Any intellectually gifted here? [Archive]

krista

17-05-2004, 11:45 PM

Hello everyone!

Got here when I read the article in Sunday Star. So kudos to whoever who sent the P/release.

This is just what I have been looking for - a proper forum for real talk and discussion.

Currently, I'd like to know if anyone of you here are a Mensa member? I'm actually doing my Masters' thesis on the intellectually gifted in Malaysia so I would really appreciate any help/contacts you guys can offer. The first stop is to look for Mensans since they are officially the intellectually gifted (they're tested and they pass the Mensa test).

This area should prove interesting to discuss too since unlike our neighbours, Thailand, S'pore, Philippines, Malaysia DOES NOT have a gifted education programme in place. Singapore's programme is almost 20 years old!

So if you are a Mensan, please contact me (krista at artoparoli dot com). I'd really like to hear your thoughts.

gohweihan

18-05-2004, 04:04 AM

Well, I took the test and qualify to become a member, but I didn't become one due to the fact that I dislike the idea of paying RM50 a year membership to be known as a "genius". :D

chenchow

18-05-2004, 04:28 AM

Krista, hopefully your joining of ReCom will help us in having added perspectives in our discussion, towards the betterment of our country and even for greater world. Welcome on board~! Hopefully you can go to the Introduce Yourself thread to introduce yourself.

I think there are a great number of Mensans here. I am a Mensan since 1996, nevertheless I would not say that Mensans are an elite group of intellectually gifted people.

I have helped Mensa organize testing in Penang once back in 1998 and then once in UiTM in 2001, and I believe there are tests organized in UiTM for overseas-bound JPA and Mara scholars for the past two years too.

__earth

18-05-2004, 04:55 AM

i was a mensa.
and I agree with gohweihan. I think it is a waste of money joining it.

windy_city

18-05-2004, 04:59 AM

Can't agree more.
Paying RM50 to be branded as intellectually gifted, a waste of money indeed.
:D

CyberJaya

18-05-2004, 05:11 AM

I can only dream of being mensa (i've never tested) but it has its benefits. For example, If you apply for a job and there are ten applicants all with the same qualifications surely the one who is mensa will be selected.

__earth

18-05-2004, 05:12 AM

widagdo

18-05-2004, 05:18 AM

Thought there were some Mensa prep books available out there to study before you can be labeled as a "Genius"?

(Almost) everyone is (or can be?) intellectually gifted then?

Nice...

windy_city

18-05-2004, 05:21 AM

I have relative working in the HR department in HP/Compaq. He and his colleague challenge each other to take the Mensa test and see who can score higher. They buy books and study the test to beat each other. Do you possibly think that the HR department will look into the mensa score to determine who is the best candidate for a job?

CyberJaya

18-05-2004, 05:35 AM

If there was no way to split the candidates then i think that the mensa score would be a logical way to do it.

windy_city

18-05-2004, 05:49 AM

Not every canditate take mensa test, plus there are tones of ways to differentiate the candidate than using the mensa score. Dun believe me, ask any HR manager whether they ever consider mensa score in an interview. Although most of them will say the process is confidentail, they will tell you that they dun look at it(according to my relative). Just go and ask around, better than arguing it here.

chenchow

18-05-2004, 10:34 AM

It may be a plus point for JPA Scholarship. About one third of my interview talks about Mensa. Perhaps it was the candidate before me mentioned that I got Mensa.

Anyway, I think look at the interactions. I have not been an active member in Mensa, but I think that it is a good way to establish contacts with people and hang around for activities. You get 11 copies of magazine per year too, so that covers for the RM50.

lilet

18-05-2004, 01:31 PM

Haha~! I am a Mensa Malaysia member too since last year. A rather 'dead' member also~! =) I dunno how much can it benefit me but JPA-wise, I don't think it did much help since it is only in the form of a cert, of which I doubt much will be accounted for that. Honestly speaking, I don't think that scoring high IQ means that we are somekind of 'intellectually gifted'. I would say that most probably its just that our understanding and maybe analysing skills are better than average.

