Khairy Jamaluddin

[misled_youth]

http://thestar.com.my/archives/2004/5/21/nation/p22khairy.jpg

This good looking * above is Khairy Jamalludin @<hidden> KJ @<hidden> "most powerful 28-yr-old in Malaysia".

Who is he? Why the sudden rise to prominence?

This man formerly works in the PM Dept

http://www.jeffooi.com/archives/Khairy.jpg

He is married to PM Abdullah only daughter

http://www.jeffooi.com/archives/Khairy_Nori.jpg

Graduated from Oxford, worked as a journo at The Economist. Presently UMNO Youth Exco member.

Most importantly, he was tipped to be the new Chief Operating Officer of Khazanah. The BN's investment wing, and largest shareholder of Proton (among other ventures).

Today, the star reported (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/5/21/nation/8024928&sec=nation) that he would not be contesting as vice-president of UMNO youth during the upcomming UMNO general Assembly.

I contend that this was due to the amount of hoo-haa generated by the public that Khairy's rise to fame was because he is the menantu of the most powerful man in Malaysia.

Why else would the most powerful man in NST try to cover Khairy and Pak Lah's arse over the Khazanah COO issue??

http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Sunday/Columns/20040516071639/Article/indexb_html

POINT
No matter how much the media try to spin in favour of the powers-that-be, nothing beats old-school rakyat's vigilance and scrutiny.

We have untold of powers. It is the rakyat that causes revolutions. If we have the will, we can make the bearacrats bend down before us.

Don't let the powers-that-be tell you what how to think. Think for yourself.

Viva la resistanza!
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[topdog]

yeap, this issue has generated A LOT of criticism in cyberspace. bloody hell, do they take the rakyat for fools or what? (then again, i suppose most of the rakyat are fools..)

28-years old, 0 years business experience, general degree from Oxford, son-in-law of PM = senior position in state investmemt arm managing RM25 billion of the rakyat's money?!

[masterof_none]

hah.
unless he's the Malaysian version of Warren Buffet, he better learn more about finance. I believe there are a lot more experienced people out there who can do handle the public money.

[weich]

...28-years old, 0 years business experience, general degree from Oxford, son-in-law of PM = senior position in state investmemt arm managing RM25 billion of the rakyat's money?!

hmm....wonder where you got your info from....looks like you got your facts wrong:

- Oxford BA in PPE = general degree??? MA in law & politics as well...

Hmm.....You know what is Oxford's PPE program right?

- and he was a correspondent for the Economist before...

This is a very intelligent young man we are saying here...and there we go criticising the old fogeys and now we got new young one not happy pula....what lah???

...having worked in Economist I am sure he has gained a few contacts in Europe, and knows abit about the world and European economy....and you guys just discount that and say he got to this stage because of his wife and father-in-law???

Bill Clinton, Ewart Gladstone, Winston Churchill, Lee Kuan Yew all had negligible working experience before turning full-time politicians - they weren't all that bad....

Read here:

http://www.asia-inc.com/April04/Hmsia_khairy_apr.htm

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/top/story/0,4136,59876-1083686340,00.html

Our GLCs are trying to change the way the rakyat look at them, so what better than to use these highly qualified young men/women to do that???

[__earth]

weich, he is 28 years old and he is already on the top.

and he has connection with the PM.

for god's sake, this is not meritocracy.

[topdog]

weich, you are amazing. you should consider joining bn's propaganda department.

you don't see anything wrong with a 28-year old with 0 years experience in the financial sector handling RM25bil of the rakyat's money? (forget the fact that he is the pm's son in law for the moment.)

aren't there other more capable professionals with proven track records out there? FYI this is more than partisan politics - it concerns the wealth of the nation.

okay, so he has an ma in politics and law, i will grant you that. so what? and from what i understand, a ba in ppe is like triple-minoring in philosophy, political science and econ in the u.s., i.e. unspecialized! since yuo're in the u.k., you might want to check with others there.

correspondent with the economist? yeah, working as a journalist for the economist qualifies you for a senior position in an investment arm.

amazing.

[masterof_none]

but weich has a good point. He maybe the Malaysian version of Warren Buffet. If he's a qualifed person, there's no reason why he shouldn't be at the top.

The fact that he's only 28 years old doesn't mean that he's naive and fool. He may be smart. And the fact that he's linked to PM maybe just coincidence (yea, right). But, who knows?

How can we pre-judge people before we see his work?.

