The competencies of matrik VS STPM!

[Athersin]

UM Medicine student intake in 2008 has total of 205 students.
Out of this amount, only 28 people (14%) from STPM, whereas 177 students (86%) from matriculation. ** (i think the article wrote wrongly as 199 students)
hopefully you all can clarify the exact details when doing jifen...

In fact, this problem has been arose since the introduction of meritocracy in 2004.
I think all these 28 students from STPM are chinese and indian, while total number of chinese (88) and indian (12) is 100 students this year.
That means, ratio of matriculation to STPM is about 7:3!!
Why this things happen?
Don't ever tell me that matriculation students are much much intelligent than STPM students...
It should be around 5:5 in normal case because both matriculation and STPM have top students...
This scenario reminds us the story of apple and orange as well as discourage students to enter STPM http://quansheng.org/forum/Smileys/classic/sad.gif

Conclusion??
Matriculation easier??
Why not everyone just entering matriculation or STPM and standardise everything to achieve the real meritocracy!

** UM medicine intake is use for comparison just because a lot top students (4As) are applying for it~

[choogirl]

Hmm... I have heard of a malay girl who did not get straight a's (dunno in stpm or matriks) in art stream but got into UM for medic.

Actually, even if that's true, it's still worth taking STPM. STPM opens up so many opportunities for you even in overseas (all uni accept STPM same level as A-level) but matriks is only accepted in Malaysia. Besides, it's quite unfair to just see one course and one particular year to judge everything... No one said Matriks and STPM ratio was supposed to be 1:1

[luminodreamer89]

Of course it's worth taking STPM, unless your mind has been set to stay in local uni-s.
This same old issue has been discussed over and over again. I guess, it wont be solved in near future, at least in the next 2-3 years.
Well, what we can do is to source for our own ways out.

[wenghong]

yeah..matrix is forever local..and if u're a non-bumi, u dont really stand a chance lo..bumiputeras are the 1st for the government..

actually form 6 aint that bad after all..its only kinda tough but if ones work hard, the word tough wont really exist..=]

[Athersin]

It is of the weightages that count. U see, guys, STPM open many doors thus more difficult and need a couples of years to complete it compared to Matriculation.

I am one matric students and i dun think it is rather easy if u happen to see our PSPM2 papers. It is quite tricky the question and need a logical thinking and application of theory, i dare said that it is not about fair or unfair, u get what u sow.
For matric, the marking standard may not be that strict. BUT, we can just ended up in local uni...the chances going overseas is pretty slim. but still possible.

If i were the edu minister, i will sure abolish all the quota thingy, select those who are really competent regardless of skin color, interview is one way to ensure the effectiveness in the filtration process!

[supergoh]

UM Medicine is not as prestigious as before.In fact ,the standard of medical education in local public universities is dropping faster than the popularity of Barisan Nasional.

Check out this website
http://blog.limkitsiang.com/2008/07/17/university-of-malaya-medical-student-intake/

[Miracle_seed]

Back to the first question of this thread, like it or not, it's a fact that the higher ranked universities in Malaysia would favor matriculation students over STPM students for medicine, if you go from UM to UKM to USM, you can see the ratio changes from 7:3 to 6:4 to perhaps 5:5. There is nothing to do with competency, I would rather say, it's policy, sort of discrimination against STPM students.

However, on the other hand, if you score 3.88 in STPM, you still stand a chance to get a place for medicine in UMS, while for matriculation students you might need more, say 3.92.

[Athersin]

Nowadays, or perhaps in future, STPM would be more recognised by gov. Many malays do study STPM, it is not saying that more malays in matric, thus the priority is given to them , and on the other hand, more non bumi take STPM and being sidelined by gov. It is just all about how well u fare in both exams.

As for the CGPA point and the seection process into respective courses, it shud be transparent than b4..just hoping that the hard work that everyone strive out would be payed off by getting ur favoured courses at IPTA.
Getting a course out of ur 8 choices is rather pathetic which i hope it would never ever happen to me. :wink

[supergoh]

If Pakatan Rakyat really wins the next general elections ,there will be only one common route to IPTA for Malaysians.Hopefully Pakatan Rakyat is also able to restore the reputation of medical education in public universities.

So all of us must vote carefully in the next general elections.:))

It is true that many Malays do take STPM,but most of them take art stream.

Actually,it is discrimination against non Malay rather than against STPM students.It is hard to imagine a Malay who scores four flat in STPM(science stream) ,but is not offered a place in IPTA medicine.Or maybe he or she is immediately sent overseas to study medicine.

[SapphireDragon]

If Pakatan Rakyat really wins the next general elections ,there will be only one common route to IPTA for Malaysians.Hopefully Pakatan Rakyat is also able to restore the reputation of medical education in public universities.

So all of us must vote carefully in the next general elections.:))

It is true that many Malays do take STPM,but most of them take art stream.

Actually,it is discrimination against non Malay rather than against STPM students.It is hard to imagine a Malay who scores four flat in STPM(science stream) ,but is not offered a place in IPTA medicine.Or maybe he or she is immediately sent overseas to study medicine.

hey, have u all heard what one UMNO leader said in the UMNO General Assembly? He said that all vice-chancellors and deputy VCs in public unis should be UMNO loyalists so that they are in control. What outdated and uncivilised thinking. Shouldn't politics and education not mix in the very 1st place?

[luminodreamer89]

Well, PR does make a change in the society these days.
However, I would say dont rely on PR too much. The PR itself are built on different ideologies. How far can they go? Only time will tell.
The common pitfall in Malaysia would be the intervention of political power in the field of education. So we have the notorious AUKU 1971.

Sorry, digress too much..
Well, if u r planning to enter local public U, be forewarned, mind your words.
Back to the topic, Matriks and STPM. We can't literally compare both examination systems. But, personal preference, if there are only two choices in my hand, I will opt for STPM.

[supergoh]

hey, have u all heard what one UMNO leader said in the UMNO General Assembly? He said that all vice-chancellors and deputy VCs in public unis should be UMNO loyalists so that they are in control. What outdated and uncivilised thinking. Shouldn't politics and education not mix in the very 1st place?

Of course,I have heard about it.Our universities have plummeted so embarrassingly in world rankings.The UMNO leader wanted to make sure they drop further.

In fact,one of the reasons that British Medical Council derecognised UM medical degree is because UM accepts STPM students and matric students.They are considered unequal in quality.(Sorry,I do not mean to offend matric students here).

[SapphireDragon]

Why can't malaysia follow singapore? Meritocracy is the best thing to do...if you're good you are accepted, if you're nt good, get lost, dun care if you're filthy rich or from royalty.

I also think STPM and matriks should be merged into one. Why the double standrds? One is onl 1 year whereas STPM is 2 years. And matriks is on the top list in public unis. Sorry to offend any matriks students here but its the cold hard truth.

[Miracle_seed]

Actually,it is discrimination against non Malay rather than against STPM students.It is hard to imagine a Malay who scores four flat in STPM(science stream) ,but is not offered a place in IPTA medicine.Or maybe he or she is immediately sent overseas to study medicine.Actually, ever since the 128 incidence, students who score 4 flat in STPM but not offered medicine is almost unheard of, the primary reason being the decrease in number of STPM students scoring 4.0. It's better to cut their throats earlier then allowing them to complain when they can't get medicine later. Furthermore, number of places for medicine in public universities increased over last few years, that now there are more than 1000 places available each year, far exceeding the number of 4 flatters applying for medicine from both courses. Last year I know some STPM non-4-flatters from my hometown who were given medicine in USM and UMS (some 5th to 7th choice) even though they didn't intend to do medicine in the first place (I think both applied for dentistry as first choice).

[supergoh]

It seems that the government is now keen on increasing the number of doctors without regard to the quality of medical education.The government wants to spoil the job market to lower health costs.It is best for STPM students to study medicine overseas as in the future,patients will have more choices to choose from and will only choose doctors that they can rely on.

If Malaysia could follow Singapore to practice meritocracy,Singapore would not have separated from Malaysia.

[Miracle_seed]

[QUOTE=supergoh;223299]It seems that the government is now keen on increasing the number of doctors without regard to the quality of medical education.The government wants to spoil the job market to lower health costs.It is best for STPM students to study medicine overseas as in the future,patients will have more choices to choose from and will only choose doctors that they can rely on.

If Malaysia could follow Singapore to practice meritocracy,Singapore would not have separated from Malaysia.Overseas graduates don't necessarily better than local graduates, it's the quality of the doctor itself that matters...

[luminodreamer89]

yea agree with miracle seed.

[supergoh]

[quote=supergoh;223251]Overseas graduates don't necessarily better than local graduates, it's the quality of the doctor itself that matters...

In reality,only highly skilled professors can produce highly skilled graduates.

Generally overseas graduates are better than local graduates if the overseas universities admit students based on meritocracy and is very concerned about their world rankings.

Our local universities place emphasis on quantity more than quality.

Maybe the link I inserted before is not so convincing.Let me add one more.
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/37041

[YEE]

Now this is my case. I got 9 a1 and 1 a2 in my SPM. I am sure that my co-cu achievement make me proud. but unluckily, i failed to get a place in matri. Maybe they only take straight a1 students. Actually, I am not eagering to get into matri, hence I was calm after i knew I have been rejected. But after that, I feel scared.......I wonder where should i go to continue my study, form 6? why should i follow the same route as those didn't do well in SPM? Ya...i know, form 6 is good. stronger foundation, recognised worldwide and bla bla bla.I know the benefit of studying in form 6 but I am not sure if i can withstand the pressure. how if i fail to get good result then? My parents want me to appeal to get offer from matri, but is that a necessary? for me, if that is not belong to me then I just choose form 6 although i also need some time to accept this fact. :cry
another problem, hope to get advices from you all, i wish to change from science to art stream as i think i wont involve in science in my future career, will it be a big challenge for me in the next 2 years?

[Koschei]

Why can't malaysia follow singapore? Meritocracy is the best thing to do...if you're good you are accepted, if you're nt good, get lost, dun care if you're filthy rich or from royalty.

Just thought I'd chip in. Despite what the Singapore government says (and despite what you want to believe), Singapore does not practice meritocracy. Take a look at the number of Malays admitted into courses like Law and Medicine. How about how easy it is for mainland chinese to get Singaporean PRs? Alternatively, you could look at the cabinet lineup, or their military. If that isn't enough, then how about the elite sap schools that are meant only for chinese? I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.

I am aware that this is not related to the original topic, but Singapore is not the utopia that you would like to think it is.

@<hidden>: What do you want to do in the future?