Mensa test is quite easy to take actually, if you are at the right place ie KL or Penang and maybe some other cities (can't remember which ones). I was lucky cause my secondary school teacher is a Mensan so he got the officers to come and conduct the IQ test in my school. Being the low-profile kind of school with students who couldn't care less, I am a bit disappointed to say that most of my school mates forgo this oppportunity, mostly due to the payment for taking the test, which was RM 30, if I am not wrong~! =)

I feel that RM 50 subscription annually is quite okay, considering that they send you a magazine each month. Plus, there is a Mensa-Yahoo Group too where we can contact other Mensa members and so. That's how I got into this ReCom in the first place, thanks to Chenchow~! =)

One thing to say, I have to admit that I've never heard of Mensa before I took the test on the day itself. =) It's not really that popular in Malaysia, I guess. Or maybe it's just that I am a frog under the coconut shell~! ;-) If I am not mistaken, the current membership of Malaysian Mensa is only about 1000 plus. =)

ElansarGelmir

18-05-2004, 02:11 PM

Hmm... Was a Mensa. And i didn't bother to renew my membership. Never intended to, anyway. Just become the member to get the cert and MENSA card. That's all.

misled_youth

18-05-2004, 02:50 PM

I consider myself intellectually gifted because I manage to rationalise why I should not vote for BN totally on my own since I was 12!

Take that evil doer!
________
Wellbutrin Classaction (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/wellbutrin/)

zAiTsEv

19-05-2004, 11:44 AM

Can't agree more.
Paying RM50 to be branded as intellectually gifted, a waste of money indeed.
:D

it's only a waste of money if u're not involved actively in the society.

the mensa iq test only tests our logical intelligence. so u can't use the score 2 measure someone's overall talent.

I consider myself intellectually gifted because I manage to rationalise why I should not vote for BN totally on my own since I was 12!

most impressive... politically conscious from a young age...

littlebigone

19-05-2004, 12:22 PM

Damn you Mensa people....it's not fair...just because I don't have an IQ of over 2 gazillion billion doesn't mean that I'm less human...oh the shame...

seriously though, I don't think Krista is here anymore...it's like she came left her advert and took off...oh my god...it's a hit and run Mensa publicity

But the good thing is we know that people actually read our letter in the Star

:| anyone else cracking under exam pressure???

littlebigone

19-05-2004, 12:25 PM

If there was no way to split the candidates then i think that the mensa score would be a logical way to do it.

How is that logical? I think the best way to split the candidates is to ask them to tell jokes...the one with the best joke is surely the best candidate. Who wants to work with someone who can't make others laugh?

widagdo

19-05-2004, 01:15 PM

This is so cool!

Er, nice joke?

budakkerek

19-05-2004, 02:46 PM

ppl who dont joke or laugh are such a bore...end of story.. :wink:

gal_flower

19-05-2004, 06:20 PM

yo ppl!

i'm a Mensa member too...have to admit i never heard of mensa before till i came to uitm...

though i haf to admit i was disappointed (very disappointed) tad i paid rm30 to be tested on something i had done before. i'm sure most asean scholars like me know tad the test is identical to the iQ test we took for the scholarship entrance test. thank goodness i won rm50 back for a game we played after the testing...

honestly, i don't noe wad to do with my membership...i guess i'm one of those ppl who donno wad to do wif wad they haf...

weich

19-05-2004, 07:11 PM

hmm...identical with the ASEAN scholarship test? I took mine when I was 12...wonder how much I've scored....got the scholarship though...haha :D

chenchow

19-05-2004, 10:24 PM

I would say that MENSA Test has been around the past half century and I would not say that the ASEAN Scholarships IQ tests are completely similar to MENSA Test.

If there is any similarity, it is not that MENSA takes the questions from ASEAN Scholarships, but rather the other way around... However, I doubt that is what happening, plus I have proctored the Mensa test before and there are many different sets of questions in the hall, so you will not get same questions as the people around you.

I believe that what has happened is that there are some MENSA members among those officers conducting the ASEAN Scholarship and they set the questions pretty similar to what they have taken in Mensa.

littlebigone

19-05-2004, 10:26 PM

what does the mensa test actually test?

topdog

19-05-2004, 10:33 PM

ElansarGelmir

20-05-2004, 01:08 AM

How's MENSA in other countries like US? Are they high profile?