[topdog]

let's imagine that khazanah is an independent investment firm, say like Merrill Lynch. would a 28-year old with ZERO years finance experience be able to jump from an entry-level position to chief operating officer of merrill lynch?

this is not a warren buffett starting his own company.

p.s. kj's appointment is just speculation, so far, since no official announcement has been made. however, it amazes me that there people who see NOTHING WRONG with the prospect of, well, you know.

[__earth]

if it were mustapa mohammed, probably it would be acceptable.

on technical note, could the forum admin change the topic to something more descriptive. like Khairy Jamalludin or something.

but then, masterof_none says don't judge a book by its cover. maybe we should give him some time to prove himself. at the first evidence of incompetent, send him to the lion's den.

[weich]

topdog....First of all, I have no political inclination, I'm more towards the goal of a progressive nation....and thanks for the compliments, it would be easier for me to understand the situation if I'm in BN....

btw, PPE in Oxford has the reputation as Oxford's toughest course =)

_earth... if you wanna talk about meritocracy, I've lived with it since I was born...but why am I happy with it? We'll be like Indonesia if not for this! You should be thankful to this!!!

....And I would rather let a smart person with good credentials lead then an old, stubborn one! One who would be more flexible to changes, who has a more open outlook on things...and a COO does not work on his own! You need a team! He'll be smart enough to get some good economist in his team rite???

no offense but if most of us think like this....Malaysia is doomed!!! We have already given an ending to the book when we haven't even written the introduction...

Meritocracy can't be implemented immediately....it requires careful planning...rashness will get us nowhere!

[topdog]

I'm more towards the goal of a progressive nation....
it is my understanding that a progressive nation is one where old-school nepotism and cronyism is viewed by its people as, well, un-progressive.

btw, PPE in Oxford has the reputation as Oxford's toughest course =)
then, taking your word for it, i stand corrected on this.


_earth... if you wanna talk about meritocracy, I've lived with it since I was born...but why am I happy with it? We'll be like Indonesia if not for this! You should be thankful to this!!!
i don't understand. will there be a racial riot if a malay professional with a proven track record in the financial sector be appointed instead of this guy?


no offense but if most of us think like this....Malaysia is doomed!!! We have already given an ending to the book when we haven't even written the introduction...
think like what?

[weich]

let's imagine that khazanah is an independent investment firm, say like Merrill Lynch. would a 28-year old with ZERO years finance experience be able to jump from an entry-level position to chief operating officer of merrill lynch?

this is not a warren buffett starting his own company.

p.s. kj's appointment is just speculation, so far, since no official announcement has been made. however, it amazes me that there people who see NOTHING WRONG with the prospect of, well, you know.

In the world of Investment banking, there's no such thing that says your age determines your seniority level...it just depends on how good you are...that's meritocracy!!! And if you realise the high level of staff turnovers in the investment banking industry, you need to be the best to stay!!!

I'm not saying there's nothing wrong!!! In this age with competition from China, and closer to our shores, Thailand, Vietnam, and Singapore....we need fresh, intelligent minds to lead!!! There's no such thing as convention anymore...esp. in the business world....look at Google, Dell, Microsoft....by daring to change or be different, they manage to be one of the leaders in their field! Look at the unconventional approach we took during the SEA Economic Crisis!!!

Sad to say, business has to mix with politics...esp. at that level...

It's a gamble I admit, but at this stage, I think it is worth it!!!

[topdog]

all right then, forget his age.

ZERO years experience. doesn't that unsettle you?

the examples you gave: google - started by masters students in their dorms.

dell - started by a college dropout.

microsoft - ditto.

those were not state investment firms for chrissakes. they were private enterprises started by risk-taking, entrepeneurial techies with big balls.

kj should be given a chance to prove himself, true. but not as a COO!!!

it's like the president of merrill lynch making his un-battle tested son COO. nothing wrong with that?

[misled_youth]

Can the MOD stop changing my topics? Dammit! The MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE!

Aisayman! Respect McLuhan sikit lah!
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[chenchow]

My personal opinion would be for Khairy to take on some middle-level position and work his way up. If he is capable, he will be able to prove his capability and perhaps in 10 or 20 years time, he will be able to be successful helming Khazanah or other major companies/ investment groups.

I would look at Khairy as a talented person, and not as the son-in-law of Pak Lah. As TopDog says, this is still at speculative level.

I agree with you guys that perhaps COO of Khazanah may not be a suitable stepping stone. However, I will be all for it, if he is given some opportunity to prove his worth.

