Given a choice, would you work in Malaysia?

[eve88]

Well, a lot of Malaysian students going overseas choose not to return to Malaysia, and stay overseas for years after getting their degrees. On the other hand, quite a few return, too - and these are not necessarily bonded scholarship students.

Given a choice, which country would you go to to work, and why?

[zane]

Depends. I think patriotism plays a part here. If you see patriotism as an integral part, or maybe u prefer to stay with your family, Malaysia is for you. Personally I think working overseas is much more lucrative and the environment will be more condusive. For example, the gap between the technology of Malaysia and others such as Japan.

Ok, to me, I think career is not the sole part of life. So, I think I will go around the world to see the world. So , overseas. Hope my big dream comes true...lol

[nemosmknimh]

yes it would be great to work overseas but the first year could be hell
hehehehe
unless you already adapt living there and already secure a job

but for me
if we didnt come back to m'sia,who would be the 1 to rule m'sia,to build up our economy???
tell me???
we are saying that we dont want the mediocre to rule our country but whou would if everyone is working oversea??
and plus,though we are not bonded to serve for our country,how much have our country paid for our primary and secondary education
though we cant really feel that we are using goverment money but we did....
at least come back here and serve..........
we are the one who's going to make a difference to our country..
just my two cents.........

P/S:this is only my thoughts and if you really love overseas,you can either go holiday there or works in international companies......or at least serve in m'sia for a few years..

ok im talking crap

[eve88]

It may actually be easier in certain fields to secure jobs overseas - especially if you've uni-ed and graduated from that country - but I digress.

I suppose my personal opinion is : I find it very very hard to give a damn about what's happening in Malaysia. My family is scattered around the world, my friends more so.

I dare say that the taxes my parents have paid more than enough covered my primary and secondary schooling - and no offense, but the standards aren't that high - and the "rot" of SK was already starting when I was there - from what I heard the "good schools" are being gutted even more...

Its not that I really love overseas - its that Malaysia doesn't seem to welcome us anymore.

[youngyew]

I think family and friends play a much larger role than patriotism in the case of people who do go back.

[senksiang90]

Why I want to work in Malaysia:
(1) My family is settled here.
(2) I prefer Malaysia girls compared to OVS girls :p
(3) Pay is high and opportunity is everywhere.
(4) Malaysia is a peaceful country.

Why I won't work in Malaysia:
(1) I have a far higher pay OVS.
(2) I have lost my love towards everything in Malaysia.
(3) Malaysia is at war with other countries.
(4) I don't like Malaysia food.

[Young]

Given a choice, I won't. At this moment, Malaysia's political scenario is embarassing and the country is in a mess. If nothing changes soon, I fear that there may be nothing left of Malaysia by the time I graduate.

[nickvl]

Why I want to work in Malaysia:
(1) My family is settled here.
(2) I prefer Malaysia girls compared to OVS girls :p
(3) Pay is high and opportunity is everywhere.
(4) Malaysia is a peaceful country.

Why I won't work in Malaysia:
(1) I have a far higher pay OVS.
(2) I have lost my love towards everything in Malaysia.
(3) Malaysia is at war with other countries.
(4) I don't like Malaysia food.

you sound contradictory....

i believe given chance many would like to contribute back to m'sia but they do not due to reasons like political scene etc.

still, working ovs may not be as glamourous as it sounds. yes the pay's good but this is a case of grass greener on the other side...at the end of the day, many ppl i know who work ovs still make malaysia their home...

[senksiang90]

you sound contradictory....


Depends on the situation next time really...

And one thing, if I were to work oversea, its not for the glamour.. its to run away from problems-which seems cowardly but what the heck. LOL-

[luminodreamer89]

Well, I would say that it's the underlying racial factor and the misused Social Contract in the working context.

But, for me, If I were given a choice, I will try to work abroad. At least for a few years, before I return back to my home in Malaysia.

It's always noble to say to come back to help. But, without capitals, how are we going to help? If we mentioned about contributing our talents and things we have learnt in overseas to the society, but nobody cares or suppresses u in certain ways. What would u think?

Patriotism can be defined in a broad sense. =)

[Glassylicious]

I think the "perk" about getting "higher pay overseas" is overrated. That only works if you're planning to spend your GBPs or USDs back in Malaysia. Otherwise, if you reside in the UK or US, you'll need to pay monstrous amounts of taxes, AND cope with the high cost of living.

[angel_tnp29]

I don't mind to work in Malaysia as the pay for me is high. Well, I want to work with different environment so I hope I can have a job which based in Malaysia but required me to travel a lot.

[Keiko123]

At the first place, I'll work in Malaysia, of course! Because all my family, relatives and friends are here. Malaysia is my homeland, tanah tumpah darahku as well! :laugh

However, if I were given any opportunity, maybe can consider to work overseas, but then there is the time for me to leave my homeland, my family, my everything. T.T Not nice at all okay, though the pay is high and tempting.

In short, I will prefer to work in my homeland. :))

[kid]

if i have d chances for a good life over c,, witout thinking twice, i would definitely grab dat chances.. especially in country colder than m'sia, hahaha., bcos most malaysians make me lost my patriotism soul., hahahaha

[Athersin]

To Malaysians working or studying abroad, please share with us the impact of the following factors that may influence your decision to come back or not to come back to work or stay in Malaysia:
1. salary
2. career path
3. training opportunities
4. promotion opportunities
5. professional support
6. lifestyle
7. family tie
8. food
9. status of the Malaysian society
10. NEP
11. housing
12. transport
13. recreation
14. your next generation's education burden and needs
15. perception of Malaysia's future in the region and the world
16. perception of your standing in Malaysia (e.g., second class citizen, discriminated by current practices in the country, etc.)

[mehul91]

if given option, i think overseas would be better and the country depends on what sector you are working in. if you are career oriented and want to make it big, then overseas is your choice. most of the multinational company have their headquarters overseas.working there would boost your chances of climbing the corporate ladder. if you are more family oriented then malaysia will be a good place because work is not that stressful*. the education is decent and the tax is low. its a good place to retire and enjoy watever saving you have had because the cost of living is quite cheap. and in terms of morality , malaysia is not as bad as the usa or eu. so it comes down to a person needs.


*not all job sectors

[Young]

To Malaysians working or studying abroad, please share with us the impact of the following factors that may influence your decision to come back or not to come back to work or stay in Malaysia:
1. salary
2. career path
3. training opportunities
4. promotion opportunities
5. professional support
6. lifestyle
7. family tie
8. food
9. status of the Malaysian society
10. NEP
11. housing
12. transport
13. recreation
14. your next generation's education burden and needs
15. perception of Malaysia's future in the region and the world
16. perception of your standing in Malaysia (e.g., second class citizen, discriminated by current practices in the country, etc.)

Hmm.. I'll be in Australia for at least another 6 years so I'll give this a shot. :amuse

1. Salary
I guess this is an important factor. I'm not interested in a sky-high salary, just one which is reflective of my sacrifices, educational background and work ethic. As a fresh doctor, the salary in Malaysia is pretty mediocre so I'll think about it.

2. Career Path
No comment.

3. Training Opportunities
This irks me a bit. Entry into medical specialty training in Malaysia is biased towards Bumiputeras so it's definitely a deterrent.

4. Promotion Opportunities
Pretty crap in the public sector but decent in the private sector.

5. Professional Support
Not good. There is a lack of support and fresh grads are expected to fend for themselves. It's not exactly a bad thing since it helps to encourage good working habits but some degree of support is still required.

6. Lifestyle
By far the biggest factor. Medical practitioners in Malaysia are grossly overworked, especially in their initial years. This, coupled with low compensation is probably influential factor in deciding if I return home or stay put.

7. Family Tie
If I ever decide to return, it would be because of this. My comfort zone is in Malaysia and it's always a plus to have friends and family around.

8. Food
Oh yes, another major plus. :P I'd definitely be lured back by the food.

9. Status of Malaysian society
I guess doctors are accepted everywhere so it doesn't really matter.

10. NEP
Major no no. NEP is probably one of the biggest factors which drive many talented individuals away from Malaysia. Where there is opportunity, there is talent. NEP pretty much censors opportunity in every aspect.

11. Housing
No comment.

12. Transport
No comment, athough better public transport would be desirable.

13. Recreation
No comment.

14. Next Generation's Needs.
Major turnoff here too, especially in education. Malaysian universities look at skin before ability and that's never welcomed. Plus, local universities aren't exactly the best places to study.