__earth

20-05-2004, 01:32 AM

mensa malaysia administers the pictorial iq test...there's a proper name for it.

it's kinda funny how some of you say mensa is a waste of money, ego trip, blabla, then finally add: "but i qualified."

i still remember the test name. It's called advanced progressive matrices (APM) test.

kelvinlym

20-05-2004, 01:36 AM

Everyone in Germany knows what Mensa is. Yeah, we eat there everyday, you get cheap food.

*you'll understand this joke if you know German.

widagdo

20-05-2004, 02:09 AM

dining hall?

topdog

20-05-2004, 02:27 AM

i read somewhere tht mensa means "stupid woman" in spanish.

jiinjoo

20-05-2004, 02:53 AM

Looks like krista is not getting many "intellectual" answers that will help her with thesis... Welcome aboard krista.

I wanted to go do the mensa test sometime ago, but after flipping through the books I find them quite boring, and forgot all about it. There's another thread that Hui Lin set up somnetime ago for interesting questions (mostly interview questions) that has some stuff to stimulate your mind wtih.

As an aside, is the mensa magazine available for non-members as well? It'll be nice to solve problems once in a while to keep the mind sharp.. working life is gonna be boring.... oh my, i'm seeing it now... help......

chenchow

20-05-2004, 04:21 AM

Mensa was contemplating having e-magazine, however, there wasn't much response from Malaysian Mensa members.

In fact, I would say that Malaysian Mensa does organize a number of events for its members, from youth camp, which I went before, to constant talks in Nasional Science Center and Kompleks Masyarakat Penyayang in Penang. There are a number of makan-makan event, besides a tressure hunt. There are also scrabble tournament, bowling, wine tasting, taekwando, national forum on intelligence, blood donation drive, annual dinner, visits to places like Royal Selangor Pewter, Putrajaya etc. There are also SIGHT services, where you can get to connect with fellow Mensans abroad and perhaps get a host. Constantly, there will be Mensans abroad visiting Malaysia and Mensa members typically were asked for volunteers to host them.

And I think one of the major benefits of Mensa is the networking contacts. It is yet another platform like ReCom, where people get to meet one another.

20-05-2004, 06:40 AM

Hmm, talking about intellectually gifted, perhaps we should start a club that is exclusive only to summa cum laudes from elite universities -- wonder how many Malaysians qualify? Hmm, maybe that sounds too exclusive :twisted:

__earth

20-05-2004, 07:01 AM

mensa is one thing
summa cum laude is another. =)

windy_city

20-05-2004, 07:07 AM

aquila

20-05-2004, 08:52 AM

Categorizing just Mensa members as the intellectually gifted is kinda narrow, don't you think? I didn't qualify, does that make me dumb? :P I don't think so.

Summa cum laude... sounds nice but REALLY difficult to graduate with that honor.... imagine the 20 people with best CGPA in the entire graduating class... what that would also mean is a CGPA of 3.85 and above.... summa cum laudes are also Phi Beta Kappas correct? You don't even have to create a club, there's already one! I hope to qualify, but it's not going to be my priority... haha... as if i'm not mugging enough...

3.85 would be a healthy dose of As and A-s. I don't really know the min cGPA but I think it'll be that or higher...

i tell you if there are 20 sporeans in one class, your place has pretty much been taken up... haha :P they study so hard... get 1 A- and they cringe and howl... oh well, what can i say?

Don't really want to give up my co-curriculars either... so it'll really be a contest of who manages time the best... my selective house friend, who made the USAToday's All American academic first team, was really active in research, community service, cultural organizations... on top of that she had a cgpa of 3.85 or something... her secret? time management... i'll have to pick up that skill first i think...

so i digress... haha

chenchow

20-05-2004, 09:24 AM

I think by the view point of intellectually gifted, being a Mensan definitely does not make one an intellectually gifted. Having a high CGPA, i.e. summa cum laude, does not guarantee either, right?. (Just curious, what is the CGPA requires for summa cum laude, over here, it is 4.00)

What is the best judgment on being intellectually gifted? Good at regurgitating facts? Good at analyzing? Good at writing papers? Good at doing research? What is the definition of good?