[ElansarGelmir]

My personal opinion would be for Khairy to take on some middle-level position and work his way up. If he is capable, he will be able to prove his capability and perhaps in 10 or 20 years time, he will be able to be successful helming Khazanah or other major companies/ investment groups.


About to say this, but Chen Chow beat me to it. Even though if this Khairy guy is very talented, we have no idea how he works, his work ethics, creditability of handling an enormous sum of Malaysian's money. He's not really familiar with Malaysia's policy or what. Paper qualification doesn't prove anything. Allowing him to handle such big responsibility without any work experience would be very very very very risky instead. We can't assume everyone could be Buffet. Maybe making him the Asst. Chief won't be that much of far fetched though.

[littlebigone]

Kinda lost in the discussion but I hope I can get some answers:

1) Did he rise to prominence before or after he gained the crucial relationship with the PM

2) What was he doing before that made him one of the candidates for the position? And how does what he was doing relate to the position?

[masterof_none]

Can the MOD stop changing my topics? Dammit! The MEDIUM IS THE MESSAGE!

Aisayman! Respect McLuhan sikit lah!

Please give Recommers a more descriptive title. And you can put the message inside the discussion.
Or, combine the title with the message:
e.g " Khairy Jamaludding case : bla bla (your message)) . "

[__earth]

_earth... if you wanna talk about meritocracy, I've lived with it since I was born...but why am I happy with it? We'll be like Indonesia if not for this! You should be thankful to this!!!


what are you talking about? meritocracy leads to the situation in indonesia?

from my understanding, it was sukarno's nepotism that led to the indonesian fall, not meritocracy.

and cmon, im sure there are other ppl that are living through meritocracy. Its not just you.

In the world of Investment banking, there's no such thing that says your age determines your seniority level...it just depends on how good you are...that's meritocracy!!! And if you realise the high level of staff turnovers in the investment banking industry, you need to be the best to stay!!!

in the world of econometrics, i am pretty sure there is correlation between ability and experience.

[topdog]

_earth... if you wanna talk about meritocracy, I've lived with it since I was born...but why am I happy with it? We'll be like Indonesia if not for this! You should be thankful to this!!!


what are you talking about? meritocracy leads to the situation in indonesia?
i think weich really meant "lived withOUT it."

anyway, guys, let's not turn this into another racial issue.

this is a money issue.

i'll break this down into very simple terms:

"is khairy jamaluddin the best candidate to lead khazanah? does he have a proven track record in the financial sector?"

and phantom, i can't help but notice your tendency to post something, then delete it... (yeah, i spend an inordinate amount of time on recom, while getting paid, so i sometimes notice things =)). slam me if you want to, if i can dish it out, i should be able to take it too.

[phantom]

weich, you are amazing. you should consider joining bn's propaganda department

hey look,i agree to some extend at most ppl's points.a 28 year-old-man with 0 year of experience doesn't deserve Khazanah.

But I have a question,what if he is a 45 year-old man with 17 years of experience,does he then deserve khazanah or some ppl will still tune the same cliche:he's PM's son-in-law and ergo this finds its roots from nepotisme.

so being PM's son-in-law has put him into a caste system in which he doesn't deserve upward mobility for every step up has something to do with his matrimony's string.

hey,if you wanna a healthy discussion,dont label ppl who went againts you as a BN's propaganda player and some ass!!we do see what you blinded your eyes for and you see what we blinded our eyes for.fair!!

and pls lah check your brain before you called us fools.

if you wish 20 more ppls to agree with you and kept bashing someone who you are against with,then you need a sip of reality.ppl are different,dude.

[phantom]

owh one more thing,he's not good looking.just plain.at least for me.

[chenchow]

Perhaps, as we are looking at this issue, maybe we can think of who is the best candidate among Malaysians, to helm various GLCs in Malaysia. Perhaps it is a side track of the main issue already...

[phantom]

and phantom, i can't help but notice your tendency to post something, then delete it... (yeah, i spend an inordinate amount of time on recom, while getting paid, so i sometimes notice things =)). slam me if you want to, if i can dish it out, i should be able to take it too.


becoz sometimes i wrote something when i was mad,and i realized after posting it that it made no point or would lead to bitter ending.being mad and posting it straight away sounded shacky.so I learned to inhale 1st before dropping any line.

[Randomphantom]

All this talk about meritocracy is stupid. Its not like any graduate at a top UK U will automatically know how to manage a portfolio of RM25 billion. PhDs in Finance may not do any better. And to even think about likening him to Warren Buffett - totally absurd.