15. Perception Of Malaysia In The Future.
Admittedly, at this rate Malaysia would be a global laughing stock but I don't think it's that big a deal if the country is run properly.

16. Perception Of Your Standing In Malaysia.
As long as the discrimination and racism doesn't get too extreme, I don't really care about perception.

[Glassylicious]

My comments are in bold. I will be speaking from the perspective of working in a law firm overseas and in Malaysia. This is a hopefully unbiased account of any "pros and cons" I can think of.

To Malaysians working or studying abroad, please share with us the impact of the following factors that may influence your decision to come back or not to come back to work or stay in Malaysia:
1. salary
I will no doubt get higher pay [several times higher] if I were to work in the UK as opposed to Malaysia and it's true that Malaysian lawyers in general are underpaid [starting salary is a disappointment compared to what you can get in a London firm] BUT it's still a bit higher compared to a lot of entry-level jobs. Also, there are high taxes to pay in the UK.
2. career path

3. training opportunities
I don't think I will have problems getting training opportunities in Malaysia; all I have to do to get an internship is to just ask, but getting a similar internship in the UK will be really tough since I'm a foreigner and the firms tend to assume that I'll be going back to my home country at the end of my course. There is tight competition in getting internships in the London law firms.
4. promotion opportunities
I'm not sure if working in the UK will let me progress through the career ladder faster than working in Malaysia. Either way, the lawyers in UK and Malaysia work differently; there's a separate system altogether so that perhaps might be a case of comparing apples and oranges.
5. professional support
Er I'm not sure how that's supposed to be a factor. Clarify maybe? =)
6. lifestyle
I like the lifestyle of a metropolitan city and while London is fantastically awesome in that respect, KL isn't quite that shabby either [well, depending on which parts of KL-lah].
7. family tie
Yeah, there's the whole "family back in Malaysia" issue.
8. food
This is a toughie. Malaysian food is awesome, but there are now places in London that offer really authentic Malaysian food [personally tried and tested!] so it probably isn't too much of a loss. Given the fact that I will be earning high wages assuming that I am working in London, a meal in a Malaysian restaurant wouldn't be that costly should I ever get any nasi lemak cravings. On the other hand, back in Malaysia, the relatively weaker purchasing power of the RM would mean that I would be in trouble when I start getting salmon withdrawal syndromes. I also really love English/western food, so in this case both sides even out.
9. status of the Malaysian society
Not sure what you mean by this?
10. NEP
I'm not sure if this is very relevant in my field, but on a side note I chatted with some of the senior associates of a majority-Malay law firm [Malays who speak fluent English], and they are some of the most committed, brilliant and professional people I have ever met. The level at where I'll be working will probably see only the cream of the crop in the job since meritocracy prevails, so I probably won't have any problems with "racial unfairness".
11. housing
It'd probably take me a lot longer to save up for my dream apartment [think Pavilion Residences ;)] with a Malaysian salary, as opposed to getting a good place in a swanky location in London while working in a "magic circle" firm in London.
12. transport
It'd be pretty mean of me to compare the London underground tube with our KTM, but maybe in several years time we'd have better public transport? =( And yeah, I would be relying on public transport a fair bit since getting a car at such an early stage wouldn't be wise.
13. recreation
I can have all the recreation I want in both countries/cities.
14. your next generation's education burden and needs
Good point there. Tertiary education I'll definitely send them abroad, but otherwise they'll benefit just as well with a local education IMO. Not sure about what I'd do if I was in London.
15. perception of Malaysia's future in the region and the world
Eh, we do have some promising fields we are going into [Islamic banking is a very good example]. If you work in an MNC you might get the chance to transfer to their international offices. =) Who knows?
16. perception of your standing in Malaysia (e.g., second class citizen, discriminated by current practices in the country, etc.)
Frankly speaking, in the corporate/business world where the people you work with frequently take home a five-figure salary every month, everyone's too busy getting their work done, meeting clients, scoring contracts and making even more big bucks to notice your race. And like I said, when you're working at such a top level, meritocracy actually prevails since it's a dog-eat-dog world without "protective policies", so to speak.

[Young]

if given option, i think overseas would be better and the country depends on what sector you are working in. if you are career oriented and want to make it big, then overseas is your choice. most of the multinational company have their headquarters overseas.working there would boost your chances of climbing the corporate ladder. if you are more family oriented then malaysia will be a good place because work is not that stressful*. the education is decent and the tax is low. its a good place to retire and enjoy watever saving you have had because the cost of living is quite cheap. and in terms of morality , malaysia is not as bad as the usa or eu. so it comes down to a person needs.


*not all job sectors

Work is not that stressful in Malaysia? I hope you're joking because every working adult I know in Malaysia says they work so much that they don't have much of a life left. Here in Australia, everyone's so bloody slack. There's no hurry, no stress, no pressure, nothing. It's seriously the land of milk and honey.

The cost of living is rising rapidly. Inflation is higher than before, commodities are pricey, cars cost more than houses and don't even let me get started with the petrol.

What do you mean by morality? Are you referring to how the media portrays Western countries? Sex, guns and drugs? I assure you, people in Australia, US or Europe aren't all like that. They're friendly, nice and pleasant. Sure, they're more open and people here get drunk more often and sure, maybe they start sex a bit earlier but that does not mean they have don't have a moral compass. Look at Malaysia: crime is rampant; people get raped, handbags get snatched and Mat Rempits rule the streets. Don't even get me started on corruption. Dear Lord. If you say Malaysians are conservative, that's just the superficial side of it. Prostitution, while illegal is rampant and you'll see drunkards on the streets just like you will see them in Western countries. The statement that Western countries 'have no moral bearings' is just propaganda by our government. We're as bad, if not worse when it comes to morality.

[mehul91]

Work is not that stressful in Malaysia? I hope you're joking because every working adult I know in Malaysia says they work so much that they don't have much of a life left. Here in Australia, everyone's so bloody slack. There's no hurry, no stress, no pressure, nothing. It's seriously the land of milk and honey.

The cost of living is rising rapidly. Inflation is higher than before, commodities are pricey, cars cost more than houses and don't even let me get started with the petrol.

What do you mean by morality? Are you referring to how the media portrays Western countries? Sex, guns and drugs? I assure you, people in Australia, US or Europe aren't all like that. They're friendly, nice and pleasant. Sure, they're more open and people here get drunk more often and sure, maybe they start sex a bit earlier but that does not mean they have don't have a moral compass. Look at Malaysia: crime is rampant; people get raped, handbags get snatched and Mat Rempits rule the streets. Don't even get me started on corruption. Dear Lord. If you say Malaysians are conservative, that's just the superficial side of it. Prostitution, while illegal is rampant and you'll see drunkards on the streets just like you will see them in Western countries. The statement that Western countries 'have no moral bearings' is just propaganda by our government. We're as bad, if not worse when it comes to morality.

first of all, stress depends on people. some can cope more, some less.

tell me a place where you can eat lunch and dinner in RM 5. can you eat lunch and dinner in USD 5.of course not.and no doubt inflation is rising, but tell me where it isnt rising. everywhere is the same. you may argue our currency is weak, but in other country basic commodities is way expensive. petrol price in USA is higher than us.

and morality, is not what you only see outside. in uk and usa, teen pregnancy is on the rise. did you read in thesun, a 12 year old kid, if i'm not mistaken is a FATHER!!!!!!!!! and he says i'll tc of my son well. is this a joke. cant even tc of himself. but i have to agree with you on the point that morality in malaysia is not very good oso.

thats why i still prefer overseas. but hey one thing about malaysia, you know for sure that a bomb will not blast here or an airplane wont crash the klcc....cheers

[Glassylicious]

first of all, stress depends on people. some can cope more, some less.


I don't think the key issue here is "coping with stress". I think what Young was trying to say is that there's a lot of work to do.

My dad is self-employed but works late into the night at times. He even works during weekends and public holidays sometimes. Some lawyers I know once pulled a "doctor" and did a 24 hour shift while working with American clients [timezone issues, see]. It's not rare for people working in the corporate world to only go back at 3AM, etc.

Sure, there'll be the people who turn up exactly at 9AM and leave at 5PM sharp. But if you really want the cash [especially in the corporate sector], you work more. And that's what many people do in Malaysia.