Having Singaporeans in the class does not necessarily mean that the As are taken up. Last year, the top 35 graduating seniors, only 1 is a Singaporean.

windy_city

20-05-2004, 09:27 AM

It actually depend on what are you doing, for engineering student it is TAU BETA PHI. This kind of honor society only recruits members by invitation only. Wan to get into it, you need to be really good, like what Sally said.

Anyway, there is an honors society for freshman called Alpha Lambda Delta; it is easy to get in compare to Tau Beta Phi or Phi Beta Kappas because they just look at your freshman result. Anyway, I think I wasted my money by joining it too, but at least it is better than Mensa, I only need to pay once and get a lifetime membership, hahah!!

:D

misled_youth

20-05-2004, 10:19 AM

You guys all menses damn lansi man...

Throw you into Lorong Haji Taib see you smart enough to get out alive or not!
________
Home made vaporizers (http://vaporizerinfo.com/)

topdog

20-05-2004, 10:42 AM

You guys all menses damn lansi man...
menses?
:)

aquila

20-05-2004, 12:02 PM

LOL... sorry Chen Chow, don't take me too seriously.. going cranky doing summer physics...

I'm not sure about the minimum cGPA for summa cum laude... probably near 4.00... after all there is a considerable amount of grade inflation these past years... heard about the princeton debate?

Phi Eta Sigma, the freshman honor society here... there are actually a lot of honor societies and honor frats too... so if u want to join one, you most certainly can... haha... some have 3.00 min cgpa, some 3.5cgpa...

i think phi beta kappa is probably the most prestigious honor society here... rhodes scholars are usually members, top graduating seniors are most usually members as well... i'm not sure if they choose members based on their cgpa or if they take co-curriculars into account...

join an honors society if u have the chance... resume inflation is that easy... who cares if u have to pay that fee... u can ALWAYS put member of XXX honor society... hahaha

20-05-2004, 12:05 PM

join an honors society if u have the chance... resume inflation is that easy... who cares if u have to pay that fee... u can ALWAYS put member of XXX honor society... hahaha

That's a good point...I feel cheated paying an $80-odd fee at MIT for PBK when all you get is a certificate.

krista

20-05-2004, 11:31 PM

Hello all and esp. to Chen Chow,

Very interesting responses! A huge thank you for all your opinions because that gives me something to chew on. ;-)

First, let me introduce myself. I'm doing my MA in USM Penang at the moment and I chose to do my thesis on the intellectually gifted.

Why? Well, I think it's an area of research no one really touches on because it's so vague (OK, OK, now you're probably think I am going on a suicide mission or something) and most supervisors advise their postgrad students to do something 'replicable' or 'easier'. I have always been nutty... I chose to stick to my guns and do this.

There are two strands to the issue of intellectually gifted. One strand says that to be gifted is to have a high IQ. But the last 20 years have shown that gifted means a number of things, i.e. abilities in certain fields like art, music, language and etc. There's this debate going on too - if we were to say giftedness lies in abilities, how is it measured? That's why a lot of people stick to high IQ while waiting for a better method of measurement to surface.

In Malaysia, the mere mention of intellectually gifted equates one with high IQ (since our emphasis has always been academic and intellectual).

So I was looking for some Mensans' opinions. That's why I am glad I came across ReCom at the right moment. You guys have been helpful! (Errr...Mensa means 'table' in Spanish right? And my German's so rusty, so Kelvin, you have to explain the joke to me, at least). :wink:

topdog

20-05-2004, 11:43 PM

(Errr...Mensa means 'table' in Spanish right? And my German's so rusty, so Kelvin, you have to explain the joke to me, at least). :wink:
"mensa"
= "stupid" in spanish (mexican slang)
= "cafetaria" in german
= "catering" in italian

the things you can find (http://www.sictalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-10763) on the internet these days...:)

p.s. it's "table" in latin

windy_city

21-05-2004, 12:53 AM

join an honors society if u have the chance... resume inflation is that easy... who cares if u have to pay that fee... u can ALWAYS put member of XXX honor society... hahaha

True, that was the reason I join that honor society, to get a pin and a cert.
hahaha

deekay

21-05-2004, 02:31 PM

To augment Chen Chow's information on Mensa, the Malaysian Mensa society is a not-for-profit organisation and has done its part over the past 20 years since inception to foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity in Malaysia.