Its a proven track record, as topdog said- without the experience and credentials to back him up, it is only natural to find a tinge of nepotisme in such ordeals. Btw, connections are necessary if you think about it. Its always better to be on the ruling governments side. What better way to cement that relationship then placing these son-in law/etc in leadership roles?

Those connected to people in high places will always stand in their shadow, and they can either go straight to the helm and withstand the criticism or prove their worth through working their way up. No shortcut to the top and yet be free of critics here. Either way, they have to earn respect. Healthy criticism is needed to keep them on track.

Youthful energy (good looks? err) does not count as much as experience here. Much as we want young blood running the nation, we're talking about RM25 billion here.

[topdog]

it's actually RM150 billion...

[windy_city]

Hahaha, people with zero experience and a general degree (not quite general, but politic, econ, and...) plus master in law and politics should be appointed as COO of RAKYAT money. Hei friend, this is investment banking not politics, you cannot succeed in this field by working in Economists or having a degree in econs, investment banking is totally different. Unless he has certain experience, no matter how smart he is, there is no way, no reason, and no justification for him to lead an investment firm as big as this with zero experience.

Let me show you the career path in Goldman Sachs, one of the world best and leading investment firm:

Undergraduates can apply for analyst positions concentrated in the equities,fixed-income, investment banking, and research division. Analysts usually work two to three years, at which point, exceptional performers move directly into an
associate position and the rest go to business school?Goldman reportedly does not provide tuition support?or another career. All analysts are supposed to plan their career development with their managers and the review process requires you to choose ten to 15 people to review your performance.
MBAs are recruited for career positions in every division, but the bulk join investment banking, fixed income, or equity. The competition is the fiercest anywhere on the Street; expect to find yourself up against not only former Goldman analysts looking to return to the company, but also those from other firms hoping to trade up after business school. Associates often work four years until becoming vice president and work six or more years before becoming candidates for managing director?though stars can vault through the ranks at an accelerated pace. (Can vault through with accelerated pace from Associates to VP, but not from nothing to COO)

I have another example to quote from Morgan Stanley, but forget where I read that stuff already, but the career path for Morgan Stanley is almost the same as the Goldman Sachs too. They have really high standard for their employee and you will need to work from the bottom up to become the head of the company, and you will not get to the top be having an PPE in Oxford and Master in politics and Law. This thing does not work in financial and investment field, I can give you more of these statistics and evidence if you want.

I do not have political agenda or whatsoever, I just stating the fact ( I do not think I am very good in investment banking either).But a degree from Oxford, so what?? There are more qualify people out there that need to work from bottom up to achieve the status of COO. Weich, from you posting, you show that you totally do not understand investment banking or maybe you are just too optimistic about a person's ability. May I suggest some investment books for you to read before you make assumption like that again.

[aquila]

Ah~~~ the irony of Malaysian politics...

One minute Pak Lah was saying "Work with me, not for me," another minute, bloodhounds like us are smelling Khairy's supposed post as second leading man in Khazanah...

I admit there are lots of stupid, unqualified politicians in senior posts in Malaysia.. to replace them, do we just pick someone with 0 experience to lead Khazanah? I hope not!

If Khairy does have strong credentials, and I believe he does, he should work his way up... This is a country's fund, we're talking about... you cannot use trial and error... the costs are too high...

If it's a private company, I won't care... if it succeeds, well good! if it goes bust, I won't complain either... but Khazanah? Funded by taxpayers? sounds like nepotism to me...

if the theory that khairy is an oxford grad with PPE, and worked BRIEFLY with the Economist, and thus he qualifies as COO, well, I'll say we have lots of qualified people here in Recom who should be nominated for top posts in the govt...

[chenchow]

Khairy has just stepped as Timbalan Ketua Setiausaha Sulit II di Pejabat Perdana Menteri. What do you guys speculate his next move?

http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,117645,00.html?

[Thirdshifter]

nah, he just got scares when everybody are saying a giuy with no real working experience already having a high profile job sounds wrong. He's not getting out of Pak lahs shadow it's just a side show.

Like hey, see i quit if that makes you happy but.. i'll be back next year as the president instead.

[__earth]

3rd is right, He must be scared.

But it is a right thing to do. And I think everybody is happy about this.