[supergoh]

Just thought I'd chip in. Despite what the Singapore government says (and despite what you want to believe), Singapore does not practice meritocracy. Take a look at the number of Malays admitted into courses like Law and Medicine. How about how easy it is for mainland chinese to get Singaporean PRs? Alternatively, you could look at the cabinet lineup, or their military. If that isn't enough, then how about the elite sap schools that are meant only for chinese? I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.

I am aware that this is not related to the original topic, but Singapore is not the utopia that you would like to think it is.

@<hidden>: What do you want to do in the future?


Dear Koschei,

Maybe you should look at the Indians who make a smaller Singapore population percentage than the Malays.Their number in courses like Law and Medicine and cabinet lineup is surprisingly higher than the Malays.

For the military,Singapore Malays loyalty to Singapore is still questionable because they like their race more than their nation.

For elite sap school,Singapore government wants to make sure the Chinese community there are not too western minded until they lose their cultural roots.Unlike the Malays,the Chinese are easily influenced by western culture .Some even cannot speak their mother tongue.

For Singapore PR issue,it is in the interest of Singapore because China has many talented and rich people.

[Athersin]

Look at singapore PM -Lee xian Long, he is chinese..of course chinese will sure uphold their own culture and the roots of its mother tongue.
Look at malaysia and what is this for? MALAY? Chinese ? Indian? It is rather obscure .Malaysia has her own bumiputera and non -bumi as well.

Btw,U guys seriously went off topic.

As for YEE, Not getting matric is not a big deal. U can go on with STPM, try ur best and strike for 4.00.
i believe Science stream student who switch to arts stream wont have much problem but not to the vice versa.

[supergoh]

Sorry,Athersin.Just want to enlighten Koschei.

Dear Yee,

Try to challenge yourself to study STPM.

I myself is an STPM graduate .I dun think STPM is so difficult.Only Chemistry is a little bit tough.In my year,Biology and Mathematics were easy to score.

[hui89]

Sorry,Athersin.Just want to enlighten Koschei.

Dear Yee,

Try to challenge yourself to study STPM.

I myself is an STPM graduate .I dun think STPM is so difficult.Only Chemistry is a little bit tough.In my year,Biology and Mathematics were easy to score.

Agreed. STPM is not that difficult actually. As long as you do revision every day and do a lot of exercises like the pass year questions then, it should be not a problem. I took STPM last year.

Remember,nothing is impossible!!:P

[angel_tnp29]

Now this is my case. I got 9 a1 and 1 a2 in my SPM. I am sure that my co-cu achievement make me proud. but unluckily, i failed to get a place in matri. Maybe they only take straight a1 students. Actually, I am not eagering to get into matri, hence I was calm after i knew I have been rejected. But after that, I feel scared.......I wonder where should i go to continue my study, form 6? why should i follow the same route as those didn't do well in SPM? Ya...i know, form 6 is good. stronger foundation, recognised worldwide and bla bla bla.I know the benefit of studying in form 6 but I am not sure if i can withstand the pressure. how if i fail to get good result then? My parents want me to appeal to get offer from matri, but is that a necessary? for me, if that is not belong to me then I just choose form 6 although i also need some time to accept this fact. :cry
another problem, hope to get advices from you all, i wish to change from science to art stream as i think i wont involve in science in my future career, will it be a big challenge for me in the next 2 years?


Well, do you really think that matrix is for those who has good results??? You know what, a lot of my friends who got matrix with only minimum 2 As (she is not active in co-C) ! So you consider 2 As as good results? How about my friend who got 11A and 1 B? She didn't get Matrix, so do u think her results is not good enough? I don't agree that u said form 6 is the path for those who didn't do well in their spm. Do u know, the quality of CGPA 4.00 in STPM is much more better than matrix! Because STPM is worldwide recognize, but matrix only for IPTA in Malaysia. That mean if you can't get the course that u want to do once you complete ur matrix, then u have no other choice beside taking it. But if u do stpm, u can go either IPTA, IPTS, overseas or apply for scholarship. The road after STPM is wider than matrix. So please think before u post, or u will make those who want to go to form 6 with excellent results mad.

[YEE]

Well, do you really think that matrix is for those who has good results??? You know what, a lot of my friends who got matrix with only minimum 2 As (she is not active in co-C) ! So you consider 2 As as good results? How about my friend who got 11A and 1 B? She didn't get Matrix, so do u think her results is not good enough? I don't agree that u said form 6 is the path for those who didn't do well in their spm. Do u know, the quality of CGPA 4.00 in STPM is much more better than matrix! Because STPM is worldwide recognize, but matrix only for IPTA in Malaysia. That mean if you can't get the course that u want to do once you complete ur matrix, then u have no other choice beside taking it. But if u do stpm, u can go either IPTA, IPTS, overseas or apply for scholarship. The road after STPM is wider than matrix. So please think before u post, or u will make those who want to go to form 6 with excellent results mad.
just to say, sorry....sincerely,sorry! i am really confusing now, don know what to do and where to study, thats why......:(

[Miracle_seed]

In reality,only highly skilled professors can produce highly skilled graduates.

Generally overseas graduates are better than local graduates if the overseas universities admit students based on meritocracy and is very concerned about their world rankings.

Our local universities place emphasis on quantity more than quality.

Maybe the link I inserted before is not so convincing.Let me add one more.
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/37041How many STPM students, or any other pre-U students actually get into those better medical schools overseas? I doubt it... US medical schools are out of reach for most as they require a degree to enter. How many self-sponsored students actually get into those better medical schools in UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore etc..? I'm afraid less than 50 every year. Most of them actually end up in local private universities, or twinning programmes, I'm not saying these are not good, but there are still some distance away from what you think is the best outcome.
Just thought I'd chip in. Despite what the Singapore government says (and despite what you want to believe), Singapore does not practice meritocracy. Take a look at the number of Malays admitted into courses like Law and Medicine. How about how easy it is for mainland chinese to get Singaporean PRs? Alternatively, you could look at the cabinet lineup, or their military. If that isn't enough, then how about the elite sap schools that are meant only for chinese? I could go on and on, but I think you get my point.

I am aware that this is not related to the original topic, but Singapore is not the utopia that you would like to think it is.
Can you provide any exact figure for this? Please keep in mind that Malays make up about 14% of Singapore population, so if there are 10-15% of Malays in any course, it is at all acceptable.

[angel_tnp29]

just to say, sorry....sincerely,sorry! i am really confusing now, don know what to do and where to study, thats why......:(

So please don't say something that will annoy others. Think first before you post anything. I'm in the same batch as you, and I'm going to STPM. For your information, I didnt apply matrix. It is hard to get into matrix for non-Bumi. Only 10% is given to non-bumi. Beside that, you have no other choice beside IPTA. What if you cannot get the course that you want? Let say u want to do medic, but they giv u BioTech, then u must go for it. That mean u hav no full freedom to decide wat do u really want to do after matrix. If you don't want to go for STPM, then you can go for other pre-U courses like SAM,A-LEVEL or foundation courses in IPTS. But the cheapest way is either scholarship or form 6. Based on your results, I think you can go for STPM. Try to apply for the best school in your area.

[supergoh]

just to say, sorry....sincerely,sorry! i am really confusing now, don know what to do and where to study, thats why......:(

Dear Yee,

Actually matrix does not accept students with brilliant SPM results.

Matrix usually accepts KAMPUNG students.

That is the reason why some of my friends changed their home address to KAMPUNG.Finally,they got into matrix.

I also heard some dropped matrix because they could not get used to matrix lifestyle.

For STPM,you still can comfortably enjoy in your own house.

I strongly recommmed you to study STPM.

[SapphireDragon]

Actually there is a friend of mine who has straight A1s and a B3 but till managed to get matriks. But he's Scout pengerusi and King Scout too. STPM or matriks....it doesn't really matter that much. Just work hard and anythin is possible.

[Miracle_seed]

Actually matrix does not accept students with brilliant SPM results.

Matrix usually accepts KAMPUNG students.

That is the reason why some of my friends changed their home address to KAMPUNG.Finally,they got into matrix.

I also heard some dropped matrix because they could not get used to matrix lifestyle.

For STPM,you still can comfortably enjoy in your own house.

I strongly recommmed you to study STPM.You're going to offend many students with that statement.

I agree that matriculation emphasize on taking "luar bandar" (I guess this word sounds better) students. And yeah, it isn't easy to adapt to matriculation lifestyle if you used to be spoon fed back at home, also it isn't easy for non-bumis who come from a pure non-bumi background to fit in, imagine some 90% are Malay, and some students just can't get used to Malay food.

It isn't that easy to survive in matriculation as well, most of the time they have below-par lecturers, and no one to depend on other than own self, as there is no tuition available unlike STPM, and they need to rush through the syllabus in 10-month time. Those who have gone through matriculation will agree with me. I'm not saying Form 6 is easier, just that both have their hardships to face. The main advantage of matriculation is the low cutoff point for A.

[youngyew]

Actually matrix does not accept students with brilliant SPM results.
You're going to offend many students with that statement.
Isn't it a known fact? I do know many examples of good students not getting accepted. Or at least, it's quite often the case for people from urban area.

[Miracle_seed]

Isn't it a known fact? I do know many examples of good students not getting accepted. Or at least, it's quite often the case for people from urban area.I think it should be rephrased as "not all brilliant students are accepted into matriculation", as the statement above simply means that all students accepted into matriculation are not brilliant, which I find not true...

[youngyew]

I think it should be rephrased as "not all brilliant students are accepted into matriculation", as the statement above simply means that all students accepted into matriculation are not brilliant, which I find not true...
Ahh yup I agree to that.

[Keiko123]

Actually matrix does not accept students with brilliant SPM results.

Isn't it a known fact? I do know many examples of good students not getting accepted. Or at least, it's quite often the case for people from urban area.