In addition to organising the Forum on Intelligence and various other activities mentioned by Chen Chow, Malaysian Mensa was instrumental in setting up the National Association of Gifted Children. For Krista, please contact the Malaysian Mensa office in PJ and try to get in touch with Mr Lee Loy Fatt. He may be able to help you.

Unfortunately, the NAGC has not achieved anything of note due to the lack of funding and support. I believe that govt help was sought in the late 80s and 90s but there was no interest on the govt's part and the private sector was not interested either. I guess the thrust of the govt's attention was education for the masses and let the exceptional kids (more likely their parents) figure out how to shape their future. And that is why many cases of exceptional children are just like shooting stars - they are reported in the media as bright novas but then left to sputter out. So, for some of the members of Recom, be glad that you are where you are !

For Krista, please be aware that Mensa International is also connected to the Mensa Research Journal. I believe the Malaysian Mensa Office has some copies of this thrice yearly publication. Themes of the 2000 Mensa Research Journals included Testing the Tests, Gifted and Talented and Learning Disabled, and Intelligence and Talent.

Yes, obviously I am a Mensa member and it is a fact that many students allow their membership to lapse. This attrition is not uncommon. However, it is fairly common that some (not all) past members seek to rejoin once they are fairly secure in their careers.

Members come from different backgrounds. In Malaysia, there are the usual IT folks, accountants, financial and medical professionals as well as musicians and a taxi driver. Intellilgence is not to be confused with academic achievement and hence, one could also be a social worker in Chow Kit Road and be a Mensa member.

littlebigone

22-05-2004, 01:48 AM

how much do you have to score on the Mensa test to qualify?

Also, talking about IQ...does every test use the same IQ scale or is the a difference....coz I've taken test that gave me like totally differnet results.

__earth

22-05-2004, 02:26 AM

how much do you have to score on the Mensa test to qualify?

you will need to score 2 standard deviation from average.

chenchow

22-05-2004, 03:36 AM

Mensa is using Cattell Scale, and to qualify you need to get 148 under that scale. (It is better than 98% of the world's population in IQ, as claimed by Mensa). Maximum for the test that Mensa gives for general admission is 180.

I am not too sure about whether it is 2 standard deviation from average or not, but I doubt it. Every answer that you choose (it is 36 multiple choices graphic questions within 40 minutes) will grant you different score, to be calculated into the IQ under Cattell Scale.

There are a few scales for IQ testing, but Cattell Scale is among the most popular one. And I believe as no test is perfect in testing on Intelligent Quotient (IQ), there will be some variation.

pandaboy

22-05-2004, 12:33 PM

is there any sample questions that we can get from the net? how and where to sit for the test to be able to qualify for MENSA membership?

krista

22-05-2004, 03:01 PM

Hi ya

Hey, I am still around though sometimes I don't post. Have read the responses so far, and deekay and chenchow, thanks for the leads.

I believe NAGCM's membership is open to children without testing so it means if you have a child and you think s/he is gifted, you can join NAGCM. They organise activities, outings and talks but they're basically a small group of advocates on this giftedness issue.

Testing for intelligence has generally come under fire, esp from those who believe intelligence is not just a number. Many against IQ testing says it denotes a stable, fixed intelligence; it's not culturally fair etc. So newer and better tests have come out, though this adds on to the confusion. Which test is more accurate? Which is better? Are results from test A more accurate than test B?
So on and so forth. Rather complicating mess, I say.

One question though: what do you think of the relationship between language (English/BM/mother tongue) and your intelligence? Is it true that those who are intelligent (in this case, as defined by your IQ) are better verbally?

Would like to know what you guys and girls think.

Thirdshifter

22-05-2004, 03:16 PM

I think language is something you have to learn and utilize to express your self.

I don't think it can be categorized as a 'gift' in this case.

Also may i ask, what is gained from writing a thesis on the intellectually gifted in Malaysia?