[Young]

first of all, stress depends on people. some can cope more, some less.

tell me a place where you can eat lunch and dinner in RM 5. can you eat lunch and dinner in USD 5.of course not.and no doubt inflation is rising, but tell me where it isnt rising. everywhere is the same. you may argue our currency is weak, but in other country basic commodities is way expensive. petrol price in USA is higher than us.

and morality, is not what you only see outside. in uk and usa, teen pregnancy is on the rise. did you read in thesun, a 12 year old kid, if i'm not mistaken is a FATHER!!!!!!!!! and he says i'll tc of my son well. is this a joke. cant even tc of himself. but i have to agree with you on the point that morality in malaysia is not very good oso.

thats why i still prefer overseas. but hey one thing about malaysia, you know for sure that a bomb will not blast here or an airplane wont crash the klcc....cheers

About stress, you're not stating your argument. You're merely sidetracking it. The fact is, life in Malaysia is generally more stressful compared to life elsewhere. In Australia, every single shop closes around 5-8pm. Why? Because they can afford to close early. If a shop closes at the same time in Malaysia, that shop would go bankrupt.

Actually, the price of petrol in the USA is substantially cheaper compared to Malaysia. It costs only $0.61 per litre of petrol in the USA. And don't you tell me "Oh, after converting it's more expensive" because salaries in the US are higher. You do not compare prices between countries by converting currencies. You compare prices with the country's respective mean salaries. :wink

[mehul91]

About stress, you're not stating your argument. You're merely sidetracking it. The fact is, life in Malaysia is generally more stressful compared to life elsewhere. In Australia, every single shop closes around 5-8pm. Why? Because they can afford to close early. If a shop closes at the same time in Malaysia, that shop would go bankrupt.

Actually, the price of petrol in the USA is substantially cheaper compared to Malaysia. It costs only $0.61 per litre of petrol in the USA. And don't you tell me "Oh, after converting it's more expensive" because salaries in the US are higher. You do not compare prices between countries by converting currencies. You compare prices with the country's respective mean salaries. :wink


Haiz, we are not comparing australia and malaysia. We are comparing all the countries in the world with malaysia. Our workload is not that stressful as Japanese, and Chinese. Even american work longer than us. Go check the economist, there was article dated long time ago (cant remember when) but it clearly shows that china, japan, singapore are the ones who work most in one week. And its simple, if you are stress then dun work. There is no such thing as easy money. The only reason msian feel so stressful is because they are not precondition to it unlike singaporean and japanese. But yeah i'm not talking bout all msian, some are good at handling it. other are not.

And about petrol, price of crude oil is fixed globally so you have to convert the currency. its appox the same. and yeah y nothing mention about taxes. there is not only one factor that affects cost of living. there are others too. go read making globalization work by joseph stiglitz. you will able to understand better. the playing feel is not level and you cant make direct comparison. There are pro and cons, i dun deny.....but watever it is..we must embrace it, its not a perfect world.....

[youngyew]

As Young has already put it clearly, it's pointless to compare the price of the petrol in itself without considering the purchasing power of the particular country. If Mongolia is selling petrol at half the price of Malaysia after conversion but the citizens only earn one tenth of our income, would you think they would throw a party to celebrate the fact that their petrol price is half ours?

Your point about taxation is valid, though one could make the case that even after tax the income is generally more comfortable in developed countries.

[mehul91]

As Young has already put it clearly, it's pointless to compare the price of the petrol in itself without considering the purchasing power of the particular country. If Mongolia is selling petrol at half the price of Malaysia after conversion but the citizens only earn one tenth of our income, would you think they would throw a party to celebrate the fact that their petrol price is half ours?

Your point about taxation is valid, though one could make the case that even after tax the income is generally more comfortable in developed countries.

true, you are right regarding the petrol but look from this point of view. After adding living expenses such as food, water, electricity, transportation, mortgage and etc, it comes up to the same thing. as you said their purchasing power is higher,but so is their living expenses. and things are not expensive in msia but with the tax and duty imposed, the price soars. and guys we always thing the grass is greener on the other side....and guys let talk about health care also. foreigner would actually like to come to places like msia and singapore because our health care is cheaper. in msia you can survive without insurance, but try doin that in usa or eu. you will go broke each time u make a trip to visit the doctor.

and one more thing, we are always comparing ourself with the advanced industrial country and the develop country. okay it makes sense because we want to compete with them. but at the same time i thing we must appreciate that despite, all the corruption and mat rempit, and social + political cases that are there, we live in peace without actually have to worry bout terrosit attack, suicide bombers and etc. and you will even appreciate even more if you actually go to countries like bangladesh and indonesia and zimbadwe. these ppl dun even have basic neccesity.

ps: am not sure why i am supporting msia http://www.recom.org/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif http://www.recom.org/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[digimushu]

Hrmmmm....Interesting Topic,

Let me impart some of my experience here from the US, since I have studied here and working here for some time. Before I start, let me provide a little background on myself, so that you can see what I am weighing my options based on. I have a Ph.D in engineering, in my late 20s and is very actively involved with the academic research community here although I am currently working in the industry. My area is vehicle dynamics, specializing in braking systems and stability for cars and heavy trucks.

When i was weighing my options to come back, the only "safe" option I have is to be a lecturer in a local Uni, under the payroll of MOHE, with an assumed salary of about RM 80000/year. Taking into account the cost of living in Malaysia, and the high cost lost living in the particular area, after subtracting the cost of buying perodua and house payments, i deduced that my salary would be inadequate, unless my wife is working as well, and making a least RM 50000/year. The good news is that my salary does not include transportation allowances and other related allowances. However, in my area, there is not a lot of research done in Malaysia (lets face it, our automotive industry does not do research. Lotus does not count, they do not hire Malaysians in their research and development).

In the US, assuming I make the same amount, but in USD... I can have a 2 bedroom apt to myself with a garage for my Subaru Legacy GT, and still have half my salary left over after taxes. So yes the buying power is greater in the US, much greater. For how long, I don't know. Yes, you can get lunch and dinner here for USD 5 (read: dollar menu) round the clock. The research opportunities and equipment here are also already set up, so you dont have to fight for funding. I remember I attended the Brain Gain stuff at the embassy here in 2006, and was surprised that with RM 50 million, the government hopes to invest in Nano tech and Bio tech and have a return in investment in 5 years or less. I told them that the concept was unreasonable since many well equipped US universities have spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the last decades but have only started reaping the financial rewards recently.

I have to admit, I do miss Malaysian Food, however, the industrial climate in Malaysia is not right for the development of a high tech company, primarily because business is done based on factors other than ability. Most of the deals are done under the table or on a non-fair tender setup. I have friends in the civil service, and that is how I know.

The absurd ROI expected from research is also a turnoff for me. Whereas in the US, money for research is invested in topics of general interest(furthering the science), Malaysian agencies funds research based on their potential commercialization. This is not surprising since that is the malaysian culture (everythign we do must make money!).

Overall, Malaysia is not that bad, but I do not think that now is the time for people like me to return. Oppotunities are not there and the culture is not right for my line of work either. Dont get me wrong, I will return back to Malaysia one day, just not today. And if I do go back, I will be working for myself, not any of the malaysian private companies. Malaysians have the wrong concept of K-economy. K-economy means that u start exporting knowledge as your main export. In my opinion, Malaysia has been very successful, since it has been exporting talent for years. Will this trend continue, I let u be the judge.

[vikraman]

true, you are right regarding the petrol but look from this point of view. After adding living expenses such as food, water, electricity, transportation, mortgage and etc, it comes up to the same thing. as you said their purchasing power is higher,but so is their living expenses. and things are not expensive in msia but with the tax and duty imposed, the price soars. and guys we always thing the grass is greener on the other side....and guys let talk about health care also. foreigner would actually like to come to places like msia and singapore because our health care is cheaper. in msia you can survive without insurance, but try doin that in usa or eu. you will go broke each time u make a trip to visit the doctor.

and one more thing, we are always comparing ourself with the advanced industrial country and the develop country. okay it makes sense because we want to compete with them. but at the same time i thing we must appreciate that despite, all the corruption and mat rempit, and social + political cases that are there, we live in peace without actually have to worry bout terrosit attack, suicide bombers and etc. and you will even appreciate even more if you actually go to countries like bangladesh and indonesia and zimbadwe. these ppl dun even have basic neccesity.

ps: am not sure why i am supporting msia

I'm going to use Australia as benchmark for comparison to clearly disprove your point about living expenses.

Person A is a Malaysian engineer, a graduate from UM. Person B is a Malaysian engineer who graduated from UNSW and resides and works in Australia.