I dont agree with you all DEFINITELY.
Most applicants who were accepted, got straight A's or even straight A1's.
Excellent students with brilliant SPM results manage to get Matriculation, but why didnt the students with not-so-excellent but the the result is considered as "ok" (let say, 8 1A's, 2 2A's) get Matriculation?
I'm quite disappointed about this... :notrust

[Miracle_seed]

I dont agree with you all DEFINITELY.
Most applicants who were accepted, got straight A's or even straight A1's.
Excellent students with brilliant SPM results manage to get Matriculation, but why didnt the students with not-so-excellent but the the result is considered as "ok" (let say, 8 1A's, 2 2A's) get Matriculation?
I'm quite disappointed about this... :notrust
Talking about chance of getting a place in matriculation, I think there are many factors in play, results definitely not the main factor, but to certain extent, you will need at least a decent results (around 8 to 9As) to qualify for the "lucky draw".
1. Area you're from, i.e. rural area has much better chance of getting. You can still fill in the form as "luar bandar" if you're not from the middle of the city. If you are from a mid-sized town, or even outskirt of a city, you can still consider yourself as rural. Of course, you can never say you're from luar bandar if your school is in Bukit Bintang.
2. School, for non-bumis, SMJK schools do stand a better chance, I don't know why, but it seems they like to pick non-bumis from SMJK school.
3. Income, the lower, the better, and unlike other scholarships, they don't check (I don't think they go through the hassles to check for the income of ten of thousands applicants), and most people (except government servants I suppose) do cheat in the income column.
4. Family factor, this is what I observed, if you have an elder sibling who applied for matriculation before, and get rejected, you are very unlikely to get it, unless because his/her results don't meet the "lucky draw" requirement. If you have an elder sibling who got matriculation before, your chance is high. If you don't have any elder sibling applying before, your chance is neutral.
5. Last but not least, luck! You really can't find any connection among the successful applicants, except may be "family inheritance", so luck still plays an important role.

[supergoh]

I think it should be rephrased as "not all brilliant students are accepted into matriculation", as the statement above simply means that all students accepted into matriculation are not brilliant, which I find not true...

Yes,I agree with you.It should be "not all brilliant students are accepted into matriculation".In a rush,I wrote something wrong.

Sorry to matric students here.

What I wanted to emphasize is academic results are not a main factor.Where you live is a very important factor.

[Athersin]

Yes,I agree with you.It should be "not all brilliant students are accepted into matriculation".In a rush,I wrote something wrong.

Sorry to matric students here.

What I wanted to emphasize is academic results are not a main factor.Where you live is a very important factor.

i am quoating you because i felt that ur statement is not really a completely true statement, it may be true for certain people, but you know guys, i live at Bandar , a town so called Cheras. But i still manage to get matriculation. Of cos, many students do cheat in their adress, income and bilangan tanggungan just to make them look 'poor'.

MOE select students based on not only meritocracy but also family income and background factors.
Instead of focussing on whichever issues they consider for the selection criteria, why not thinking that they should make it a point in order to make everthing tranparents. that way it would satisfy more people.

[eugenetoh91]

MOE select students based on not only meritocracy but also family income and background factors.
Instead of focussing on whichever issues they consider for the selection criteria, why not thinking that they should make it a point in order to make everthing tranparents. that way it would satisfy more people.

Transparent is something hardly can happen in our country when it comes to education.Matriculation, JPA, Petronas, Telekom, TNB and other more government-linked scholarships are some of the best examples I can exemplify to you all. Non-bumis always hope that the government's policy can be more transparent when selecting students for scholarships but the fact is the government can't do this kind of things. It can't afford to reveal all the infomation of the selected students because it will difinitely cause a riot in our country, seeing that why on earth those who are having such a lousy result can get the scholarship or anything pertaining to education sponsorships. And if the government reveals the personal details of the scholarship students, it is really no doubt we will see that a lot of bumis are getting the scholarship while having a not so bad or even worse results. Won't you think riot will happen again? haiz,,,what a country..:)

[SapphireDragon]

Transparent is something hardly can happen in our country when it comes to education.Matriculation, JPA, Petronas, Telekom, TNB and other more government-linked scholarships are some of the best examples I can exemplify to you all. Non-bumis always hope that the government's policy can be more transparent when selecting students for scholarships but the fact is the government can't do this kind of things. It can't afford to reveal all the infomation of the selected students because it will difinitely cause a riot in our country, seeing that why on earth those who are having such a lousy result can get the scholarship or anything pertaining to education sponsorships. And if the government reveals the personal details of the scholarship students, it is really no doubt we will see that a lot of bumis are getting the scholarship while having a not so bad or even worse results. Won't you think riot will happen again? haiz,,,what a country..:)

Actually, I disagree with you. My point is: We are all Malaysians who are supposed to be treated equally, who are supposed to be given equal opportunities especially in the ever important field of education. Note that I said "should", it doesn't mean he current system is doing it. We have to stand up for our rights as taxpayers and citizens to know where our money goes to. Do you want more brain drain? More talented individuals to work in Singapore? You can't justify this by saying there MIGHT be racial riots. I'm not trying to be racist here and please don't arrest me under ISA. I just think that we have been independent for 50 years, shouldn't we all be equal. Remember Najib's 1 Malaysia concept? Hope he is serious about it or the next election will be his downfall....

[eugenetoh91]

Actually, I disagree with you. My point is: We are all Malaysians who are supposed to be treated equally, who are supposed to be given equal opportunities especially in the ever important field of education. Note that I said "should", it doesn't mean he current system is doing it. We have to stand up for our rights as taxpayers and citizens to know where our money goes to. Do you want more brain drain? More talented individuals to work in Singapore? You can't justify this by saying there MIGHT be racial riots. I'm not trying to be racist here and please don't arrest me under ISA. I just think that we have been independent for 50 years, shouldn't we all be equal. Remember Najib's 1 Malaysia concept? Hope he is serious about it or the next election will be his downfall....

Haha. Are you sure you disagree with me? It feels like we have the same concept point of view. What I meant was our country should be really transparent in the education but it is hardly going to do that. The government knows thoroughly the weakness of the bumis, so it created a non-transparent education system like what we have now. Therefore, they get A1 much easier for the subjects they are surely going to take, and they get the scholarships easier also without anyone notice what their criteria are. If M'sia were to follow Singapore education system or USA privatised education system, I fervently do not think those people with bad results and bad co-curriculum are going to score easily and get scholarships easily. Snatching the oppoturnity from the people who are better than you is no doubt a sin, to me.

[SapphireDragon]

Haha. Are you sure you disagree with me? It feels like we have the same concept point of view. What I meant was our country should be really transparent in the education but it is hardly going to do that. The government knows thoroughly the weakness of the bumis, so it created a non-transparent education system like what we have now. Therefore, they get A1 much easier for the subjects they are surely going to take, and they get the scholarships easier also without anyone notice what their criteria are. If M'sia were to follow Singapore education system or USA privatised education system, I fervently do not think those people with bad results and bad co-curriculum are going to score easily and get scholarships easily. Snatching the oppoturnity from the people who are better than you is no doubt a sin, to me.

Well said! The absence of meritocracy is already a sin in every corner of the world. US has already accepted a black president. Africa has denounced apartheid a long time ago (Come to think of it, when you recall Frm 5 Sejarah, Malaysia likes to condemn apartheid in UN talks, but ironically now, it is instead practising it!) I don't think there is ever a country in this world that sets quotas for a particluar race. Even when it does, it sets for the minority races so that they are not left out. Here, terbalik pulak...

[hansley]

I personally think that STPM graduates should be given a higher priority compared to matriculation. It is true that STPM is inevitably gven hiher recognition compared to matriculation.

I think basically 'luck' is needed to enter matriculation, for certain races. I'm being a racist here though. Just my personal opinion.

[Keiko123]

2. School, for non-bumis, SMJK schools do stand a better chance, I don't know why, but it seems they like to pick non-bumis from SMJK school.

What's the difference between SMJK and SMK?
So... Non-bumis from SMK school stand lower chance?


4. Family factor, this is what I observed, if you have an elder sibling who applied for matriculation before, and get rejected, you are very unlikely to get it, unless because his/her results don't meet the "lucky draw" requirement. If you have an elder sibling who got matriculation before, your chance is high. If you don't have any elder sibling applying before, your chance is neutral.


WoW! It's really unfair if there's a policy like this. There will be a situation, a family with all children get Matriculation, and a family with none of the children get into Matriculation... Wont it be weird? LOL.

My chance is neutral, but the luck at least should bless me a bit... Hehe.

I do hope your signature would come into my life sooner or later. :))

[SapphireDragon]

I dn't think such a policy about this sibling thing exists.

[Keiko123]

Dont know...
May be it did exist?

Anyway, I dont support such policy...

It's better to choose based on all aspects...

[Miracle_seed]

What's the difference between SMJK and SMK?
So... Non-bumis from SMK school stand lower chance?SMJK schools are former chinese schoosl but get transformed into national type schools, and 90% of their students are Chinese. If I remember correctly, in the application form, there is a column filling in type of school, and there is such category, why do they want to have it anyway? If they are not going to make use of it?

WoW! It's really unfair if there's a policy like this. There will be a situation, a family with all children get Matriculation, and a family with none of the children get into Matriculation... Wont it be weird? LOL.

My chance is neutral, but the luck at least should bless me a bit... Hehe.

I do hope your signature would come into my life sooner or later. :))I can give you some examples from my school (Siblings from different years):
Family 1: 3 siblings, all straight As, all accepted into matriculation
Family 2: 2 brothers, elder 10A, younger 8A, both accepted.
Family 3: 3 brothers, elder 8A, second straight A, both accepted, younger not eligible yet.
Family 4: 4 siblings, elder two are way too old, third straight A, youngest 6A, both accepted.

Any similarities? I guess not... Coincidence? Not likely...

[Keiko123]

SMJK schools are former chinese schoosl but get transformed into national type schools, and 90% of their students are Chinese. If I remember correctly, in the application form, there is a column filling in type of school, and there is such category, why do they want to have it anyway? If they are not going to make use of it?

Oh I see...
I dont really know all about these things... May be you're correct.
I think I chose "Sekolah Harian" as my school is SMK.

I can give you some examples from my school (Siblings from different years):
Family 1: 3 siblings, all straight As, all accepted into matriculation
Family 2: 2 brothers, elder 10A, younger 8A, both accepted.
Family 3: 3 brothers, elder 8A, second straight A, both accepted, younger not eligible yet.
Family 4: 4 siblings, elder two are way too old, third straight A, youngest 6A, both accepted.

Any similarities? I guess not... Coincidence? Not likely...

Hmm.. Speechless. :amazed
Because of luck? LOL.
Perhaps because of family heritage? Haha. Nobody would know.

[Miracle_seed]

Oh I see...
I dont really know all about these things... May be you're correct.
I think I chose "Sekolah Harian" as my school is SMK.Some good examples are SMJK Jit Sin and SMJK Sin Min, these schools have many students getting into matriculation every year. I guess matriculation department of MOE loves them, huh?
Hmm.. Speechless. :amazed
Because of luck? LOL.
Perhaps because of family heritage? Haha. Nobody would know.Oh yeah, I forgot about another case..
Family 5: 3 siblings, elder and second both straight As, both not accepted, younger not eligible yet. Inheritance? :P

[Keiko123]

Some good examples are SMJK Jit Sin and SMJK Sin Min, these schools have many students getting into matriculation every year. I guess matriculation department of MOE loves them, huh?