Apart from the Mensa testing which is voluntarilly there might be a lot of unfound intellectual gifted people in Malaysia.

Maybe your club should do a hunt. Who finds 5 first gets a cookie?

chiunlin

22-05-2004, 11:16 PM

[quote="krista"]
One question though: what do you think of the relationship between language (English/BM/mother tongue) and your intelligence? Is it true that those who are intelligent (in this case, as defined by your IQ) are better verbally?
[quote]

I think intelligent people are more likely to be better verbally, though I would say that proficiency in language depends very much on usage and practice.

As for relationship between language and intelligence, I once read that studying Chinese has the same effect as learning music. And people who know more than one language are likely to be more intelligent.

gohweihan

23-05-2004, 01:01 AM

One question though: what do you think of the relationship between language (English/BM/mother tongue) and your intelligence? Is it true that those who are intelligent (in this case, as defined by your IQ) are better verbally?

I would say language allows for one to project and absorb the knowledge around him. It is a way for people to communicate and receive ideas.

Therefore, we may be able to use language to test intelligence, but the level of intelligence cannot be determined from the language or languages we know.

In my opinion, I believe that the ability to command more languages allow someone to learn more about the world, and thus, would be able to manipulate his intelligence into analyzing real-world problems and issues. Also, with this language ability, a person can then project this analysis into something which others can understand. It indirectly makes one more intelligent because only when people understand you properly, they can judge your intelligence.

krista

25-05-2004, 11:19 AM

Hi Weihan and Chiunlin,

True, true. How one speaks and what one speaks may not have any influence on one's intelligence but it helps one convey one's ideas and creativity.

The verbal aspect is often the most overlooked aspect for all students, not only the intellectually gifted. In Western countries, there are special language arts programmes for the gifted, which focuses on nurturing the verbal talents of these children. Even in mathematics one needs language!

And ThirdShifter, good question: "Also may i ask, what is gained from writing a thesis on the intellectually gifted in Malaysia?"

What may I ask CANNOT be gained from writing a thesis on a group which is at the moment, not receiving help from the Govt, which no one knows about, where there are more myths to the giftedness concept than facts, where Malaysian data is sadly lacking on this group, where parents are usually struggling to cope with their gifted children, not able to understand what they need or what to do.

I know of a mother whose child is way ahead of his peers and he is only 7. His English is that of a 12 year old, he is creative, he is witty but school bores him to death. He speaks like an adult and does not suffer fools. Imagine another 6 years of primary schooling for him - it would be one of the most frustrating years of his life and he's not even in secondary school yet.

If you can shed light on children like this, parents, teachers and advocates can at least help him cope, provide him external stimulation so his gifts can grow, not stunt them.

If a child can 'fly', why does he need to take 'baby steps'? :wink:

qedx

25-05-2004, 11:25 AM

does not suffer fools
sounds like the kid's an ass :P

budakkerek

25-05-2004, 11:31 AM

gal_flower

25-05-2004, 09:12 PM

i don noe abt the rest of them who took the mensa test n the asean test....mine was completely identical...i wasnt saying tad mensa took the test from asean...juz tad i din expect it to be the same...
oh yeah...one of the alm guys who took the test was declared something like 'mentally challenged' or somewhere along tad line... probably he fluked the test coz he din care abt it...(he's some big guy's son)

budakkerek

26-05-2004, 12:36 PM

mebbe he's just a born idiot LOL j/k :wink:

jiinjoo

27-05-2004, 08:39 AM

yeah, i hv to agree on that. Our msian edu system does not actually cater to the gifted needs. i dunno whether i am gifted, never got tested for that, but i entered school at 6, was one of the high-achievers, but oh no! The kementerian wouldnt let me take the UPSR although i had a good academic track record. Why? Coz i was only 11. And I had to repeat standard 5, which was a big blerghh...coz it was so boring, learning stuff i already know. Hmm..come to think of it, i was actually in primary school for 7 years.
Haha - sama sama :) Looking back at primary school education, I sort of wasted all 7 years of it, mum spend too much time on me when I was young, so I actually lost interest in studies towards primary 4 to 6 when everything turns out to be "easy"... Isn't a good sign.