Person A's starting salary upon graduation - RM 3,000 a month. (I'm being extremely generous here.) That works out to be RM36,000 a year.
Person B's starting salary upon graduation - A$ 51,000 a year. (Good University Guide 2009)

Person A, after income tax deductions, pays no tax in a given year. Person B, after deductions, pays roughly A$9,300 in income taxes. Hence his net earnings is A$41,700. Person A's net earnings is RM36,000.

Now let's look at expenses. For the comparison to be effective, both person's will be leading identical lives.
The four main expenses in any employee's day to day life are;
A) Housing & Utilities
B) Transportation
C) Living Expense (Food, Entertainment and Leisure.)
D) Savings.

HOUSING AND RELATED EXPENSES

Say both individuals live in rented housing (a one room apartment) near the center of their respective cities. Person A will pay (on KL rates) close to RM18,000 a year on rental.
Person B will pay (on Sydney rates) around A$ 15,600 a year on rental.

Person A will pay a further RM 6,000 a year for handphone, internet, electricity, water and cable tv.

Person B will pay a further A$ 4,080 a year for a triple play Handphone, Internet and Cable TV package and electricity and water.

TRANSPORTATION

Let's say both these individuals drive to work on a daily basis. They both purchase a new Honda Civic 2008 upon graduation as their first vehicle.

Person A pays RM 130,000. Person B pays A$ 29,000. Assuming they both have taken out a 10 year loan of 90% of the car value and this 10 year loan is at 3% interest. Adding fuel and maintanence, assuming they use a full tank every week.

Person A pays RM12,400 a year for the loan + RM4680 a year for fuel + RM 600 a year on maintanence = RM17,680
Person B pays A$3024 a year for the loan + A$ 3120 a year for fuel + A$ 600 a year on maintanence = A$ 6744.

LIVING EXPENSES

Let's take it that both of them purchase groceries and cook one meal a day at home, eat one meal out at work and have a simple breakfast everyday.

Person A - RM 3650 (Lunch at work everyday) + RM 5200 a year on weekly groceries. = RM8850
Person B - A$ 4368 (Lunch at work everyday) + A$ 3120 a year on weekly groceries. = A$7488 a year. (This is an overestimation, groceries in Australia are very very cheap but just for the heck of it.)

Assuming they both go out for a movie and two drinks a week.

Person A - RM 6760 a year on entertaiment.
Person B - A$ 4680 a year on entertainment.

Now let's tally up the totals and see the "savings" each Person has left at the end of the year.

Person A, Earnings - RM 36,000, Expenses - RM 57,290.
Net Savings - -RM21290

Person B, Earnings - A$ 41,700, Expenses - A$38,592
Net Savings - +A$ 3108

And that's IN THE FIRST YEAR OF EMPLOYMENT. The Malaysian Engineer is already living RM21,290 in debt in his first year. The Australian Engineer is already having a A$3108 surplus and this will continue to grow. The Malaysian Engineer will be forced to take a massive hit in living standards to even break even, let's not even talk about saving any money.

This entire analysis is very much in the surface, if we studied closer and fixed more variables that were ignored, the disparity will be even greater. (Oh and btw, Australia has free public healthcare which is of significantly better quality than Malaysian public healthcare. This analysis is assuming that both the Malaysian and Australian use only public healthcare.)

[Glassylicious]

true, you are right regarding the petrol but look from this point of view. After adding living expenses such as food, water, electricity, transportation, mortgage and etc, it comes up to the same thing. as you said their purchasing power is higher,but so is their living expenses. and things are not expensive in msia but with the tax and duty imposed, the price soars. and guys we always thing the grass is greener on the other side....and guys let talk about health care also. foreigner would actually like to come to places like msia and singapore because our health care is cheaper. in msia you can survive without insurance, but try doin that in usa or eu. you will go broke each time u make a trip to visit the doctor.

and one more thing, we are always comparing ourself with the advanced industrial country and the develop country. okay it makes sense because we want to compete with them. but at the same time i thing we must appreciate that despite, all the corruption and mat rempit, and social + political cases that are there, we live in peace without actually have to worry bout terrosit attack, suicide bombers and etc. and you will even appreciate even more if you actually go to countries like bangladesh and indonesia and zimbadwe. these ppl dun even have basic neccesity.

ps: am not sure why i am supporting msia http://www.recom.org/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif http://www.recom.org/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

For the first bolded part of the post, I just have one thing to say: Have you ever lived in the US/UK before? And managed your life there/seen people managing their salary? I completely understand and accept your points, and I do accept your reasoning for saying all this; after all, from your point of view, it really does sound like everyone else in this topic are ungrateful idiots. XD

But it's not as bad as you make it out to be. Life in the UK may involve high taxes/expensive utility bills, but people there are pretty good at getting past that. They turn off the lights [when not using] to conserve energy and whenever possible turn the heaters off, while in Malaysia stuff like that doesn't happen since electricity and water is so damn cheap.

It's all about adapting.

Also, let's talk numbers since I don't think you'll believe any of us until you see the figures for yourself. Working as a solicitor in a Magic Circle firm nets me about GBP5000 a month [yes guys I'm not kidding you, solicitors in London are filthy rich]. After deducting 40% for income tax, that leaves me with GBP3000. A week's groceries would roughly cost me GBP 20 at the very most , so that translates to GBP80 a month. Firms usually give me accommodation allowance so worries about expensive London accommodation are more or less taken care of.

Let's contrast with living in Malaysia. Starting salary for lawyers? RM2000. [I'm not even going to bother deducting EPF out of this]. Cost of groceries per week? Maybe around RM50 due to the relatively poorer purchasing power of the ringgit. So that's RM200 per month gone for groceries. I don't think I get accommodation allowances from Malaysian law firms, so sucks to be me when I have to shell out money for rent.

Things in the UK aren't as expensive as you think they are, it's all about careful spending.

Also, did I mention? Healthcare in the UK is provided free-of-charge by the National Health Service.

I really understand your sentiments, I do know that Malaysia is our home country after all, but you really do need to have proper facts when trying to compare it.



[b]Malaysians have the wrong concept of K-economy. K-economy means that u start exporting knowledge as your main export. In my opinion, Malaysia has been very successful, since it has been exporting talent for years. Will this trend continue, I let u be the judge.

Quoted for the effin' WIN. That certainly made my day. XD

[frankchong]

I am a Malaysian parent working overseas in the past 3 decades, I came from a poor family, rounded up in a new village during confrontation time when I was in transition, just because I am a Malaysian Chinese living in the area at the time. I managed to get out of the place and did well later in HSC. Considered career in Engineering/physics, medicine or law, but choose EE (closest to physics). I built radios, transimitters etc as a hobby, when I was a kid, got old equipment from telecoms etc for the school. I saw the opportunities in electronics. I was looking for self identity and future/security. I did not belong in PRC, KMT (Taiwan) and in Malaysia -- a second class citizen in the constitution and "imprisoned" me for doing nothing wrong. So, the only way I could get security is to have something people need and can not be taken away. Hence I need to be really good in something important -- electronics.
Rejected government scholarship offer because it was not in the line with what I wanted/believe in, hard to find anyone interested in electronics except a few of us die hards (who are in other countries as well) at the time.
I work outside Malaysia not because of pay, but education of the future generation and a fair society where we can develop our talent and contribute to the society at large meant a lot to me (and to a lot of highly qualified professionals too). I was happy to see products I have developed used in many applications, provided employment to people across the continents. We have changed the world with what we did. I was lucky but I saw a lot of others in similar situations were not so lucky. I can not be sure that my kids would be so lucky, if they were born in Malaysia.
I almost went back a few times, once after my job offer to work in Silicon Valley (USA), visa issued and relocation expenses paid by company, I went back and talk to a few govserment departments and decided to leave, after talking.
I had mentors in Silicon Valley who are white, Indian and Chinese. they took me in as part of the family, no discrimination. Was senior manager at MNC and VPs in high tech start ups, funded with capital in USA. Managed multiple engineering departments across different sites in US and overseas, with people of different races, but never had a race problem. Have more than 10 US and international patents issued.
I love Malaysia, that is why I still keep my citizenship, but I am worried for our fellow Malaysians. We are not developing the best human resources to compete effectively. Take this as an example, in the 70s, 80s Malaysia was ahead of China in many fields, but in the name if equality, we were preoccupied with who owns what rather than to nurture Malaysian companies to compete effectively world wide. Look at what China is doing now, take ZTE, China Development Bank just gave them a US$10B credit to fund their overseas projects. What this does is to create market for Chinese products and job opportunity at home. USA did it in the past, the Japanese did it, Singapore is doing it and Taiwan is doing it with ITRI, but our beloved Malaysia ?? We contribute our best talents to the world.
With policy problem and lack of critical mass, I do not see how we can compete. We are still arguing over what medium to teach science and math rather than trying to teach science and math well. In Darwin's time, Sarawak was at the forefront of evlutionary biology. Wallace (read Darwin's introduction to the Origin of Species, if you do not know who he is) was at Santubong doing his seminal work, but where are we now?
Life is not about money, it is about a future we can share in. At times when I am doing better I will share with others what I have/can, but when I or my future generations run into problem and need help, hope others will help them too. In this way we will build a security blanket for each other, so that we all can try to achieve our dreams. I owe a lot to the kind people of Malaysia, especially the natives of Sarawak, who took my ancestors in, arriving empty handed, hungry from China. This is just a part of the history of human migration -- and the cycles continues.