Yea, may be.
Why doesnt the department of MOE love government schools as well... :notrust



Oh yeah, I forgot about another case..
Family 5: 3 siblings, elder and second both straight As, both not accepted, younger not eligible yet. Inheritance? :P

*faint*
LOL. Different people have different luck la...
I just wonder that why one family can have so many brilliat children? Hihi... Good...

[angel_tnp29]

Hmm..as I know 90% of matriks students are for bumi. Well, I'm from "luar bandar". And oneof my classmate who got matriks wif only 2A in her spm. She is pure Bumi. At the other school, still luar bandar, my another fren she didnt get matriks. She got 11A1B. Futhermore, both of them was not active in school co-curricular activities.

[SapphireDragon]

Hmm..as I know 90% of matriks students are for bumi. Well, I'm from "luar bandar". And oneof my classmate who got matriks wif only 2A in her spm. She is pure Bumi. At the other school, still luar bandar, my another fren she didnt get matriks. She got 11A1B. Futhermore, both of them was not active in school co-curricular activities.

well, in the 1st place, matriks doesn't take co-curricular activitis into consideration right? There was no filling up an application form or something or did it take it from JPA?

[kid]

well, in the 1st place, matriks doesn't take co-curricular activitis into consideration right? There was no filling up an application form or something or did it take it from JPA?

well, i dont think it takes from jpa, since there are some who doesnt apply for jpa, i think maybe it was taken from moe..

[Miracle_seed]

well, in the 1st place, matriks doesn't take co-curricular activitis into consideration right? There was no filling up an application form or something or did it take it from JPA?I though there were two columns for filling in? One for the highest post you hold in co-curricular activities, and another one is highest achievements? Okay, this is info from old people though... :P

[SapphireDragon]

I though there were two columns for filling in? One for the highest post you hold in co-curricular activities, and another one is highest achievements? Okay, this is info from old people though... :P

No, there is no form. I remember I just paid RM6 to the counsellor and he settled everything.

[Keiko123]

No form? Impossible.
How could your counsellor know every little personal details of students? :P

[SapphireDragon]

No form? Impossible.
How could your counsellor know every little personal details of students? :P

I dun know. Maybe he DID fill it up himself without the knwledge of students.

[Keiko123]

I dun know. Maybe he DID fill it up himself without the knwledge of students.

Hmm... That sounds weird! :))
Whatever it's, at least you get it now, no worries!

[Train_immortal]

Yup..when the first time i've read the topic i've already know that it'll turn like this. Our country randomly look really peaceful, united and so on..But the reallity is there's still many more 'defects'. i know that Malays are the pioneer in Tanah Melayu, they have sacrifies their land, which formerly discovered by their ascencors, experience hardships to protect themselve from the decades of colonization and also willing to share Malaysia with other races. Come to think about it, i think they've let many things from their hand. Eg: Singapore which is no longer Malay's. They give up all that for the sake of peace. i've been thinking, and thinking, and thinking again, if i were them, maybe it's hard for me to give up my inheritages with others too. i know i'll get flame after posting this, but i've decide to say out loud what i'm thinking....and i don't wanna bring this thing further lol...i'm mixed blood..and don't u know that bumis are not just malays? But when it comes to EDUCATION, i'm TOTALLY NOT AGREED!! I think if Malaysia want to be developted, quotas should be ELIMINATED. Those with better qualities deserve the best. My intention of posting this post is just to welcome all recommers to think deeply...i don't want malaysia to be chaotic like thailand or palestine.. i'm still thankfull to be malaysian...i'm really sorry of what i've said, but these are purely from my heart.

[choogirl]

Yes, I agree. But at the same time, perhaps quota is still needed because our society isn't ready for the Singapore style kinda thing. They can do that gradually though, like lowering quotas every year. This does not mean that the Non-bumis should be favoured but more like, everyone deserves an equal chance regardless of race.

[Charleen]

UM Medicine student intake in 2008 has total of 205 students.
Out of this amount, only 28 people (14%) from STPM, whereas 177 students (86%) from matriculation. ** (i think the article wrote wrongly as 199 students)
hopefully you all can clarify the exact details when doing jifen...

In fact, this problem has been arose since the introduction of meritocracy in 2004.
I think all these 28 students from STPM are chinese and indian, while total number of chinese (88) and indian (12) is 100 students this year.
That means, ratio of matriculation to STPM is about 7:3!!
Why this things happen?
Don't ever tell me that matriculation students are much much intelligent than STPM students...
It should be around 5:5 in normal case because both matriculation and STPM have top students...
This scenario reminds us the story of apple and orange as well as discourage students to enter STPM http://quansheng.org/forum/Smileys/classic/sad.gif

Conclusion??
Matriculation easier??
Why not everyone just entering matriculation or STPM and standardise everything to achieve the real meritocracy!

** UM medicine intake is use for comparison just because a lot top students (4As) are applying for it~


Where did u get this information? Are u going to apply UM medicine as well?

[Athersin]

Where did u get this information? Are u going to apply UM medicine as well?

I get this from the newspaper not so long ago. It stated like this and i have confirmed it with my seniors and it turns out to be the truth.
And yes, i have applied medicine at UM but it falls under my 3rd choice. :)
How about you?

[Miracle_seed]

I get this from the newspaper not so long ago. It stated like this and i have confirmed it with my seniors and it turns out to be the truth.
And yes, i have applied medicine at UM but it falls under my 3rd choice. :)
How about you?
It is a little weird to put UM medicine as 3rd choice, I wonder what are your first two choices then? Most of the time, if you don't put UM medicine in the first choice, you should remove it from the list, since the chance of getting it is virtually zero, and you probably just wasted a choice.

[Athersin]

It is a little weird to put UM medicine as 3rd choice, I wonder what are your first two choices then? Most of the time, if you don't put UM medicine in the first choice, you should remove it from the list, since the chance of getting it is virtually zero, and you probably just wasted a choice.
My first choice is dentistry and 2nd choice is pharmacy. Since i don't really like medicine compared to the two former, i just let medicine UM be my 3rd choice. Also, the places for medicine are more than what allocated for dentistry and pharmacy, thus if i happen not to get my 1st and 2nd choice , i might end up getting my 3rd choice-UM Medicine.

[Miracle_seed]

My first choice is dentistry and 2nd choice is pharmacy. Since i don't really like medicine compared to the two former, i just let medicine UM be my 3rd choice. Also, the places for medicine are more than what allocated for dentistry and pharmacy, thus if i happen not to get my 1st and 2nd choice , i might end up getting my 3rd choice-UM Medicine.It could be the case if your 3rd choice is medicine of other universities, but I think it's not likely to happen, since places UM medicine will be quickly filled up by first choice of other students, even before they consider your third choice.

[Athersin]

It could be the case if your 3rd choice is medicine of other universities, but I think it's not likely to happen, since places UM medicine will be quickly filled up by first choice of other students, even before they consider your third choice.

Maybe you are right too, mind to tell me how KPT going to select students accrding to their choices of courses?Does they sort students according to pointer like 4flat is to compete with 4 flat students? and koku is another tie breaker to determine the final selection?
Anyway, Mr Miracle Seed, are you IPTA student? And what course you are taking now?

[lawrenceleong88]

My teacher once told me, the will sort u accordingly from ur first to ur eighth. For example, a person has a not so high score n he is rejected from the first choice. The system will check if his second choiced university has any vacancy. If it doesn't then he will be forwarded to the third. 4 flat I guess will represent the 90 percent whereas the co-cu will be 10 percent.

[Athersin]

My teacher once told me, the will sort u accordingly from ur first to ur eighth. For example, a person has a not so high score n he is rejected from the first choice. The system will check if his second choiced university has any vacancy. If it doesn't then he will be forwarded to the third. 4 flat I guess will represent the 90 percent whereas the co-cu will be 10 percent.

let say there are 2 students: One get 4flat, 80% cocu, the other 3.9, 90% cocu, does that mean they stand an equal chance or the 4 flat one is more preferred ?

[lawrenceleong88]

The 4 flat one is preferred. So let it be clear, they compare among 4 flat-ters, and consider their co-cu marks.
I've read an article from Sinchew that even according to quota, Chinese and Indians have also lost a total of 40000++ places in Universities!!! Who is taking the extra slots???This is unfair!!!

[supergoh]

Dear Athersin,

You dun have to worry if you get 4 flat .

It is said that 4 flat scorer from matric would easily get a medical ,dentistry or pharmacy course in IPTA.

Actually,it seems that an IPTA place is reserved for every matric student.

IPTA(especially UM) seem to give priority to matric students,followed by luar bandar students.

[choogirl]

Hmm.. set your sights far. Don't just hope for local university. Did you all apply for overseas uni? Application for aussie universities june intake isn't close yet! ;)

[Athersin]

Dear Athersin,

You dun have to worry if you get 4 flat .

It is said that 4 flat scorer from matric would easily get a medical ,dentistry or pharmacy course in IPTA.

Actually,it seems that an IPTA place is reserved for every matric student.

IPTA(especially UM) seem to give priority to matric students,followed by luar bandar students.
You are very wrong with your bold statement. Do you know there are how many students end up in their appeal to IPTA every year?
Though matric has certain advantages but i dont see there is 4flat students granted their 1st choice courses easily. Esp this year, i believe every IPTA is going to reduce their intake for undergraduate courses. Thus you will see quite a number of people though they score a decent result, but still getting the courses that are totally out of their 8 choices.

Hmm.. set your sights far. Don't just hope for local university. Did you all apply for overseas uni? Application for aussie universities june intake isn't close yet! ;)
Is that possible for matric students to go overseas? i see there would be near 10% possibility only! We are not short-sighted or narrow minded , just that the situation not allowing us to venture further . If not i will be like my sister, having her final golden year at Manchester UNI!

[Miracle_seed]

Maybe you are right too, mind to tell me how KPT going to select students accrding to their choices of courses?Does they sort students according to pointer like 4flat is to compete with 4 flat students? and koku is another tie breaker to determine the final selection?
Anyway, Mr Miracle Seed, are you IPTA student? And what course you are taking now?
let say there are 2 students: One get 4flat, 80% cocu, the other 3.9, 90% cocu, does that mean they stand an equal chance or the 4 flat one is more preferred ?I'm not working with them, so I have no idea how exactly they select students... However, according to what I know, it goes like this: 90% comes from your CGPA, while 10% from co-curricular activities. Considering the examples you mentioned, the actual pointer for first student student would be 4.0x0.9 + 8x0.4 = 3.92, while second student would have 3.9x0.9 + 9x0.4= 3.87, so first student will have higher pointer, thus has an advantage. Co-curricular activities is said to be a tie breaker because when both score 4.0 for academic, the difference will only be co-curricular activities.