At the same time, I've been talking to a few gifted kids from M'sia in Stanford. You know, like 3 years younger than me but already 3 years ahead of me in his/her PhD program kind. They told me that they were "lucky" in the sense that their family kept them occupied eventhough school work in super boring, and by Form 1 or Form 2 put them in to university directly. If local won't work, overseas definitely got scholarships etc.

About mensa test / asean test - i think both of them took it from someone else. It's pretty standard. There are at least a dozen companies in the states that sells test like these and making a fortune, each claiming to predict the future employee / student better than the other. I recall reading about some of them over a organizational behavior class, how they correlate the these test and worker behavior. It turns out that these IQ test are best predictors as compared to other test. Can't remember the bulk of them (definitely include interviews, EQ test, play games etc.), but I remember a few worse ones. In some middle eastern and european countries, they use handwriting test. They think that the neater your handwriting, the better you'll poerform in your job. That didn't turn out well over a 14 year study.

So it depends on what the society buys. I think a short conversation over a cup of teh-ais gives more perspective to a person's intelligence than pictures. That's part of the process to get into schools like Princeton and MIT :)

chenchow

27-05-2004, 09:18 AM

"About mensa test / asean test - i think both of them took it from someone else"

I disagree with Jiin Joo on this note. Mensa was established in 1946 and it has currently active members of more than 100,000 in 100 countries. So, I frankly don't think that if an organization that takes questions from other groups, could establish itself with more than 100,000 members all over the world.

The word "Mensa" means "table" in Latin. The name stands for a round-table society, where race, color, creed, national origin, age, politics, educational or social background are irrelevant. This is what Mensa means.

windy_city

27-05-2004, 11:11 AM

That's part of the process to get into schools like Princeton and MIT :)
Are you sure about this??
I have a friend who gets into MIT without even attending the alumni interview process.

krista

27-05-2004, 12:24 PM

Believe it or not, the gifted is lumped together with other learning diabilities under my Human devlpmt syllabus. Sad, isn't it? But i guess it is a learning diability, coz gifted children are always so far ahead of their peers, and they're usually stuck in an unfair system that doesnt believe in giving a child an eduation that suits his cognitive development. Gifted children, who are unable to cope with the banal and boring lessons (yaa..i'd feel bored learning bout stuff i already know) usually end up being disruptive in classroom

That's what I don't understand either. That we have two extreme spectrums in the special education definition in Malaysia. One - the intellectually challenged, and the other, the intellectually superior.

As for the kid being an ass becos he doesn't suffer fools, i suppose one would be too if one had to be stuck in class, learning what you don't want to learn but having to stick it out becos the school system is rigid and unyielding to one's needs.

KobeBryant

27-05-2004, 12:45 PM

sorry.....what is Tau Beta Phi or Phi Beta Kappas ? what is "....cum laude"

chenchow

27-05-2004, 12:57 PM

windy_city

27-05-2004, 10:10 PM

Tau Beta Phi or Phi Beta Kappas are honors society. They are open to students who are among the top few percentage of a class.

summa cum laude, magma cum laude and cum laude are various Latin honors. I think the cutoff point varies with universities. For Cornell, it is 4.00, 3.75, 3.50 respectively.

about the cut off point for these various latin honor, it is different from school to school. Some schools which want to combat grade inflation have already change the requirement for these honors to percentage, for example summa cum laude is the top 3 percentage of the grduating class.

Randomphantom

27-05-2004, 11:26 PM

Being intellectually gifted is subjective - I guess a reasonable way of measuring it would be IQ Tests. Said online version can be found here http://web.tickle.com/tests/uiq/

As for these prodigies, I believe that they require external stimulus that the school curriculum cannot provide for. Teachers and parents should be able to recognise special talent, and recommend them to further opportunities rather then confining them to the schoolgrounds.

But I believe that they should not force this 'nurturing' on their talented children. Parents nowadays tend to be desperate in hopes that their children are super-smart and talented in some ways, sending them to join numerous activities which might further impede the natural progression of their childrens minds. As such, prodigies might get their chances at being a world class pianist/orator/physicist while still being young, but they would also prescribe to a rather narrow worldview. They will have to cope living amongst those mentioned as 'fools' for their many years to come. Btw some autists are also 'gifted' in certain areas.