regards,
Frank Chong

[mehul91]

Well I understand that a lot of people's sentiment toward the country has changed in the recent years due to myriad of events. I do not disagree towards all of you who have express your opinion. Most if not all of what has been said here true. I clearly understands frankchong when he said that we are being treated like second class citizens. No doubt on that. But we nevertheless can't deny that who we are or what we are is somehow because of the way we have brought up in Malaysia. The country maybe not directly but indirecly have instilled values into us and make us a better person. Besides that, 50++ years from independence, we may not be the best country around but at least we are somehow safe and secure. Our students somehow have despite having a horrendous education system, have excelled and been to top institution in the world such as Harvard, Yale, Cambridge and etc. You may say that success depends more on the person and i agree with you but it also depends the education we have receive. Although Malaysia may not be the ideal place to work, it still is our country and we owe part if not all of our success to it. We should then at least appreciate that we are not born in some impoverished country without proper access to water and food, what more education. It is completely natural to compare with elite but lets not forget although we are not the elite, we are certainly well equiped compared to the likes of Bhutan, Mexico, Zimbabwe and etc. I believe the only thing that need to change in this country is the political scenario. And change for the better I mean, then alot of people would love to work here as well

[Young]

Well I understand that a lot of people's sentiment toward the country has changed in the recent years due to myriad of events. I do not disagree towards all of you who have express your opinion. Most if not all of what has been said here true. I clearly understands frankchong when he said that we are being treated like second class citizens. No doubt on that. But we nevertheless can't deny that who we are or what we are is somehow because of the way we have brought up in Malaysia. The country maybe not directly but indirecly have instilled values into us and make us a better person. Besides that, 50++ years from independence, we may not be the best country around but at least we are somehow safe and secure. Our students somehow have despite having a horrendous education system, have excelled and been to top institution in the world such as Harvard, Yale, Cambridge and etc. You may say that success depends more on the person and i agree with you but it also depends the education we have receive. Although Malaysia may not be the ideal place to work, it still is our country and we owe part if not all of our success to it. We should then at least appreciate that we are not born in some impoverished country without proper access to water and food, what more education. It is completely natural to compare with elite but lets not forget although we are not the elite, we are certainly well equiped compared to the likes of Bhutan, Mexico, Zimbabwe and etc. I believe the only thing that need to change in this country is the political scenario. And change for the better I mean, then alot of people would love to work here as well

Very well said.
Ain't no place like home.
Ain't no weirder politics than in Malaysia either. :P

IMHO, I don't think it's wrong to want to leave our country of birth to seek greener pastures. Obviously, if you're a scholar and have signed a lengthy bond, you're contractually-obligated to return.

However, when it comes to self-sponsored individuals who wish to work overseas, I don't see how that makes them unpatriotic. I'll be very frank and possibly sound a bit selfish by saying this but for individuals who have spent millions of ringgit on education, it's only fair for them to have that desire to live a better and more satisfying life.

The government once pleaded for professional Malaysians in far away lands to return and serve locally but after being denied so many opportunities by virtue of race, I don't blame these individuals for not wanting to come back.

Heck personally, my parents didn't spend their entire fortune on my education just to see me slog my balls off to make a decent living.

What do you guys think?

[mehul91]

Very well said.
Ain't no place like home.
Ain't no weirder politics than in Malaysia either. :P

IMHO, I don't think it's wrong to want to leave our country of birth to seek greener pastures. Obviously, if you're a scholar and have signed a lengthy bond, you're contractually-obligated to return.

However, when it comes to self-sponsored individuals who wish to work overseas, I don't see how that makes them unpatriotic. I'll be very frank and possibly sound a bit selfish by saying this but for individuals who have spent millions of ringgit on education, it's only fair for them to have that desire to live a better and more satisfying life.

The government once pleaded for professional Malaysians in far away lands to return and serve locally but after being denied so many opportunities by virtue of race, I don't blame these individuals for not wanting to come back.

Heck personally, my parents didn't spend their entire fortune on my education just to see me slog my balls off to make a decent living.

What do you guys think?


Of course, if you earn more overseas then it makes perfect sense to go overseas. But hey overseas is not all good to. You still have racial issues although it may not be obvious. But i would say, if its not overseas, then Malaysia would do. You are rest assured that Petronas Twin Tower will not fall due to plane crash.lol.http://www.recom.org/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

[youngyew]

You are rest assured that Petronas Twin Tower will not fall due to plane crash.lol.http://www.recom.org/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif
But a one-year-old stadium's roof may very well collapse by itself. :(

[Young]

But a one-year-old stadium's roof may very well collapse by itself. :(

Quoted for the sheer amount of WIN in it.

[eve88]

I personally don't feel that I owe the Malaysian government a single sen.

My gratitude goes to *individual people* - teachers, friends, mentors, doctors etc that have helped me along the way, all those who - despite a flawed system, despite all the "bad things" - gave time and effort beyond the call of duty to help me and others...

My immediate family is now scattered across 3 countries (5 people) - and the corresponding "ties" back to Malaysia have weakened - I can't even recognize Kuching anymore!

On the other hand, I have not ruled out Malaysia as a place to work, I'd probably give it some plus points when I seriously think about where I want to be after I graduate - but the rest of it will depend on the costs and benefits.

Currently, the "costs" of working in Malaysia are too high - racial discrimination plays a big role, as well as lack of professional opportunities (specialist training). Not to mention a small starting pay vs what I'll have here (even in NZ, and thats like half what Aus is offering for fresh doctors), and overwork....

Small example : I've been tutoring part time here (4 hours a week), and over 5 months, ive made $700 (20 hours) - compared to say, teaching fulltime in Malaysia (temporary
teaching) which gets you something like rm1200/month (say, 160 hours). Correct me if im way out on this, but you get the picture of the pay differences involved.

[As ive said before in other threads - its not racial discrimination per se, its institutionalized racial discrimination thats the large problem.]

[jianyi_crystal]

after i read all treads, i can conclude that we have many profession and specialist in our country, and these people may the created by our own education system. but after be created, the nation don't need such profession, and this profession seem useless to nation, than they finally force to work in oversea. most of them have good feedback about oversea, and start to compare our country to that country, i should say it is unfair to compare at that way.

but honestly, our country did not do much research, my ambition is become a biological researcher, i am also start to feel headache now. why our country doesn't develop in research. i think because of government don't no interest in this field, they only depend of others country research and others country profession, it is quiet irrational. why they do believe on their own citizen since we are here? why they can't spend their money for our own research? we are not on demand here, so how we want to stay here?

if i want to go aboard this is the only reason, the country don't need us. but it is unfair to compere at the finance aspect or somethings else, because this is our country, we should accept it. if we own do not love our country, who else?

[Young]

after i read all treads, i can conclude that we have many profession and specialist in our country, and these people may the created by our own education system. but after be created, the nation don't need such profession, and this profession seem useless to nation, than they finally force to work in oversea. most of them have good feedback about oversea, and start to compare our country to that country, i should say it is unfair to compare at that way.

but honestly, our country did not do much research, my ambition is become a biological researcher, i am also start to feel headache now. why our country doesn't develop in research. i think because of government don't no interest in this field, they only depend of others country research and others country profession, it is quiet irrational. why they do believe on their own citizen since we are here? why they can't spend their money for our own research? we are not on demand here, so how we want to stay here?

if i want to go aboard this is the only reason, the country don't need us. but it is unfair to compere at the finance aspect or somethings else, because this is our country, we should accept it. if we own do not love our country, who else?

It is true that we have many professionals here but the reason why they leave isn't because there's an excess of professionals. Instead, most of those who migrate are highly trained individuals who are not remunerated accordingly. They leave because Malaysia is unable to provide them with the opportunities and challenges worthy of their capabilities.