By the way, I'm not an IPTA student.
Dear Athersin,

You dun have to worry if you get 4 flat .

It is said that 4 flat scorer from matric would easily get a medical ,dentistry or pharmacy course in IPTA.

Actually,it seems that an IPTA place is reserved for every matric student.

IPTA(especially UM) seem to give priority to matric students,followed by luar bandar students.You are very wrong with your bold statement. Do you know there are how many students end up in their appeal to IPTA every year?
Though matric has certain advantages but i dont see there is 4flat students granted their 1st choice courses easily. Esp this year, i believe every IPTA is going to reduce their intake for undergraduate courses. Thus you will see quite a number of people though they score a decent result, but still getting the courses that are totally out of their 8 choices.
Actually I'm a little confused by the statement above, I wouldn't say that but it seems there are certain number of places reserved for matriculation students, especially in critical courses, so he is partially correct. STPM students still stand a chance, if they have good results and co-cu.

[choogirl]

Athersin: You are a matriks student? Ohh... I didnt know that. I was talking about STPM. I dont think any overseas uni accept direct entry for matriks. Perhaps you can try asking private uni whether they accept matriks for 2+1 sort of degree course?

[star90]

Hmm.. set your sights far. Don't just hope for local university. Did you all apply for overseas uni? Application for aussie universities june intake isn't close yet! ;)

so have you applied for aussie uni? u paid for the application fees? which uni u applied? sorry it's not related to this thread.. :S

[youngyew]

Sinchew Daily has a news article about the repercussion of prioritising Matriculation students over STPM students in university admission:

吳名‧醫生的素質問題 | 評論 (http://opinions.sinchew-i.com/node/9678)

(Sorry it's in Chinese language, you can go to http://translate.google.com for translation)

Someone wrote a rebuttal later:

吳名氏‧醫生素質與128事件無關 | 評論 (http://opinions.sinchew-i.com/node/9711)

(I am more inclined towards the first writing, but I would love to hear others' opinions)

[Miracle_seed]

This is an interesting article, and I believe the author is one of the victims of 128 incidence.

By the way, generally speaking, many matriculation students are not academically as good as STPM students, and if you find Chinese students failing the exam, they are most likely matriculation students, but at the same time I've heard of STPM students failing exam in medicine in one of the local universities, and need to retake the exam.

[Boyz_Zoo]

First of all, let just ignore the matriculation quota system. Matriculation and form 6 has its pros and cons.
Matriculation
It is undeniable that the standard of matri is lower and easier than STPM. BUT, lower and easier does not mean it is very low or easy. It is just easier compared to STPM.
Matri is tough in its own ways. Furthermore, the duration of matri is only a year. So, a lot need to be learned in a short time. I have asked someone who was in matri and he told me matri maybe be easier but it is frustrating as the time is short.
In Matri, at least the subject that matters included in GCPA which is Chemistry, Mathematics and Physics/ Biology. Thus, one don?t have to study subject that is means nothing much which is Pengajian Am. Of course there are other subjects in matri like Dinamika and Moral, but all you need is to pass.
The koku system in matri is 5% from secondary school and 5% from matri. So, all the work one has done in secondary school is not gone to waste unlike STPM.
Local U is not the only option for matri student. One can still go to private college or overseas but the options is lower.
Based on my research, matri students do have to study hard for the first year in the university but the difficulty can be overcome with perseverance.
Form 6
For those smart people, I believe you all like the challenges. So, form 6 is the right thing for you as it is very tough to score.
Furthermore, your koku marks will go back to zero so you have compete with the other form 6 and form 4 in that school for post. This will certain be a good challenge. However, koku is not that much important like in SPM as long as you get 4 flat, your koku might not affect much.
If one enrolls in form 6, you can still stay at home. Moreover, most of one?s friends who didn?t go to college will go to same school as one may go.
If one is planning to study overseas, form 6 is best way compared to matri.
Basically, we can all debate on which one is better and it will never end. The decision on going to Matriculation or Form 6 is up to the person. One have ask him/herself how is one?s financial resource and where one want to go to purse one?s degree. Local or overseas? Basically, one still have persevere not matter what one choose.

[bubblezlott3]

the famous battle between matrix and stpm.

honestly, choose stpm over matrix.
matrix is THE backdoor to local universities (especially to medic, dentistry and accounting) and there is no value in matrix. If you choose to go private after matrix (lets say overseas), you'll probably need to take entrance examinations to proof yourself worthy.

stpm is TOUGh but as long one is willing to accept the challenge. Impossible is Nothing. Anyone can do STPM. STPM is recognized world wide and you don't have to worry much about "i wonder this uni recognize my qualifications or not" and so on and so forth.

Honestly, i would anytime prefer STPM > than Matrix.

[Miracle_seed]

Form 6
For those smart people, I believe you all like the challenges. So, form 6 is the right thing for you as it is very tough to score.
Furthermore, your koku marks will go back to zero so you have compete with the other form 6 and form 4 in that school for post. This will certain be a good challenge. However, koku is not that much important like in SPM as long as you get 4 flat, your koku might not affect much.
If one enrolls in form 6, you can still stay at home. Moreover, most of one’s friends who didn’t go to college will go to same school as one may go.
If one is planning to study overseas, form 6 is best way compared to matri.
Basically, we can all debate on which one is better and it will never end. The decision on going to Matriculation or Form 6 is up to the person. One have ask him/herself how is one’s financial resource and where one want to go to purse one’s degree. Local or overseas? Basically, one still have persevere not matter what one choose.Believing co-curricular activities is not important is a common misconception, it does play a major role in determining your placement in local public university, as you will be tied with other 4 flat students in the 90% of academic marks, the seemingly insignificant 10% will be the tie breaker.

The statement should be written as: If one is planning to study overseas, form 6 is better way compared to matric. Best way is still doing A-Level/AusMat/SAT etc.. if you can afford it, the recognition is the same if not even wider but the exam is not that challenging..

matrix is THE backdoor to local universities (especially to medic, dentistry and accounting) and there is no value in matrix. If you choose to go private after matrix (lets say overseas), you'll probably need to take entrance examinations to proof yourself worthy. Backdoor is an offending word, I guess shortcut would sound better. By the way, I'm pretty sure 90% of matriculation students do not have or already give up their dream of studying overseas (at least for undergraduate) the moment they make their decision. I don't think anyone would choose matriculation if he/she still wants to go overseas. Most students who go to private universities after matriculation are those who don't get desired course in local public universities.

P/S: I just find that title of the thread is a little misleading considering the content and actual message of the first post.

[Boyz_Zoo]

Believing co-curricular activities is not important is a common misconception, it does play a major role in determining your placement in local public university, as you will be tied with other 4 flat students in the 90% of academic marks, the seemingly insignificant 10% will be the tie breaker.

The statement should be written as: If one is planning to study overseas, form 6 is better way compared to matric. Best way is still doing A-Level/AusMat/SAT etc.. if you can afford it, the recognition is the same if not even wider but the exam is not that challenging..
Backdoor is an offending word, I guess shortcut would sound better. By the way, I'm pretty sure 90% of matriculation students do not have or already give up their dream of studying overseas (at least for undergraduate) the moment they make their decision. I don't think anyone would choose matriculation if he/she still wants to go overseas. Most students who go to private universities after matriculation are those who don't get desired course in local public universities.

P/S: I just find that title of the thread is a little misleading considering the content and actual message of the first post.

I totally agree. You can just look down at matriculation. How about the smart people with low income? Of course they won't be going to overseas and their only way to pursuing a degree is private college and local U. Which one is cheaper for that fellow? local U of course.

[teenjay]

How about the smart people with low income? Of course they won't be going to overseas and their only way to pursuing a degree is private college and local U.

then what is the uses of loan and scholarship?

[kid]

haha, nice one teenjay...

[Boyz_Zoo]

then what is the uses of loan and scholarship?
Though there are various scholarship nowadays, it is does not the smart poor people will get. There so many things stopping them like the quota system and political connection. I know a few of my friends are using political connection to get the scholarship. Then, how about the people who actually deserves it?
PTPTN loan is an example loan but if one take STPM and didn't secure a place in local U or scholarship, one has to take a greater amount of loan to go private college. Furthermore, unemployment rate is increasing thanks to the global economical meltdown. i know that you can say that by the time one finishes one's degree, it will be over, but how sure are you? So, without getting a proper work the loan will come hunting you.
Hence, it is safer to take matri, cause at matri, government will giv semester elaun for the person. can get into local uni cheaper if no scholarship. taking loan will also be lower. though didn't get the right work, can pay up the loan by going a lot of odd jobs.

[izzakmp08]

well,i'm in search of info on matriculation n stpm for a debate when i found this site,n as a matrik student n i severely offended by some of the statement here...

well, it's a non denying fact that stpm maybe tougher than matrik, but there's some challenge in matriculation,

1st; if u failed in matrik, then u cant futher ur study anywhere , so u have to take diploma or stpm after that~waste of time/risk~.( alot of my friends who didnt get good result in our PSPM1 have to left matrik ) so if he or she i not qualified enough or get into matrik wif not-so-good spm result, then he must be kick out earlier than u expected.

2nd; u really need to take a race wif time as overall, u need to cover up 1chapter per week, (still remember how i feel leave out after going for a leadership camp for a week)

3rd; if u use to be pampered and didnt want to be out of ur comfort zone, then dont u ever enter matrik coz there u'll learn to adapt to uni life but without much freedom such as in uni.(realize that when i'm in uni, the form 6 grader take longer time to adapt wif the system).but i really love the way of different races can mingle well as different races share the same room.its one of the best way to understand others.

but stpm also have their own advantages. n i heard from my lecturer in matrik that uni prefered stpm student than matrik especially because of the syllabus is tougher.(didnt have any sources supporting this statement though)

n i totally agree on the opinion that in education we shold let the chances been given to the best achievers, not according to some stupid quota!!

btw, UM is trying to decrease their undergraduate intake to increase the quality of the students, but i didnt know if it is just for certain faculty or all of it..

