCP/MRCPCH (3 papers usually take 2.5-5 years to pass). Unless u want to become a GP/ordinary MO, i don think that 5 years in government service is a big deal. Just my 2 cents.

Well,this is a news in year 2005, and then an email from a medical student who study in Ireland, do share with u all. :)

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{This is a story of money down the drain. As many as 100 Malaysians educated in Ireland at a cost of between RM60 million and RM100 million to become doctors have turned their backs on the country. If this news is not depressing enough, there are suggestions that they are encouraging other Malaysian students not to return home but to make a living in Europe

[masterof_none]

I hope those who studies overseas (esp funded by JPA) will come back and serve and be a good doctor in Malaysia.
Work hand in hand with the local grads because as someone pointed out previously, they might know more on the local context, than those who study overseas.
Plus, just because we studying overseas, that doesn't mean that we're superior, in fact, it could be the other way around, especially if we're dealing with locals.

So be a good doctor, serve the people right, and enjoy your profession. Be honest to yourself.
I don't mind if you want to get good money by working overseas, but that's your call.

Don't come here because you're forced to (that should come to your mind when you accept the JPA scholarship). Because that's going to be tough.

[Stalvros]

Yeah i know :(.
I'm trying to enjoy what i'm doing instead of being forced.
But the 2 years internship is really pissing me off at the moment.

I also heard that you can't choose the hospitals you go to when you come back.
What happens if they assign you to some ulu backwater hospitals? -_-

So 1st i have to do 2 years of internship,
then i have to battle the mosquitoes and prevent myself from getting sick because of the crappy hospitals WHILE curing people who are sick~

[Miracle_seed]

Yeah i know :(.
I'm trying to enjoy what i'm doing instead of being forced.
But the 2 years internship is really pissing me off at the moment.

I also heard that you can't choose the hospitals you go to when you come back.
What happens if they assign you to some ulu backwater hospitals? -_-

So 1st i have to do 2 years of internship,
then i have to battle the mosquitoes and prevent myself from getting sick because of the crappy hospitals WHILE curing people who are sick~I think JPA is now sending less students to UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand, while increasing places for twinning and other countries, to ensure that the scholars come back after graduate (some will graduate in Malaysia), apart from cutting down the cost...

As far as I know, hospitals for internship will be at least district hospital, that I don't think it will be very "ulu" to be a district hospital...

[Stalvros]

can't i request that i wish to work in a certain hospital?
I want to be near my fiancee and my family :(
I'm soooo paying them off seriously if i cant even have that~

If i can contact Ministry of Health, I'd tell him seriously......
just cut it down to 1 year internship. I would come back.
I've got a few MARA batch here as well who will come back.

Don't mind the salary.
(Don't decrease it though)

[duke23]

so if you work in singapore you didnt mind being away from them? ^_^..
very interesting

No point asking your questions and putting your conditions here.No one will be able to give you a decent answer.

And forget about the MARA scholars.Their scholarship is "donated" to them.haha..that's one of the reason jpa scholars dont want to go back to malaysia..because they compare themselves with the "luckier" mara scholars...which i think is VERY acceptable.

[wgy589]

University Of Newcastle
(Thought i mentioned that in my previous post)

I got an offer from Melb U, but the the med degree there
is like 6 years :(. Newcastle Uni only offers 5 years~
(Pretty recognized too in Medicine degree)

As for Singapore, i got this offer that allows me to become
a specialist in a selective major within 5 years (including internship)

Treatment's gonna be HELL but........ come on........
specialist within 5 years? Theoretically i can open my own branch
when i reach like 32 years old. That's really fast if you ask me. So i dont
mind being treated like crap when the benefit's that good~

As for M'sia, treated like crap and what?
Specialist at the age of 40+?
(Once again, i don't mean to bash, i mean..... I just want to know what other options i have before actually settling down)

PS: I've also read cases where there are LOTS of scholars who chose to just
run away and not pay their bond as they are offered better overseas.
With how crappy the policy and benefits in M'sia is, I don't blame them :(

Hi, so you have finished ur housemanship to be offered training by singapore?
Did u do it in Aus or sg, and u got surgical or medicine discipline?

[Miracle_seed]

can't i request that i wish to work in a certain hospital?
I want to be near my fiancee and my family :(
I'm soooo paying them off seriously if i cant even have that~

If i can contact Ministry of Health, I'd tell him seriously......
just cut it down to 1 year internship. I would come back.
I've got a few MARA batch here as well who will come back.

Don't mind the salary.
(Don't decrease it though)
Would come back? Aren't scholars supposed to come back and serve the country?

[Stalvros]

i havent finished my housemanship yet~
thats just what they told me what they'd offer~

You know how SIngapore and aussie have these 'plans'
to attract doctors into coming to practice in their country?

I wonder if Msia has the same 'plans'?

Like i dunnoe~
more attractive offer perhaps that's available only to selected few?
Or something like that?

[Koschei]

Would come back? Aren't scholars supposed to come back and serve the country?

For JPA scholars, yes, because it is stated in their scholarship agreement. This isn't the case for MARA scholars.

But yes, I agree with you. They should come back to serve the country. Just because there's nothing wrong with it legally doesn't mean that it's morally acceptable.

Yeah, some incentives would help. Like offering really good pay, for a start. Or better on call rates. The backbreaking hours would probably have to stay, though.

[Stalvros]

The MARA had it all better -_-.
3 years instead of 10~
Allowed to stay in Australia for 1 additional year before they come back~
Only for Malays though~

[davinci518]

yeah my friend's in the same predicament too.. he refuses to return to serve the 10 year bond in government hospitals.. i am curious, how could someone evade the government so easily? i mean, cant jpa track the sponsored students?

oh and another thing, during the ten year bond, is it possible for someone to work at a less hectic place, like a klinik kesihatan? or do they have to work in a hospital with no chance of any transfers?

[tehjiao]

yeah my friend's in the same predicament too.. he refuses to return to serve the 10 year bond in government hospitals.. i am curious, how could someone evade the government so easily? i mean, cant jpa track the sponsored students?

oh and another thing, during the ten year bond, is it possible for someone to work at a less hectic place, like a klinik kesihatan? or do they have to work in a hospital with no chance of any transfers?

it all depend on your luck, as u can apply for transfer from time to time. Anyway, i would say that doctor's life is hectic, good life is not part of it. Think twice to choose medical field if quality of life is your top priority.