About "this profession seem useless to the nation", hah! Please get your facts straight. Many migrants are highly trained doctors, accountants, engineers, lawyers, business people and the likes. What makes you think they're 'useless' to Malaysia? Please do not make such sweeping statements.

And may I ask why is it unfair to compare?

[jianyi_crystal]

It is true that we have many professionals here but the reason why they leave isn't because there's an excess of professionals. Instead, most of those who migrate are highly trained individuals who are not remunerated accordingly. They leave because Malaysia is unable to provide them with the opportunities and challenges worthy of their capabilities.

About "this profession seem useless to the nation", hah! Please get your facts straight. Many migrants are highly trained doctors, accountants, engineers, lawyers, business people and the likes. What makes you think they're 'useless' to Malaysia? Please do not make such sweeping statements.

And may I ask why is it unfair to compare?

sorry i may be miss up something, profession i mean is like researchers. is true many others profession contribute to country, i should not deny, thanks for reminding.

why should we compare. human can not compare human, country also. then hav another country that worst that us. we also have we own benefit too. so it is totally different at all, why we compare?

[Young]

sorry i may be miss up something, profession i mean is like researchers. is true many others profession contribute to country, i should not deny, thanks for reminding.

why should we compare. human can not compare human, country also. then hav another country that worst that us. we also have we own benefit too. so it is totally different at all, why we compare?

Why are you comparing countries which are worse off than Malaysia? Why aren't we comparing ourselves to Singapore instead? They're smaller, have less resources, started out with nothing and they still beat us flat on all counts.

This is exactly the mentality that may be the downfall of our country. One of our ministers once compared Malaysia to Uganda, saying that we're far ahead of Uganda despite both countries gaining independence at the same time. Needless to say, that minister got shot down faster than he could blink....:wink

[jianyi_crystal]

Why are you comparing countries which are worse off than Malaysia? Why aren't we comparing ourselves to Singapore instead? They're smaller, have less resources, started out with nothing and they still beat us flat on all counts.

This is exactly the mentality that may be the downfall of our country. One of our ministers once compared Malaysia to Uganda, saying that we're far ahead of Uganda despite both countries gaining independence at the same time. Needless to say, that minister got shot down faster than he could blink....:wink

one thing i wish to say is our politician is so close mind and some of them don hav good attitude, it can show in many thing, but i wont mention it. i didn't mean to compare to any country. i mean not to compare and start to criticize our own country. criticize does not bring any improvement, but is more looked down by others country, because the citizen itself already not appreciate their own country.

[Melzie]

Yes. I'd work in Malaysia. I was born, raised, and educated here. It is where I belong.

My family is here. My real friends are here. Everyone I love is here.

To give up all those people who love me as much (or perhaps even more) as I love them for money is not worth it.

Plus, I wanna serve my government. I believe everyone deserves a second chance. And that includes Malaysia.

[luminodreamer89]

I agree with Young, in terms of quoting a better comparison.

Malaysia, as a developing country, we have managed to build magnificent skyscraper like Petronas Twin Tower, world-class Sepang F1 circuit, and hosted many significant world conferences like NAM and OIC, as well as being the host for the 16th Commonwealth Game in 1998.

So, by reading the examples above, we can say that, our country is obviously better than many others Third World Countries which are impoverished and under-developed. Therefore, to compare with them, is not a good way to improve ourselves. The countries we should compare, or more precisely speaking, observe would be Japan, Singapore, India and China. (or maybe Vietnam)

It's just the same as an excellent student who always wants to get admitted into some prestigious universities in the world, rather than going for our local public universities which are constantly sliding between 200-400.


Japan, which was almost destroyed in WW2 by the atomic bomb, not to mentioned many of its citizens are born handicapped due to the radiations. But, in about 50 years' time, we can see how its education system has evolved, by having the arguably toughest entrance exam in the world. Japan is so advanced in its science and technology. But, Japan is ranked in top 5 of having the highest suicide percentage due to high stress levels.

Singapore, our twins. Separated in 1965. Started from scratch, yet we can see how Lee Kuan Yew brings up Singapore to be a well-respected and renowned small island. Both NUS and NTU made it into top 100, with 30 and 70 respectively in THES-QS ranking table. Singapore, with little natural resources, able to excel tremendously in economy and education. However, due to the elitism mentality and the high stress levels, we can read from the newspapers that most of the professionals are acting wild and uncontrollable at times. And politics, in the near future, I dont think PAP will lose. lol.

For China and India, their GDPs are growing gradually depsite the financial slump. And, in terms of education and economy, again they are the leaders in Asian region, if not the world. However, the gap between the rich and the poor is still so wide, and this is not a good sign if they are to come up with a stable society.

In conclusion, we should always be grateful that we are born in this country. Three majority races and the minorities in East Malaysia, with so many local scrumptious delicacies, with an abundance of cultural heritages and of course with a colourful history.

While for the racial discrimination, Malay superiority mentality (Ketuanan Melayu) by some right-wing Malays, it is for us, the younger generation to change. It's obviously hard. That's why we should study abroad, learn how a good democratic nation is being administered and gain the knowledge required to help our nation. And, contribute what we have learnt to our government.

In this forum, I have seen many Malays are well aware of what is happening in our country. And, the Chinese, Indian and other minorities are willing to forgive and come back to serve the country.

I know, I am being simply idealistic, to form a Utopia. But, remember all things are started off with a little dream.

[digimushu]

Yes, there are a lot of us professionals outside Malaysia. A lot of us worked our way up the food chain, from working at cafeterias, being janitors, etc. Many of us appreciate the opportunities that we get outside, and the appreciation for the work that we do in our field from our peers. If we return home, there is almost no recognition of the work that we have done in our area.

Sadly, none of the achievements that Malaysia has is of its own citizens. We have no world class contractor that can build the Twin Towers (they are built by Koreans and Japanese), and we certainly are not capable of building the KLIA ourselves. The Bakun Dam, which is contracted to a local firm, fails to materialize because of various reasons. Need I say more? It seems that we are so afraid of our own failure that we do not even try anymore.

We crave for recognition, yet we do not aspire to be the best of what we are. We hope that others will do all the work and we can reap what others have sought. This is the wrong mentality. We should aspire to be the best, to do our best, even in the most challenging situation. When we first try to walk, we fall down, and get up. When we first try to run, we scrape our knee as we slip and fell. Each failure leaves a reminder of how we learn, and hopefully the lessons learned.

Let me share some lessons from the auto industry...

Failure, the secret to success (http://dreams.honda.com/#/feature_fa).

Kick out the ladder (http://dreams.honda.com/#/feature_la).

I wish that Malaysians can see beyond their pride of their own achievements, and aspire to be better. There is always "better". Only when you are the best, then the only competition you will have is yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCYGNGJejGs).

Of course, there will be other things that dictate whether someone returns or not, but at the end of the day, we do what is the best for ourselves. Afterall, wasn't that why our ancestors came to Malaysia from China, India, etc?

[Athersin]

Our education system has chugged along over the past 40 years on "auto-pilot" mode. Problem is, its a 40 year old plane that has no auto-pilot capability! If we go on this way, there is only one direction it will go to. Some people have bailed out into private schools, learning centers and homeschooling.

On the surface there are just too many problems. I think, the real problem is leadership or lack of it! With occasional policy speeches and grand launching of policies, politicians and businesses taking the opportunity of providing products & services to the schools, nothing is really happening.

We need decisive and knowledgeable leadership who can engage all stake holders, not provide mere lip-service!

We need leadership that know and can formulate policies in line with global economic, technological and social development. Having said this, a deep rethinking of schools needs to be done. Like learning, we need to go beyond the limitations of our minds. Education need to go beyond schools.

If there are thses changes that happen in Malaysia, i guess i would be the first one to proclaim the joy of studying and working in malaysia!