[SapphireDragon]

Actually, to me, its not about which one is better: matrik or STPM. I am a matrik student and I once harboured the dream of studying overseas after scoring my SPM with flying colours. In fact, that's what every top student in Malaysia desires: to get an education overseas, preferably in the UK, Australia, US or some glamorous university for reasons best known to themselves. But even if you took STPM, is it a wise choice studying overseas? If I intend to take medicine or law, I would have chosen matriks because after STPM, I know I cant afford to study overseas financially. Not everyone is rich and has a family that can afford to sent their kids overseas. Maybe those who decided to just "hantam" matriculation should think twice before attacking. Have you ever thought that maybe we have different career aspirations than you that would have been impossible to venture overseas such as dentistry and medic without a wealthy family backing us? Have you ever thought that we have younger brothers and sisters for our parents to finance? Don't have a negative impression of matrik just because you have never went through it before. Human nature is like this: when we have made a choice in life, and in your case is STPM, we tend to adapt to it and in the end, support it vehemently and telling everyone on the planet that you have made the right choice. I don't know if that is a way of deluding ourselves but we all behave like that. Believe me, I didnt support matrik and looked down upon it at 1st just like you, but after I have completed my study in KMPP, I beg to differ. I now, just like you, have every reason to think that matrik may not be a bad choice after all. I have a feeling that I have made the right decision in choosing matrik BASED on the social and economic situation I faced at that time. I don't know for sure too if its a way of comforting myself from the harsh reality that I may not have an overseas education. That's human nature. But I have never looked back since and I am looking forward enthusiastically.

Believe me, I know just as much or maybe a little more than you do on the injustices of awarding places in matrik for non-bumis. I strongly disagree of the 10% quota but that doesn't mean I must reject matrik as a form of protest. I have many other things to consider in life such as family, life and financial status. I was depressed at that time as I was just freshly rejected by JPA. I had to make the decision of my life within just 2 days. So, its not a bed or roses as just choosing STPM for the sake of having a second shot of studying overseas.

Continuing from where I left off, for many students out there who wants to take medic, dentistry and pharmacy overseas, the entry requirements are very stringent overseas. Even our neighbour Singapore admits very little, or probably none at all, Malaysian STPM students into their medic, dentistry or pharmacy programme. I understand that most Malaysians who study in NUS and Nanyang are of pure science, business, engineering (few) and other courses only. Singapore reserves critical courses for its own people, whether you like it or not. What about Australia, UK, Canada? Ok, where do we get the money from to study there even if we got a place? Most unis dont offer scholarships and only have conditional offers fo you. That means you have to pay everything yourself: lodging, accomadation, food, tuition fees, clothes, air travel back home and God knows what more. I cant imagine myself spending so much of my parent's money just for the sake of an "overseas education". I cannot live everyday without feeling guilty that maybe I'm forsaking the education of one of my brother's just for the selfish sake of getting an "overseas education".

A scholarship from private companies of JPA for overseas you say? The selection processes are tough as we all know. It is not that I do not have the confidence and the capability of clinching one after my STPM. It's just that THE CONSEQUENCES OF NOT GETTING ONE IS A PRICE TOO STEEP I COULDN"T AFFORD TO PAY. What if I didn't get one? There goes my dream of studying overseas and I instead have to fight for a place in local uni with matrik student. Or even entering a private uni and end up paying quite a hefty sum of money along the way.

What's wrong with a Malaysian local uni education? Don't you wanna experience studying in one for once in your life as a Malaysian? I am aware of the bad image local uni has been portrayed in the news and on the THE-QS rankings (which are highly questionable and dubious anyway, as admitted by a THE official himself in The Star newspaper recently). But it's exciting getting to learn and experience for myself what's in store at local unis. I can have the valuable network of friends which are crucial when we enter the workforce later, a luxury that overseas students cannot get. I can save tonnes of money and lead a happy life knowing that my mum and dad do not have the financial baggage plaguing their lives everyday. I can experience the wonderful city life of KL if I enter UM, UKM or UPM. Ditto for Penang if I study at USM.

So, think twice and consider all aspects before arriving to a conclusion. I'm not here to promote matrik, I just want to tell that we are all different in terms of our dreams, family, financial status, capabilities and so much more. And it's best that we make a choice in life after we have considered everything, not just because some guy on Recom recommends this or that. For all you know, he may be a rich kid and have a different pathway than you. Don't always follow what others tell you, especially in Recom.

[kaiyi]

I agree with SapphireDragon. Well, I have no intention of studying medic, pharmacy, veterinary or dentistry from the very start. And my SPM result wasn't good enough for me to secure an oversea scholarship.So,I go for STPM, that's my gamble. We choose our path based on our reasoning. There's no correct and wrong. With good attitude, every path can lead to your dream life.

[acgerlok7]

For those who wanna aim overseas...well...your dreams won't just vanished coz' u need to do the degree locally...but you could aim for overseas too if you wanna pursue ur MBA?Masters/PHD later on...some of the bossess i may know do sponsor their staff for overseas improvement courses...and...if you graduate wif first class honours and with a hardworking attitude...I'm sure Multinationals such as Western Digital...Seagate...Shell for that matter will definitelyconsider you as a competent and high potential staff...If you are lucky...whu knows you might be send for overseas attachment..esp for those working in an Oil and Gas sector...=) Btw...My cousin whu worked in Seagate has the chance to go to USA for atachment under her company...and she's a graduate locally from UTAR...

[Young]

I don't think the criticism is aimed specifically at the Matriculation students. To do so would be foolish because as mentioned by SaphDragon, there are many factors influencing a student's decision to choose that particular programme.

However, I think criticism of the Matriculation programme itself makes a great deal of sense because of the obvious loopholes in the programme and in the entire education system itself.

Nobody should question your credibility based on your choice of Pre-U programme but that doesn't mean we cannot criticize the programme itself.

[YEE]

thanks for speak up for matrik students!!!!!!!!!!!
i am also another matrik leaver here. first of all, i have to admit that i used to be look down on matrik and wish to study overseas before i enter matrik. But finally i choose matrik. It does not mean that i give up my dream to study overseas but i just pospone the time when my dream comes true. I will still searching for the opportunities to realise it. Therefore, choosing matrik does not mean that we are giving up.
Besides, matrik is not as easy as stpm students thinking of. Undeniably,stpm students have to learn more, know more and memorise more than matrik students. The biggest challenge and stress for them come from academic. However, for matrik students, the challenge does not solely come from acedemic but also the totally changed lifestlye!

The challenge in academic is catching up the lectures. Do you know that the lecturers in matrik can go really fast when they have to finish the syllabus in time? 1 chapter in a week is common for us when studying in matrik and sometime even 1 chapter can be finished in 3 hours lecture! If you are thinking about study on your own, another problem occured which is lack of reference books. In order to overcome all of these, matrik students have to train themselves to think faster, absorb faster and even digest the knowledge faster as in kmph, for account students, we have tests everyweek!

The other challenge which differ matrik students from stpm students is coping with the great changes in daily life. for those who havent experienced living in boarding school before, they have to adapt the independence life without the help from parents. Especially when someone fall sick in matrik, no more mother to fetch you to see a doctor but instead, you have to go to hep and fill in the form and wait for the van which will only arrive the moment before you die.

As matrik students, we have to face these two challenges at the same time! Therefore, please dont look down to matrik students, we all are struggling to be stronger along this way.

[SapphireDragon]

I don't think the criticism is aimed specifically at the Matriculation students. To do so would be foolish because as mentioned by SaphDragon, there are many factors influencing a student's decision to choose that particular programme.

However, I think criticism of the Matriculation programme itself makes a great deal of sense because of the obvious loopholes in the programme and in the entire education system itself.

Nobody should question your credibility based on your choice of Pre-U programme but that doesn't mean we cannot criticize the programme itself.

Believe me, I criticised this programme a lot and I am still criticising this programme till now. To cut short on that oh so cliche 10% quota only for non bumis, let's just cut it short and say its PURE RACISM.

[zanyzephyr]

Actually, to me, its not about which one is better: matrik or STPM. I am a matrik student and I once harboured the dream of studying overseas after scoring my SPM with flying colours. In fact, that's what every top student in Malaysia desires: to get an education overseas, preferably in the UK, Australia, US or some glamorous university for reasons best known to themselves. But even if you took STPM, is it a wise choice studying overseas? If I intend to take medicine or law, I would have chosen matriks because after STPM, I know I cant afford to study overseas financially. Not everyone is rich and has a family that can afford to sent their kids overseas. Maybe those who decided to just "hantam" matriculation should think twice before attacking. Have you ever thought that maybe we have different career aspirations than you that would have been impossible to venture overseas such as dentistry and medic without a wealthy family backing us? Have you ever thought that we have younger brothers and sisters for our parents to finance? Don't have a negative impression of matrik just because you have never went through it before. Human nature is like this: when we have made a choice in life, and in your case is STPM, we tend to adapt to it and in the end, support it vehemently and telling everyone on the planet that you have made the right choice. I don't know if that is a way of deluding ourselves but we all behave like that. Believe me, I didnt support matrik and looked down upon it at 1st just like you, but after I have completed my study in KMPP, I beg to differ. I now, just like you, have every reason to think that matrik may not be a bad choice after all. I have a feeling that I have made the right decision in choosing matrik BASED on the social and economic situation I faced at that time. I don't know for sure too if its a way of comforting myself from the harsh reality that I may not have an overseas education. That's human nature. But I have never looked back since and I am looking forward enthusiastically.

Believe me, I know just as much or maybe a little more than you do on the injustices of awarding places in matrik for non-bumis. I strongly disagree of the 10% quota but that doesn't mean I must reject matrik as a form of protest. I have many other things to consider in life such as family, life and financial status. I was depressed at that time as I was just freshly rejected by JPA. I had to make the decision of my life within just 2 days. So, its not a bed or roses as just choosing STPM for the sake of having a second shot of studying overseas.

Continuing from where I left off, for many students out there who wants to take medic, dentistry and pharmacy overseas, the entry requirements are very stringent overseas. Even our neighbour Singapore admits very little, or probably none at all, Malaysian STPM students into their medic, dentistry or pharmacy programme. I understand that most Malaysians who study in NUS and Nanyang are of pure science, business, engineering (few) and other courses only. Singapore reserves critical courses for its own people, whether you like it or not. What about Australia, UK, Canada? Ok, where do we get the money from to study there even if we got a place? Most unis dont offer scholarships and only have conditional offers fo you. That means you have to pay everything yourself: lodging, accomadation, food, tuition fees, clothes, air travel back home and God knows what more. I cant imagine myself spending so much of my parent's money just for the sake of an "overseas education". I cannot live everyday without feeling guilty that maybe I'm forsaking the education of one of my brother's just for the selfish sake of getting an "overseas education".

A scholarship from private companies of JPA for overseas you say? The selection processes are tough as we all know. It is not that I do not have the confidence and the capability of clinching one after my STPM. It's just that THE CONSEQUENCES OF NOT GETTING ONE IS A PRICE TOO STEEP I COULDN"T AFFORD TO PAY. What if I didn't get one? There goes my dream of studying overseas and I instead have to fight for a place in local uni with matrik student. Or even entering a private uni and end up paying quite a hefty sum of money along the way.