[topdog]

<speculation>
he's probably scared...not of the general public (certainly not of cyber bloodhounds like us, don't perasan haha)...but probably of his rivals in umno. he will be Marked Man Number 1 if he goes all out with his ambitions so soon...

if pak lah can secure his grip on umno, kj will be back.

if i were an umno guy i will start polishing his shoes now.

</speculation>

[Thirdshifter]

If i were an umno guy, i would quit before the de-Umno-fication starts.

I give it another 10-15 years when all Malay leader would try as hard as possible to not be associated with UMNO in any ways.

hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things.

[topdog]

i'll say a prayer for that tonight.

[wwhong]

maybe he's really a smart and capable guy (i said maybe), who knows? but maybe his capability is being covered up by being the son-in-law of the M'sian PM. Maybe people tend to focus on his relationship with PM and has a bias view that he got everything through the relationship rather than his own ability?

anyhow, i still agree that we should have some experienced people to take over the post.

[john_doe_85]

Whoa! I was reading a newspaper editorial imported from the NST into the Straits Times. I'm starting to think that what the editor said was right.

Firstly, just because he's the PM's son-in-law does not mean that nepotism is taking place. Lee Hsien Loong is LKY's son and him holding the position of Minister of Finance has been a good decision as he is capable. Why can't Khairy be given a chance to prove his worth as the leader of Khazanah?

Secondly, I think it's important that we examine when he became related to the PM. He was Pak Lah's press secretary, I believe, before he started wooing Pak Lah's only daughter. He's been described as a talented young man who knows what he's talking about even before he knew Pak Lah's daughter (Nori, izzit?). That doesn't mean that Pak Lah's just picking up people whom he's close to to take up lead positions. He and Datuk Azalina were handpicked for their views on government policies and social issues and that's why Datuk Azalina is a cabinet minister today!

Just because Khairy is related to the PM does not mean that he isn't the right man for the job. We should let him test his salt cos if he fails, Pak Lah's reputation will also go. That's something I feel even Pak Lah won't permit.

Maybe we've been so used to cronyism that we can't even see a bright star right in front of us...

[phantom]

I give it another 10-15 years when all Malay leader would try as hard as possible to not be associated with UMNO in any ways.


Hmmm,dont care at all at your political affliations.but bear with me,why make UMNO as the poster-boy for the sick animals out there?

can you prove to me that sick animals are not breed on the other side of the world,where an utopian dynasty is trying hard to be built on the groud of religion diaspora ?

okay,no cover up..no methaphors..straight to the point: Mr. Nik Aziz or Hadi Awang anyone?why them?becoz there are after all the cozy couches for many of our youth out there.

honest? yeah right!!

fair and square? questionable.

heaven-goers? dont agree AT ALL.

okat let's move to my 1st point,shall we?

1) UMNO is bad.maybe.how bad? cradles for dictators.playgrouds for the magnates.

then what about PAS.have you hear any bad thing that PAS wrote about themselves in their lidah rasmi?

before you called me as being brainwashed by BN,let me pinpoint to you that i read harakah online.and never did i came across any bad thing written about them.

what will happened if i care to comment about a PAS guy who demanded RM 30000 from the parliament as his travel and board allowance?why didnt PAS condemn him?becoz he is after all their child,a heaven-goer who doesn't need to be reprimanded?

what if the same thing is done by an UMNO guy,care to read what PAS might say?how ppl here will react?

why keep saying UMNO is bad,when the other side of the world is equally bad too..?

2) my second point, PAS is using the most powerful tool in order to be in power.

who wanna go to heaven,pls take you hand now.okay let's count wokay.hmmmm...man..tonne of you really wanna go there.wow,now let's vote,shall we?

look,all my former classmates were big time fans of PAS,their reasoning: Dr. M sux,a big headed dictator who should be ousted from the office..

and then they anointed this simple question:

if God asks us why didnt we vote to an islamic party when there's one out there..what should we say?so that's why PAS rules.and that's why we are going for PAS.

how will you answer this callow views?

using islam as the tool for political dreams make life easier.

anytime ppl went against you,you can quote the holy words from Koran to impale their irkness.

and these ppl who never go to sekolah agama,have put all their devotions to the words sang by certain ppl they addressed as ulamak or muslim scholars.

my big question now is: who is this ulamak?what is the cut-off line of becoming one? is graduating from al-azhar make you one. DSAI said he was an UMNO's ulamak..and believe me or not,he graduated from MCKK and got a degree not in Islamic field but he himself could label himself that.