[youngyew]

Hi Athersin, while we welcome quoted text from external sources, please kindly cite the source when you do so. :)

I am providing the original source in your case:
http://educationmalaysia.blogspot.com/2009/02/do-we-really-learn.html#2760544466577102093

[frankchong]

My goal here is not to tell you to be unpatrotic or to abandon Malaysia. As a Malaysian, I owe it to you that I share some of what I have seen with you. It is part of our history (or personal history), if we can not be honest about it and discuss rationally, the problem will never be solved.
I had my dreams of going back to Malaysia with my skills and experience, and a few of us had gone back (and then left). However, what we found is not a very welcoming environment or an environment not conducive to attract talent. We can not do it ourselves, we need to create critical mass. Let take specific example, wafer fab., it is a big investment and intensely talent based, even we had attracted foreign talent in the beginning, most of them left after a few years, seeing that their kids' education are compromised. Can you really expect someone doing well in their own country and profession, becoming a second class citizen in another country?
Some of you may say, we are better than most countries, the fact is that you want the best product for your money, it is the same for most people. So, unless you can make the best products, your market is severely limitted, just look at the financial performance of Intel and AMD. So, if you are thinking of k-economy, you have to aim to be the best in the product segment you want to be in. This is what Digimushu and a lot of us are facing. We have to be honest and be critical of ourselves when we approach these problems. However, after we have acquired those traits, we found that our mind sets are too different from those at home, we do not fit in anymore!
There are people who said those working outside are unpatrotic, lets take a closer look. I have contributed to Malaysia because part of the products I (and others) created end up manufactured in Malaysia and other parts of SEA. A number of years ago, a MNC looking for an Asian site was choosing between Malaysia, Vietnam and China. I recommended Malaysia and tolding them the reason why they should choose Malaysia, got them in touch with the right people and they have been there for a number of years now. You can help Malaysia in many different ways, not necessary by staying home.
A number of years ago, after the 1998 anti Chinese riot in Indonesia, politicians reminded people to be grateful and look at what happen else where -- it is the job of the government to protect the legal right of individuals, isn't it ? Does it meant that if I didn't vote for you you would burn my house? Look at Obama'a call, I need your help, together we can change the country and the world. I can not do it alone. In the midst of the worst economic crisis, I felt compelled to do my part.
If you want to be recognized for your talent and hard work, you have to be in places where your talent and hard work counts. In places where most of the riches come of posession of political power and natural resources, talent is less important. Nice things may be said, but at the end of the day, we are still the outsiders. There are ways to make money in Malaysia, and it is a lot easier than working outside, if you can get into the system and go in bed with the right people (please do not take this literally!).
Are there roles, where Malaysia can play a significant role? Definately, but we have to be very careful on what we choose, get the right partner to crate critical mass and develop the talent needed. However, on products that have a world market, high technical content, we have to be really careful on what we pick and the role we can play successfully.
As Digimushu has said, we are too focus on showmanship, not the substance. I remember when I visited Standford electronic research labs in early 80s, those were very old buildings, but they did first class work. You can say of the old radiations labs in MIT. We I visited the Summer Palace in Beijing a number of years ago, I was not proud of the place as an ethnic Chinese. It was built with Chinese Navy fund, instead of building up the navy, it was diverted to celebrate empress Dowager's birthday! The consequence, China lost the war with Japan (before WW1), and other wars continued. When I visied KL and Putrajaya, I had the same feeling, instead of feeling proud, I felt sad, I would rather see the fund used to develop top rated universities and research centers in Malaysia. We need human capital more than the physical show and tell. However, it is easier to take profit from a physical real estate project than developing talent.
The difference is that some go through this world try to grap everything possible, claim what others have done as their own, others, even acquired wealth by bringing products to society, donated most of their wealth to benefit humanity. Which would you respect and which one you would rather be?
We all come empty handed and would go empty handed, What we think we have is not ours permanently, I have decided to make use of my talent and hardwork to play my role while I am here, not acquiring wealth by conquering others or take posession of what belongs to everyone. Iy is not the easiest or lucrative way, but it is meaningful. Hope I leave this world a better place for future generations.

regards,
Frank Chong

[louis8_8wang]

Hot topic and controversial issue. In my opinion, it really depends on the person himself. Some of them feel hard to suit themselves to the circumstances oversea. On the other hands, some people have spend several years in that country to pursue their studies.
In this case, I cannot give you a definite answer. I believe that most probably I will stay in the country which I will have graduated.

I have several reasons to support my stand. Firstly, I will have higher chance to continue my postgraduate studies. Secondly, I already suit myself and mix around well there. Besides, I'm not sure that I can secure a sit as well if I come back. Finally, I'm still love my country although I'm not stand on that land.

[vseehua]

but honestly, our country did not do much research, my ambition is become a biological researcher, i am also start to feel headache now. why our country doesn't develop in research. i think because of government don't no interest in this field, they only depend of others country research and others country profession, it is quiet irrational. why they do believe on their own citizen since we are here? why they can't spend their money for our own research? we are not on demand here, so how we want to stay here?

if i want to go aboard this is the only reason, the country don't need us. but it is unfair to compere at the finance aspect or somethings else, because this is our country, we should accept it. if we own do not love our country, who else?

It is true that we have many professionals here but the reason why they leave isn't because there's an excess of professionals. Instead, most of those who migrate are highly trained individuals who are not remunerated accordingly. They leave because Malaysia is unable to provide them with the opportunities and challenges worthy of their capabilities.

About "this profession seem useless to the nation", hah! Please get your facts straight. Many migrants are highly trained doctors, accountants, engineers, lawyers, business people and the likes. What makes you think they're 'useless' to Malaysia? Please do not make such sweeping statements.

And may I ask why is it unfair to compare?Well, I am taking a course in which there aren't many job opportunities in Malaysia. If I am not working in Malaysia afterwards this will be the reason why... Malaysia lacks the opportunity to give to professionals of many many emerging and strongly rising sectors... As far as I know, as long as I am jobless, I am useless to the nation...

[Athersin]

Well, I am taking a course in which there aren't many job opportunities in Malaysia. If I am not working in Malaysia afterwards this will be the reason why... Malaysia lacks the opportunity to give to professionals of many many emerging and strongly rising sectors... As far as I know, as long as I am jobless, I am useless to the nation...
What is the course that u take ? as far as i am concerned , malaysia is lagging behind in research area doesn't mean it will continue so in next few years.

[youngyew]

There are people who said those working outside are unpatrotic, lets take a closer look. I have contributed to Malaysia because part of the products I (and others) created end up manufactured in Malaysia and other parts of SEA. A number of years ago, a MNC looking for an Asian site was choosing between Malaysia, Vietnam and China. I recommended Malaysia and tolding them the reason why they should choose Malaysia, got them in touch with the right people and they have been there for a number of years now. You can help Malaysia in many different ways, not necessary by staying home.
Outright the best stuff I have read today.

[vseehua]

Other than OSRAM GmBH I don't see many good environments in assembling and developing technologies related to photonics. And with the government's tendency to hog the limelight in the wrong areas (dirty politics) and no initiative is made to improve research and development, I doubt I can find a related job in a few years...What is the course that u take ? as far as i am concerned , malaysia is lagging behind in research area doesn't mean it will continue so in next few years.

[louis8_8wang]

May I ask a question? Does ALL the working environment in Malaysia also involve the striving of power? Having heard my father's working environment, I'm worry to work now. How about overseas?

[Young]

May I ask a question? Does ALL the working environment in Malaysia also involve the striving of power? Having heard my father's working environment, I'm worry to work now. How about overseas?

I don't think it's all about power. If you are self-employed or run your own business, there's not alot of power to fight for. XD

In the corporate world; yes, there might be a power-frenzy. However, I think it's more of a strive for money rather than a strive for power.

[henry_yew]

However in the corporate world, the power comes with money, too, right?

People strive for power not just for the sake of power. It definitely comes with more financial backing.

Then also, there's the strive for ego. It's all part of the package, too!

[Young]

However in the corporate world, the power comes with money, too, right?

People strive for power not just for the sake of power. It definitely comes with more financial backing.

Then also, there's the strive for ego. It's all part of the package, too!

Couldn't have put it beter myself.

Money, power, fame, ego, connections, sex.. It's all part and parcel of work!

Ok, maybe not sex.. :P

[louis8_8wang]

The "striving" same as overseas? Or overseas much more peaceful?

In my opinion, it is good to be competitive but we should compete in a proper way such as creative and unusual idea. Some of the people manage to think all sort of dirty ways to make themselves more prominence than others. For an instance, sabotage and corruption.

[hfz]

I would say that it could be an obligation to come back and serve your own country. But on the other hand, Malaysia may not have the relevant resources to allow some students to work here.

The best option would be work in a developed country, and come back with the expertise gained.

[frankchong]

There is quite a bit of talk about office politics and work environment, and I have also said the mind set difference, value or discrimination in Malaysia and Silicon Valley. I will try to be more explicit here.