I say, let them progress naturally.

I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
Mark Twain[/quote]

gal_flower

28-05-2004, 12:33 PM

even spore judges n categorizes its students...i'm sure most of u noe tad there are two streams in spore sec schools which r different from msia--the express stream n the normal stream. so the express stream students finish sec school in 4 years compared to normal stream students who finish sec school in 5 years. the express students regard the normal stream students as the 'no hope no cure' students...

jiinjoo

30-05-2004, 12:09 AM

That's part of the process to get into schools like Princeton and MIT :)
Are you sure about this??
I have a friend who gets into MIT without even attending the alumni interview process.
Well, it's part of the application process, MIT use the phrase "whenever possible", princeton didn't make it compulsory. I was just saying that they like to have that kind of whole person feel.
http://web.mit.edu/admissions/www/undergrad/freshman/interview.html
http://www.princeton.edu/pr/admissions/u/applhowto.htm

I disagree with Jiin Joo on this note. Mensa was established in 1946 and it has currently active members of more than 100,000 in 100 countries. So, I frankly don't think that if an organization that takes questions from other groups, could establish itself with more than 100,000 members all over the world.
But they are so different! Mensa's stuff look way to verbose and english based to be just extracted 100% out to be the asean test. Even if the source came from Mensa, there must be some intermediary companies that took those questions, administer them to different people, decides the kind of characteristics of that person, draw up some correlation and Then sell only a selected portion of the Mensa test to others depending on what kind of person the customer is looking for. Just a hunch - can't find anything to back this up (unless we have someone working in sgMOE on this forum...)

tzuohann

30-05-2004, 03:10 AM

iMMA JUST wanna point out the fact that some ppl who don't wanna pay 50 bucks not to be branded genius are quite quite astray in a few fundamental things.

First, 50 bucks is more for the magazine and to keep a society running. Saying that you are paying to be branded a genius is like saying im paying school fees to be called an alumni of a good school for instance. Like, say I'm paying to be called a Harvardian.(or whatever its called) But the fact is, you are paying to attend an amazing school, and to keep it running. In MENSA its more of the latter. (running)

Next, being called a genius. Lets say that MENSA is only testing to see if you have 'good(by only one standard, and there are more) reasoning skills. Thats really really far away from being genius. Far enough that that you should have no reason to not want to be in MENSA to be modest, coz the fast is, if you are only passing the MENSA test, you are probably just making the 1% of genius.

and lastly, the ppl in MENSA are not all geniuses, but are ppl who get together, respect the fact that they have equal reasoning abilities, which is quite true, coz no MENSAN I've met is a brick, and from there, they do cool things together, so no reason to criticize them or the society at all, implicitily or otherwise all.

TzuoHann @<hidden> Duke (The sleeping(dead rather) MENSA member)

tzuohann

30-05-2004, 03:16 AM

And, if the reason of thinking that the 50 bucks is a waste coz of preference, that is totally cool. IE giving 50 cents to a doubtful charity. Which is totally cool. But I just want point out that being in MENSA is not about being in a group of ppl who think they are gifted or above others in society. It is simply a group which does well on one test, and are themselves happy with it. THat is all......

gal_flower

30-05-2004, 09:38 PM

well, i guess ppl r alwayz skeptical abt one thing or another...i mean, it's already set in their mind tat mensa is not worth the rm50 a year so watever others say would hardly haf any effect on 'em rite?!
intellectually gifted or not, i think tad is also quite subjective...or maybe not tad very important...everybody has a gift, one thing or another...
only my thoughts...

chenchow

30-05-2004, 11:18 PM

Yeah, I agree. Everyone has something unique talent and what everyone needs to do would be to carve some kind of niche among yourself... The niche could be something very focused or even very diverse... like someone who are the best in designing a drug test..that is a niche..someone who can present very well..that is a nice... very adaptable, ...another niche...very good at circuit analysis.. that's another niche... lots of things...but you need to find something out.. That's my personal view point. It is something that if you ask your friends all to sum up a sentence about you... they will say about that on you..