Can Mr. Badawi be a muslim scholar becoz he has a degree in islamic studies?

having this in mind,you will realized that muslims were told craps about who and who they should put their trusts on.and who they should abhor.

condemning an ulamak is wrong in islam,so care to condemn mr. Nik aziz?

but then guys,it's okay for mr. nik aziz to debase others.he's an ulamak..and he's heading to heaven.that's what the muslims think.

Islam is a perfect religion,albeit this,the translator of the Holy Koran also known today as the muslim isn't

have you read an english translation of the holy Koran and a malay translation for the holy Koran and see the differences.what is the word righteous mean in malay?malay language lack the vocab to translate the words of God without a flaw.

though Holy Koran will never change till the Judgement's day,their translations were sometimes taken out of context or shorten to fulfill certain ppl's demands.

given all the above,the muslims in malaysia,amid their lack of vocab,love to judge other ppl's after-life destinations.

eg: PAS supporters going to heaven

eg: DR M masuk neraka jahanam

who are these ppl to make the judgement on behalf of the Almighty?

so labeling one group as heading to hell,has made the group less attractive and hence lead to a monopoly of power by the heaven-going groups and turning these ppl more remarkable.

i bet you know these stories:


a prostitute who was willing to remove her own shoe and filled it with water and gave it to a thirsty dog and for that she went to heaven.

and remember a story where a man who never left his prayers,totally devoted to God but couldn't even say the syahadah during his death .

prostitute going to heaven?and a pious man suffering at the noose of Izrail,the muslim's angel of death?

weren't that weird?

then how come it prevails in our society in labeling who is who.and who is on the heaven side or on the hell side.are certain ppl in our country trying to be living Gods?


using islam as the tool for political gains are a convincing way to lure ppl to follow them.

a month ago,in the harakah daily,there's this article telling about why only the muslim scholars should lead PAS.they used the 4 caliphs system as the main rebutting points,leaving the professional PAS men crying out foul.ironic indeed,basing their judgements on the 4 caliphs ruling which lasted less than 50 years,with Abu bakar,uthman,usman and ali.civil wars like Jamal and siffin happpend during these era too.though the 4 caliphs were next to be flawless,is it wise to constantly use the islamic reasonings to shut others down?

make islam as the module,but dont forget to ask questions.accepting e'thing without questions will only lead to confusions.

i think this piece is too long.i have lengthy things to write about PAS becoz I almost spew when those who support UMNO is ridiculed,called cronies when those fanning PAS are brave enough to state their political affliations anywhere they want.

why certain ppl must impose their political affliations on others,debunking those who dont sing the same tune?i know so many of my friends who choose to address themselves as neutral,simply becoz they have trepidation of being rejected by their friends who after all,a huge portion of them are anti-goverment ppl.

isn't it weird,the anti-gov ppl are saying that their freedom of speech are inhabited by the mainstream medias but in private settings they themselves oppressed the freedom of speech of those who think the gov as fine.

yeas,they are creating the same system they are opposing.

UMNO is here to stay.They need good leaders who of coz will be shunned away from those who still think UMNO as the trampoline for hell.

3 months ago,Dr. Mashitah may be on the heaven side..but since
she supports UMNO now,she is now debunked profusely by those who once respected her words.

aiiikkkksss...so basically,masuk lah pas. 8O

imposing?i am not.

expatiating? maybe.

[budakkerek]

wow, that's really long. got my mata berbinau. 8O

[phantom]

i know...tired some more..nite2..can we put that on the remag ?wahahahahahaha :lol:

[budakkerek]

yeah, why not? but you'd hvto work it into a real article, and send it to the remag crew. if they think it's oke, then yeah..sure bley jln one. :D

anyway, i understand what you mean. well, everyone's entitled to their own opinions. i dont agree w you one some stuff, but i dont expect you to agree w me also. so fair is fair laa kan? just dont get too emotional laa...we're trying to hv a matured+open discussion here okie :wink:

[phantom]

just dont get too emotional laa...we're trying to hv a matured+open discussion here okie :wink:


not emotional at all.i dont know lah..why ppl keep saying that to me.wink.

just wanna others from the far end of the corner to also hear about what the other side of the world have to say.being one-sided like me may lead to false assumptions,realized that.but then again..i am not imposing my views on anyone.just being numb and nonchalant. wink again.nite2.gonna sleep tight.

[budakkerek]

hmm..m,aybe your choice of words or the way you put your words...anyway, it doesnt matter. just dont be too angry okie? :wink:

[ElansarGelmir]

Ok ok, digressed... We are here to talk about the credibility vs Son-in Law status of Khairy Jamaluwhatever guy.