What's wrong with a Malaysian local uni education? Don't you wanna experience studying in one for once in your life as a Malaysian? I am aware of the bad image local uni has been portrayed in the news and on the THE-QS rankings (which are highly questionable and dubious anyway, as admitted by a THE official himself in The Star newspaper recently). But it's exciting getting to learn and experience for myself what's in store at local unis. I can have the valuable network of friends which are crucial when we enter the workforce later, a luxury that overseas students cannot get. I can save tonnes of money and lead a happy life knowing that my mum and dad do not have the financial baggage plaguing their lives everyday. I can experience the wonderful city life of KL if I enter UM, UKM or UPM. Ditto for Penang if I study at USM.

So, think twice and consider all aspects before arriving to a conclusion. I'm not here to promote matrik, I just want to tell that we are all different in terms of our dreams, family, financial status, capabilities and so much more. And it's best that we make a choice in life after we have considered everything, not just because some guy on Recom recommends this or that. For all you know, he may be a rich kid and have a different pathway than you. Don't always follow what others tell you, especially in Recom.


Honestly speaking, this is kinda of biased and immature statement. Look, if you don't have the money from your parents to pay for everything overseas or in a place away from home, WORK for it. Stop being a baby and pamper over your parents' shoulders for money and comfort.

Financial status you say? MY school had people from unbelievable family backgrounds all over the place to pursue their dreams and hopes they never give up on. They worked their ass off and paid for their living expenses and academical expenses. Best thing of all, they were all ORPHANS. Ad here you are telling me that you don't have a family to sustain your academic requirements? Please, grow up and search for alternatives. Get scholarships from every possible companies you know, if you are THAT good, you shouldn't have much problem attaining these scholarships. If you don't, screw it! Work and study at the same time to earn your degree. With this, you can actually impress your possible employers by the fact that you multi-tasked THAT well, till the extend that you were able to survive your university years, all by YOURSELVES.


So are you trying to compare your unfortunate with theirs? Come on people, you are 19 or no less than 18 when you pick up for a Pre-University course, even more for an undergraduate course.

Fighting a place with a matrics student.
Every, I mean EVERY teacher I've known and was taught by told me, if you ever had to compare between a matrics student and STPM student. Forget it, the matrics one doesn't even stand a chance, simply because they have known the system and syllabus and what are the capabilities student of each course are going to have to take on their degree years!
Trust me, I have friends from matrics and me myself is still in my upper 6 year. You serious wanna have a comparison between us? I can tell you without fail, my knowledge beats his flat. That is the difference between a 1 1/2 year program and a 1 year program, with all the hardship along those years.

Next, we are now talking about the COMPETENCIES of matrics and STPM, not the hardship you need to go through with each courses to your degree. Please define your topic and point in your context in a crystal clear matter. Competency, revolves around the quality of the scholar produces by each prospective program, be it academically, scholastically, or practically.

Carry on, choosing STPM as an alternative doesn't mean that a student ain't giving the local university a chance. I've recently attended a talk conducted by the chairman of USM , and he'd actually stated that STPM leavers are much prioritized as compared to matrics student, simply because we learn MORE. We devoted ourselves to one and a half years, but matrics students only did one, OR less. Most of us took up STPM because we are giving the local university a shot. But it's just the cruel fact that most local uni ain't giving US the shot. They prefer matrics student over most STPM leavers because of their beloved quota system and distribution of student races in both program. Come on people, we know our facts, and I'm sure that I can spar us from the agony and rantings of the racial quota in the local universities.

By the way, some of us gave up on the local universities because they are not as GOOD as they used to be. The options given by private colleges and unis are much versatile and up to standard. If you look at the university rankings of any local uni of Msia, trust me, they don't even hit top 150. So, is there any point taking on matrics to enter a university which may not provide me enough competency to take on the world's demand. Sorry, I'd rather work hard to pay for a much prestigious university than that.

Back on track. Competencies of matrics Vs STPM:

The reference books themselves tell more than we need to seek in this forum. STPM leavers learn way much wider scope in EVERY aspect of the common subject in matrics, not to forget out beloved Pengajian AM which have drilled us good enough to take on Law in Msia local university, which matrics students DO NOT have since they are only required to take on 3 subjects. Plus point, STPM leavers are way more matured than matrics student, simply because we need to be independent in seeking knowledge for the 1 and a half years.

Thats just 2 cents of what I think of the competencies between both programs and good day~

[Miracle_seed]

The reference books themselves tell more than we need to seek in this forum. STPM leavers learn way much wider scope in EVERY aspect of the common subject in matrics, not to forget out beloved Pengajian AM which have drilled us good enough to take on Law in Msia local university, which matrics students DO NOT have since they are only required to take on 3 subjects. Plus point, STPM leavers are way more matured than matrics student, simply because we need to be independent in seeking knowledge for the 1 and a half years. If you would like to determine the competency of a student based solely on the syllabus or scope of the subject taken in the programme, feel free to spend some time and take a look at A-Level syllabus, if you don't already know. (I mean UK-based Cambridge and Edexel board offered by most private colleges in Malaysia, not Singapore A-Level) Perhaps you would be surprised how widely A-Level is internationally recognised despite the depth of its syllabus.

[kaiyi]

If you would like to determine the competency of a student based solely on the syllabus or scope of the subject taken in the programme, feel free to spend some time and take a look at A-Level syllabus, if you don't already know. (I mean UK-based Cambridge and Edexel board offered by most private colleges in Malaysia, not Singapore A-Level) Perhaps you would be surprised how widely A-Level is internationally recognised despite the depth of its syllabus.

I was told that STPM is like you have to study from A to Z while A-level syllabus only covers those you need to know for your degree. I have never in touch with A-level before, can you kindly explain your statement?

[Miracle_seed]

I was told that STPM is like you have to study from A to Z while A-level syllabus only covers those you need to know for your degree. I have never in touch with A-level before, can you kindly explain your statement?Basically in many topics, A-Level doesn't require you to memorize all the details in depth, and quite some time it gives a general concept only. For example, STPM and matriculation students have to study the glycolysis pathway and TCA cycle in details, including the substrate and enzymes, while in A-Level syllabus, you need to know only the key steps and the remains are just being mentioned as "intermediates". Pure Maths 1 paper is even easier, I think SPM Additional Maths is even more difficult.

Sometimes I think STPM syllabus is very much in depth till the point that they overlap with quite some portion of first year subjects in university. This is one of the reasons there are sayings that STPM students fare better in first year of universities, and eventually if they do not work hard, the "store" is going to be used up and everybody is the same. Of course, this rarely happens because most students who can score well in STPM are hardworking and academically excellent students, while for matriculation, there would be a wide variation because of the low cutoff point.

[Young]

Every, I mean EVERY teacher I've known and was taught by told me, if you ever had to compare between a matrics student and STPM student. Forget it, the matrics one doesn't even stand a chance, simply because they have known the system and syllabus and what are the capabilities student of each course are going to have to take on their degree years!

Trust me, I have friends from matrics and me myself is still in my upper 6 year. You serious wanna have a comparison between us? I can tell you without fail, my knowledge beats his flat. That is the difference between a 1 1/2 year program and a 1 year program, with all the hardship along those years.

Since when did knowledge = intelligence? An intelligent person who takes on matriculation will undoubtedly achieve the same level of academic success he would have experienced if he took STPM instead. To produce a sweeping statement like 'the matrics one doesn't even stand a chance' is uncalled for.

Trust me on this point; I took a short Pre-University course that's usually perceived to be shallow in terms of content and am now studying a course that's deemed to be very knowledge-intensive, competing with my peers who took more rigorous Pre-University programmes like IB, STPM and A-levels.

Guess what? I score better than them in university. And if you're wondering, most of the students in my course scored top marks for their respective Pre-University programmes so it's not like I'm comparing things on an uneven ground.

The point I'm trying to make is that while there are obvious advantages and disadvantages of different Pre-University programmes, it is unfair to generalize 'students from X program are better than Y students.' You'd be surprised how irrelevant 85% of Pre-University knowledge is when you actually set foot in university.

I am not denying that STPM is more rigorous than matriculation; there's no question in that. Rather, I am just challenging the notion that matriculation students are undeserving in comparison.
They aren't.

Competency, revolves around the quality of the scholar produces by each prospective program, be it academically, scholastically, or practically. Wrong. A Pre-University programme does not MAKE a good student. You do not see a poor student magically transform into a straight-A student upon taking ABC programme. What a student can achieve is inherently predetermined by the student him/herself, regardless of the programme.

Competency revolves around adequately preparing a student for university life. Taking only this into consideration, one can safely say that both matriculation and STPM students are able to survive comfortably in the academic world. The syllabus in matriculation is more than sufficient to provide a solid foundation for the transition into university.

Rather, it is the inequity drawn from these two programmes in parallel that spark controversy, not one programme by itself.

Plus point, STPM leavers are way more matured than matrics student, simply because we need to be independent in seeking knowledge for the 1 and a half years. I'm not trying to put down STPM but I do not see how being spoon-fed by school teachers for 1.5 years and then regurgitating everything out during a single exam fosters maturity. If you ask me, the only TRULY holistic programme is IB.

[zanyzephyr]

Since when did knowledge = intelligence? An intelligent person who takes on matriculation will undoubtedly achieve the same level of academic success he would have experienced if he took STPM instead. To produce a sweeping statement like 'the matrics one doesn't even stand a chance' is uncalled for.

Trust me on this point; I took a short Pre-University course that's usually perceived to be shallow in terms of content and am now studying a course that's deemed to be very knowledge-intensive, competing with my peers who took more rigorous Pre-University programmes like IB, STPM and A-levels.

Guess what? I score better than them in university. And if you're wondering, most of the students in my course scored top marks for their respective Pre-University programmes so it's not like I'm comparing things on an uneven ground.

The point I'm trying to make is that while there are obvious advantages and disadvantages of different Pre-University programmes, it is unfair to generalize 'students from X program are better than Y students.' You'd be surprised how irrelevant 85% of Pre-University knowledge is when you actually set foot in university.

I am not denying that STPM is more rigorous than matriculation; there's no question in that. Rather, I am just challenging the notion that matriculation students are undeserving in comparison.
They aren't.

Wrong. A Pre-University programme does not MAKE a good student. You do not see a poor student magically transform into a straight-A student upon taking ABC programme. What a student can achieve is inherently predetermined by the student him/herself, regardless of the programme.