Personally, i still think no matter how good you are, you still need to work your way up. At least you will have a better understanding about how the system runs. Being at the top will just give you a bird's eye view about the system, not giving you the detailed account on what's actually happening. It's a good thing that he stepped down from the post. At least after he gains more experience, then only he resume the COO post.

[misled_youth]

John Doe 85:

FYI, Kalimullah Hassan (Supremo of NST), the dude who wrote the article, is Khairy's good friend. Open secret. Editorials should present facts in more indepth manner, leaving readers to make their own opinions.

What Dato Kalimullah did was to impose his idea that croniysm should be tolerated. He was shamelessly spinning in favour of Pak Lah (his golf buddy) and his business associate (khairy).

I don't have proof to my allegations, but let's keep an open mind for now.

Let's remember that Khairy quit his position just a few months ago from the PM's department. We have to ask... WHY? Why is he unemployed for months despite having such credentials? Over qualified? Where got such thing as an overqualified well-networked UMNOputera?

Cheers people!
________
GLASS BUBBLERS (http://bubblers.net/)

[luke]

have you read an english translation of the holy Koran and a malay translation for the holy Koran and see the differences.what is the word righteous mean in malay?malay language lack the vocab to translate the words of God without a flaw.
"righteous" is "budiman" ... never heard of that word? don't blame yourself .. even native speakers don't know all the vocabs ...

[Thirdshifter]

okay,no cover up..no methaphors..straight to the point: Mr. Nik Aziz or Hadi Awang anyone?why them?becoz there are after all the cozy couches for many of our youth out there.


Says who? From my understanding of PAS, they are just as bad as UMNO. Only Difference is, one is Using Islam and the other is using the Malay race. Since there's more Malays then Muslims UMNO wins.


1) UMNO is bad.maybe.how bad? cradles for dictators.playgrouds for the magnates. then what about PAS.have you hear any bad thing that PAS wrote about themselves in their lidah rasmi?

Have you heard anything bad about UMNO in Star? NST? Utusan? Berita Harian?

Harakah is a PAS publication for PAS members only. The dailies i mentioned however is not.


before you called me as being brainwashed by BN,let me pinpoint to you that i read harakah online.and never did i came across any bad thing written about them.

Scroll back up.


what will happened if i care to comment about a PAS guy who demanded RM 30000 from the parliament as his travel and board allowance?why didnt PAS condemn him?becoz he is after all their child,a heaven-goer who doesn't need to be reprimanded?

Feel free too, I think UMNO might even give a cookie. Try condeming a UMNO leader see what news paper would publish it.


what if the same thing is done by an UMNO guy,care to read what PAS might say?how ppl here will react?

Nah, UMNO millionaires would never let their members begging for money. [/quote]


why keep saying UMNO is bad,when the other side of the world is equally bad too..?

Are you telling us that PAS is the only alternative to UMNO? last time i checked there's at least 2 more options.


2) my second point, PAS is using the most powerful tool in order to be in power.

PAS might have the most powerful tool if Malaysia was east of Iraq. UMNO is using the most powerful tool actually. The Malay race.


who wanna go to heaven,pls take you hand now.okay let's count wokay.hmmmm...man..tonne of you really wanna go there.wow,now let's vote,shall we?
Please do provide me with us anything that could confim this allegation. I always just hear o nthe news it's UMNO leaders quoting a PAS leader. Lie perhaps?


look,all my former classmates were big time fans of PAS,their reasoning: Dr. M sux,a big headed dictator who should be ousted from the office..

and then they anointed this simple question:

if God asks us why didnt we vote to an islamic party when there's one out there..what should we say?so that's why PAS rules.and that's why we are going for PAS.

well i hope you ex-classmate burn in hell then, because as i'm writing this Malaysia is still not ruled by PAS. Reason for going to hell? Lack of trying.



using islam as the tool for political dreams make life easier.

anytime ppl went against you,you can quote the holy words from Koran to impale their irkness.

and these ppl who never go to sekolah agama,have put all their devotions to the words sang by certain ppl they addressed as ulamak or muslim scholars.

I can't argue with that since i share the same sentiment. Few uneducated Muslims would easily far for "ulamak tu kata makan nasi dgn tangan kiri berdosa"

my big question now is: who is this ulamak?what is the cut-off line of becoming one? is graduating from al-azhar make you one. DSAI said he was an UMNO's ulamak..and believe me or not,he graduated from MCKK and got a degree not in Islamic field but he himself could label himself that.

In Many post ago we did discuss the authority of an Ulama or any religious scholar. To be fair a beleief is a belief and it should be your choice to choose what to beleive. Our constituion did guarantee the freedom to practice religion. What is wrong in this picture is Islam however is controlled by the goverment. Sharia Court is unconstituional.


Can Mr. Badawi be a muslim scholar becoz he has a degree in islamic studies?

Yes he can. :D


condemning an ulamak is wrong in islam,so care to condemn mr. Nik aziz?

Where exactly in the Quran mentioned anything about an Ulama? As far as i know the Quran had never claimed it to be wrong or sinful. If it was an hadith then i think you should throw it out because it is simply a lie.


but then guys,it's okay for mr. nik aziz to debase others.he's an ulamak..and he's heading to heaven.that's what the muslims think.

Really, Muslim think like that? Maybe your over generalizing Muslims


Islam is a perfect religion,albeit this,the translator of the Holy Koran also known today as the muslim isn't

Who can claim to be perfect? Last time someone did that, he end up being crucified.


have you read an english translation of the holy Koran and a malay translation for the holy Koran and see the differences.what is the word righteous mean in malay?malay language lack the vocab to translate the words of God without a flaw.

Damn those UMNO translators.
given all the above,the muslims in malaysia,amid their lack of vocab,love to judge other ppl's after-life destinations.


eg: PAS supporters going to heaven

eg: DR M masuk neraka jahanam

who are these ppl to make the judgement on behalf of the Almighty?

so labeling one group as heading to hell,has made the group less attractive and hence lead to a monopoly of power by the heaven-going groups and turning these ppl more remarkable.

Who is who?


using islam as the tool for political gains are a convincing way to lure ppl to follow them.
There's many ways of convincing people to join them. UMNO also use Islam for political gains. No?


a month ago,in the harakah daily,there's this article telling about why only the muslim scholars should lead PAS.

Years ago before you were even born, UMNO leaders had promised their memebers that only a Malay would lead this country and it should never to fall into the hands of the chinese! boo-hoo. I guess they're doing a fantastic job. 48 years and counting.


i think this piece is too long.i have lengthy things to write about PAS becoz I almost spew when those who support UMNO is ridiculed,called cronies when those fanning PAS are brave enough to state their political affliations anywhere they want.

You do know why. because they're ashamed of it.


why certain ppl must impose their political affliations on others,debunking those who dont sing the same tune?i know so many of my friends who choose to address themselves as neutral,simply becoz they have trepidation of being rejected by their friends who after all,a huge portion of them are anti-goverment ppl.

Are you serious? because in Malaysia we have 7 national television channels, about 11 national radio channels, more then 22 local radio channels about 5000 Mosque that are imposing UMNO led BN politics to everybody.


isn't it weird,the anti-gov ppl are saying that their freedom of speech are inhabited by the mainstream medias but in private settings they themselves oppressed the freedom of speech of those who think the gov as fine.

I don't beleive this is the case as you can clearly see on the internet, malaysiakini.com for an example have a balanced reportings on the politics in Malaysia. [/quote]


UMNO is here to stay.They need good leaders who of coz will be shunned away from those who still think UMNO as the trampoline for hell.

Yup, United Malays National Organization would be in power as long as they are malays who were born a racist.


3 months ago,Dr. Mashitah may be on the heaven side..but since
she supports UMNO now,she is now debunked profusely by those who once respected her words.

Yeah maybe in the next few years when Mashitah would somehow get charged with sodomizing her driver with her stiletto would prove PAS to be right.

Also i wonder why you are choosing PAS why not keadilan or DAP?

UMNO leaders had for many years potrayed PAS as an Extremist. I still remeber how UMNO created fear among Muslims when they talk about Hudud. I remeber reading the detailed torturing of hudud. How stealing more then 25 ringgit would get your wrist chopped off etc i berita harian. PAS is stigmatized with these propaganda.

12 years has past and Kelantan is still a secular state with a stricter Islam Police but somehow.. There's more people that get cought giving a blowjob, holding hands, fornicating out of wedlock in Penang, Perak, Selangor and Kuala lumpur. It makes me wonder who's actually trying to be the religious cop UMNO or PAS.

and back to the topic, If khairy was never related to Badawi i'm sure he would still be sitting in some office unknown to any of us doing things that we could careless about. Simple as A-B-C, Do-re-mi 1-2-3

Well in UMNO, charity starts at home.