Competency revolves around adequately preparing a student for university life. Taking only this into consideration, one can safely say that both matriculation and STPM students are able to survive comfortably in the academic world. The syllabus in matriculation is more than sufficient to provide a solid foundation for the transition into university.

Rather, it is the inequity drawn from these two programmes in parallel that spark controversy, not one programme by itself.

I'm not trying to put down STPM but I do not see how being spoon-fed by school teachers for 1.5 years and then regurgitating everything out during a single exam fosters maturity. If you ask me, the only TRULY holistic programme is IB.

Yes, IB IS the turly holistic program around. But once again, I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself,

we are discussing on:

THE COMPETENCIES OF MATRICS VS STPM

please , like I said, understand the statement! You can't just pull in other programs into this poll to make comparisons as how you did above. I would have taken IB if I had the chance but I didn't have the chance, so I resolved to STPM. And why STPM over matrics, because STPM offers much wider and tougher scopes enough for the students to tackle their university years. So please, mind your THESIS STATEMENT. You will eventually need this soft skill to deal with your assignments.

And spoon-feeding by teachers? Are you kidding me? Have even been into the Form 6 curriculum before? The students don't get eveyrthing for the teachers. The teacher dump everything on you, and they expect you to know the rest by YOURSELF. So, is what you call spoon-feeding? Again,
mind your thesis and constant sweeping statements.

I have no idea what pre-u program you have enrolled, nor am I interested in it for our current discussion. We are focusing on the matter of competencies of matrics, and STPM.

If you would like to determine the competency of a student based solely on the syllabus or scope of the subject taken in the programme, feel free to spend some time and take a look at A-Level syllabus, if you don't already know. (I mean UK-based Cambridge and Edexel board offered by most private colleges in Malaysia, not Singapore A-Level) Perhaps you would be surprised how widely A-Level is internationally recognised despite the depth of its syllabus.

I am an upper 6 student and guess what? I'm using all the A-levels studying materials in my studies, including notes, practical and exercises. Yes I am well aware of the CAL syllabus, and honestly, we study way more and deeper than they do. Even the CAL lecturers said STPM students cover wider scopes than CAL students do. So yes, I'm sure competency in the scope of subjects taken in the program, STPM surpasses MATRICS. And please, STOP BRINGING PROGRAMS OTHER THAN MATRICS AND STPM INTO THIS DISCUSSION AGAIN. Look at the poll title people!!!!

[Young]

Yes, IB IS the turly holistic program around. But once again, I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself,

we are discussing on:

THE COMPETENCIES OF MATRICS VS STPM

please , like I said, understand the statement! You can't just pull in other programs into this poll to make comparisons as how you did above. I would have taken IB if I had the chance but I didn't have the chance, so I resolved to STPM. And why STPM over matrics, because STPM offers much wider and tougher scopes enough for the students to tackle their university years. So please, mind your THESIS STATEMENT. You will eventually need this soft skill to deal with your assignments.

And spoon-feeding by teachers? Are you kidding me? Have even been into the Form 6 curriculum before? The students don't get eveyrthing for the teachers. The teacher dump everything on you, and they expect you to know the rest by YOURSELF. So, is what you call spoon-feeding? Again,
mind your thesis and constant sweeping statements.

I have no idea what pre-u program you have enrolled, nor am I interested in it for our current discussion. We are focusing on the matter of competencies of matrics, and STPM.




First and foremost, you seem to be very obsessed with your definition of 'thesis statement' and your insistence that no other Pre-University programme should be brought into this discussion. Therefore, I shall try and make things very plain and clear:

Thesis statement: A statement delcaring one's beliefs and opinion about a particular topic. A good thesis statement should arguable and definitive in nature.

Clearly, the title of this thread 'The Competencies of Matrik vs STPM' is far from an ideal 'thesis statement', as you put it. Therefore, every subsequent post in this thread is pretty much an independent but related discussion on it's own; a contention of their personal but differing views on the issue.

In short, there is NO thesis statement. Anything that holds weight in this discussion is valid.

Extending from that, my stand on this issue is that neither STPM or matriculation are 'bad' programmes on their own. Rather, it is the parallel existence of two very different programmes in a single system that raises controversy.

That being said, the inclusion of my personal experience is very much relevant to this discussion. It draws similarities in the sense that my Pre-University programme (AusMat) is a representation of Matriculation; a more shallow and less in-depth programme compared to rigorous courses like STPM and A-levels. It just goes to show that it is not the programme that makes a student 'better' or 'worse', but the student's innate abilities that determines his subsequent achievements following completion of the programme. Therefore, it is unjustified to say that STPM students are more deserving than matriculation students.

Also, I brought in IB as a neutral comparison between STPM and matriculation. What you experienced in STPM is not exclusive; matriculation students put in additional effort to complete assignments, frequent tests and other requirements not present in STPM. Therefore, the notion that STPM students are more 'mature' is invalid.

The fact that you agreed with my statement of IB being the only truly holistic programme means that no comparison of maturity is warranted for students of any other courses.

[zanyzephyr]

look, even the 1st poll started off with the Malaysian Matriculation system Vs STPM, and their respective students' count in the University of Malaya. So if you ever bring Ausmat or A levels into this matter of discussion, wouldn't that swayed away from what we are trying to discuss initially? You seemed to be very eager to bring in experiences way far from what the Malaysian education system is capable to give, and strictly speaking, Ausmat is a far much better pre-university as compared to Malaysian Matriculation. Plus, there is a inequality in the dispersion of students from each program in our local universities. And that, is what we are really trying to discuss around here. Bringing in foreign qualifications such as Ausmat, SAM, A levels or even UEC is just way off the hook.

Not that I'm trying to disband the other programs, but if you really want to compare all pre-u programs available in Malaysia, there is another poll discussing about it.

Now, like I've been repeating, we are discussing on Matriculation Vs STPM, in which both are recognized in LOCAL UNIVERSITIES. Bringing in any other programs only increases the rate of controversy like you have stated. You might think that I'm stubborn and all, but seriously, look back into the 1st page , understand what we are REALLY trying to discuss here. We need not any other fantastically managed pre-u programs to promote the confusion we have already managed to incur so far.

[markwongsk]

look, even the 1st poll started off with the Malaysian Matriculation system Vs STPM, and their respective students' count in the University of Malaya. So if you ever bring Ausmat or A levels into this matter of discussion, wouldn't that swayed away from what we are trying to discuss initially? You seemed to be very eager to bring in experiences way far from what the Malaysian education system is capable to give, and strictly speaking, Ausmat is a far much better pre-university as compared to Malaysian Matriculation. Plus, there is a inequality in the dispersion of students from each program in our local universities. And that, is what we are really trying to discuss around here. Bringing in foreign qualifications such as Ausmat, SAM, A levels or even UEC is just way off the hook.

Not that I'm trying to disband the other programs, but if you really want to compare all pre-u programs available in Malaysia, there is another poll discussing about it.

Now, like I've been repeating, we are discussing on Matriculation Vs STPM, in which both are recognized in LOCAL UNIVERSITIES. Bringing in any other programs only increases the rate of controversy like you have stated. You might think that I'm stubborn and all, but seriously, look back into the 1st page , understand what we are REALLY trying to discuss here. We need not any other fantastically managed pre-u programs to promote the confusion we have already managed to incur so far.

While I appreciate you being adamant in upholding the integrity of this thread's topic, I do have some reservations about the way you elucidate your opinions, and more so the manner in which you disregard others'.

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And now, Young, allow me to seek clarification on your stand, namely Extending from that, my stand on this issue is that neither STPM or matriculation are 'bad' programmes on their own. Rather, it is the parallel existence of two very different programmes in a single system that raises controversy.

The controversy has to be investigated, and this may shed light on why I am arguing for the competency of STPM (as a programme, not the students).

Firstly, why was matrix introduced if not to be an easier route to enter local uni? If it was considered a more 'holistic' approach or a better education system, why not abolish STPM altogether and change everything into matrix? If it was impractical to do it in a single shot, why not work towards this solution? If it was NOT considered a better approach, why introduce it in the first place?

Secondly, the quota for matriculation admission and the results of matrix vs STPM students' uni admission is another reason for suspicion.

But my main argument for STPM's competency lies in the fact that other universities recognize this qualification. You can apply to UK, Australia, Singapore using an STPM qualification but not many universities recognize Matriculation. I even got to transfer my credits (two semester's worth of chemistry, physics, biology and math) from STPM into a US university, that just goes to show how competent it is. But if we're debating on the competencies of matrix vs STPM in terms of local uni admission that's probably going to favour matrix, though I can't possibly justify the claim other than with statistical data.

As for this:
I'm not trying to put down STPM but I do not see how being spoon-fed by school teachers for 1.5 years and then regurgitating everything out during a single exam fosters maturity. If you ask me, the only TRULY holistic programme is IB.

It's countered by this:
It just goes to show that it is not the programme that makes a student 'better' or 'worse', but the student's innate abilities that determines his subsequent achievements following completion of the programme.

With that, I would like to restate my case as:

1. The support for the competency of STPM vs Matrix can be seen on the international scale (and therefore more likely to be less biased).
2. For the admission of local universities, the competency of Matrix as an admission program is better favoured as evidenced by statistics. But the subsequent quality of the students are highly controversial, though there are those who live up to the reputation of the elusive 4.0, disappointments are frequent and hence this debate.
3. This competency is in terms of a program, and not in terms of the students enrolled in the program. To evaluate that dimension requires different parameters out of the context of this debate.

[Miracle_seed]

Bringing in other pre-U courses into the discussion, is just as a base for the argument that depth and scope of the syllabus is not the sole criterion to judge the competency of students of particular programme, it is just as simple as this.

[supergoh]

STPM definitely produces more competent students than matric.

First of all, we need to know why there are two exams for admission to local universities although our government is always trying to push for national integration.For example, the government often encourages students of all races to enter national schools to cultivate national unity.Obviously,two exams go against the purpose of promoting national integration.

The reason is simple and actually unfortunate.This country is adopting race-based policy.Matric exists to make things easier for certain race to enter local universities.Hence, in the past,matric only accepted students of certain race.

STPM students ,especially science students are dominated by certain race.Just like it is difficult for STPM students to score and enter local universities, it is also difficult for certain race to get scholarship ,government contracts ,promotion in government sector and so on.

However,this unfair policy only makes certain race stronger and more determined.Just like entrepreneurs of certain race can expand business to overseas countries, STPM students can further studies in overseas countries since STPM is well-recognized internationally.

Therefore ,Sijil Tinggi Pelajaran Malaysia is definitely more tinggi tahapnya than matric.