Silicon Valley Culture:
A lot of people or places want to copy the success of Silicon Valley, most could only see the physical infrastructure, but missed the intellectual capital/mind set. The beauty of Silicon is in its process and mind set. No one knows what or where is the next breakthrough is going to come from, and market survival is the best referee, it is evolution in practice. You get the best talents and a level playing field and let the outcome be the judge. There is an anti establishment sort of mind set here, if you respect power too much, you will never dare or think of unseating them, so there will not be start ups unseating established companies!
When the outcome is determine by results, you want the best people in your team, why discriminate against yourself ? You can play politics to some extend, but can you deliver? If you are talking about forest/land concessions -- yes, but inventing something new -- no. If the best engineer is hard to work with, but he is the only one who can bring a new product or technology to fruition, you make him happy to work in your department/company. There is a lot of ego going on in the Malaysian context because most companies and government departments are not trying to solve the hardests technical/product problems. People can claim to be really good, but none is tested. I used to manage a product in an MNC with custom hardware and over 1 million lines of code in the control software (quite some time ago), you will some find out soon that it is not the quantity, but the quality that counts.
In the MNC (one of the largest in the field), we funded multiple competing projects in the beginning and at intemediate points, we had program reviews to find out which ones to continue and the resources on projects that lagged behind will be given to the front runner. It is like picking the best runner/team to compete, give people a chance and uses the results in the field to determine the outcome.
If you use this approach, a lot of things that is poorly done in Malaysia becomes very simple. Take education, there are multiple streams existing in Malaysia, get a MINIMUM set of basic requirements that applies to all, then set up a objective goals that applies to all. If you want the best scientists, then test them in science etc. If people want to specialise in Malay, Chinese or Indian studies, just tell them the job opportunities would be limitted, and they have to face the consequences themselves if they find themselves unemployed. Give them an even playing field and training needed to excel, and judge them on results. Adjust funding according to results.
This will avoid the mistake like instruction language switching and endless discussions on policy issues that lead to no where. Stop eliminating competition by political means, but select the strong ones based on results. Our job then is to try to give equal opportunity to everyone, and let them self select on which group they belong.
If we believe every one is equal and we want a fair system to develop the best among us, this is what I would do but ...

regards,
Frank Chong

Have some fun -- rewarding results

A priest and New York taxi driver passed away, both arrived at Heaven's gate at the same time and met St Peter at the gate.
St Peter welcomes the taxi driver with open arms and left the priest cold. The priest said to St Peter, that is not fair, he was preaching the good words most of his life, but the taxi driver ??
Well, St Peter said, look, when you prayed, people fell asleep, but when he drives, people prayed!


regards,
Frank

[strawglow]

If it were me.I'd work overseas for a couple of years then come back to Malaysia.Somewhere nearer to here.Not for the pay but more for the experience.I believe you can be rich in whatever you want as long as you have passion,determination,dedication and education.

Yup,our country political scene is embarrassing.But I'm optimistic...they'll work it out eventually...

[markwongsk]

Maybe you should say: we will work it out eventually? After all, we as the younger generation will be the ones making the difference. Whether it is as a politician or as a corporate worker or just as a school teacher - we are the ones who will determine Malaysia's future. If we choose to abandon our country and let it rot... well, so be it. That doesn't mean I'm implying working overseas is bad, it's just some people never have the intention to even come back. We should give back to the country some way or another. And then if you feel you have paid the debts or you really cannot stand it anymore, you're free to go =) At least, that's MHO.

And to answer the question, given a choice, I would not work in Malaysia. Well, at least not with the current situation. But wait, work? Hmmm, it's hard to find employment these days, why be picky? And do I have a choice? I'm a Malaysian. Unless I'm working under government orders in a foreign country, I guess I will at least work in Malaysia some few years.

If it were me.I'd work overseas for a couple of years then come back to Malaysia.Somewhere nearer to here.Not for the pay but more for the experience.I believe you can be rich in whatever you want as long as you have passion,determination,dedication and education.

Yup,our country political scene is embarrassing.But I'm optimistic...they'll work it out eventually...

[erikanyam]

For me,I prefer Singapore than Malaysia because of the competitive environment in Singapore would make me to work harder to achieve my dream.That would remind me that I am not the good student,there is still have many good students out there better than me.I am willing to be bond by Singapore government as long as I get the high-pay job.Besides,I can improve my english communication skill in Singapore.

[KenT13]

I would like to work with in US with NASA or Switzerland on CERN peroject. . .fat dream though... : (

[zeeyang]

I would like to work with in US with NASA or Switzerland on CERN peroject. . .fat dream though... : (

Same here! But the first requirement for NASA is to become a USA citizen.. fat chance indeed.:cry

[KenT13]

Same here! But the first requirement for NASA is to become a USA citizen.. fat chance indeed.:cry

Oh reAlly???? I didn't know that. Z z z

[cycycy]

Hmm. Depends on how the country will become by the time I graduate :laugh

[yhu1]

Depends. I think that if I were given such opportunity to work overseas, I will stay there for a while and observe. Let say if I really cant adapt the life there and get a feeling of homesick, I may just come back to my hometown. But if the life there is awesome, I dont think it's a bad idea to stay there. And perhaps, ask my family to migrate ;D

For me,I prefer Singapore than Malaysia because of the competitive environment in Singapore would make me to work harder to achieve my dream.That would remind me that I am not the good student,there is still have many good students out there better than me.I am willing to be bond by Singapore government as long as I get the high-pay job.Besides,I can improve my english communication skill in Singapore.
yap..Agree:P

[xJing]

I'll definitely return to Malaysia. You say you want to leave because the economy in whichever country you choose to stay in is better and so you'll have better pay. Well if everyone did that, then how on earth do you expect the wages in Malaysia to get any higher, seeing that we aren't contributing to Malaysia's economic growth.
And honestly, competition in Malaysia can get tight too. No need to run away to some other country. Even in terms of English proficiency in certain sectors.
Besides, I'm going to study Medicine. Among the reasons I chose this is to help people (yes, cliche, but true, and that's not the whole picture anyway). So if I chose to go to some other country to help the people there, I'd be betraying my own nation in assisting the citizen's here.

Call me foolish for thinking this, and who knows my views may change over time and experience, but as of now, my loyalty lies with my nation. :)

[acgerlok7]

If only the government change their attitude i will be more than willing to serve malaysia... After all, im a true blue malaysian... It is the policy that is the main cause of problem.. Im very very sure that if the pm and his men really put into actions what they have promise... Then the 1 malaysia concept will not just be an empty talk slogan which is being commercialised... Well... If THEY do not change their racist policy... Its not the fault of us leaving... After all we are just normal human beings going for greener pastures for the sake of survival.:)

Do you realise that actually MANY( i mean it) malaysian yearn to return home... Take for example, im sure all of you guys who have read the papers recently must have know about the man who have been part of the team of the design of iphone 4... He have publicly declare his desire to return home... He is not the only one... There are many more who wants to come back , nevertheless.. The country's policy dettered them and force them to turn their backs away... Can you blame them? Im sure many of them would love to call malaysia their home, if the gov make them feel appreciated and comfortable in it..:)

[Nicholas92]

Well to me, clearly people who stay overseas but say they want to return to Malaysia don't want it enough. Maybe it's just me, but I'm a firm believer of the 'If you don't like it, change it' way rather than just waiting for the results to happen. Of course I understand sometimes how people shift away so they can provide for their family - fair enough, family is a big and personal consideration and I'm not going to make people give that up, even for a bigger good. I'm not entirely sure I'd come back myself if none of my family or friends are present in Malaysia. Still, I must say I disapprove when people proclaim themselves 'loyal Malaysians' or 'true Malaysians' or 'proud Malaysians' and then just run off.

At least the JPA scholars who default on their bonds and don't deserve their scholarship are open about their level of patriotism.

[acgerlok7]

Well to me, clearly people who stay overseas but say they want to return to Malaysia don't want it enough. Maybe it's just me, but I'm a firm believer of the 'If you don't like it, change it' way rather than just waiting for the results to happen. Of course I understand sometimes how people shift away so they can provide for their family - fair enough, family is a big and personal consideration and I'm not going to make people give that up, even for a bigger good. I'm not entirely sure I'd come back myself if none of my family or friends are present in Malaysia. Still, I must say I disapprove when people proclaim themselves 'loyal Malaysians' or 'true Malaysians' or 'proud Malaysians' and then just run off.

At least the JPA scholars who default on their bonds and don't deserve their scholarship are open about their level of patriotism.
I totally agree with your point of view...that only by actions, can we change and transform malaysia...no point declaring the loyalty and then after run away from reality... After all, if we have a chance to prove our sheer determination to change through votes... Why underutilise our rights? :) that is why from theb till now.. Tony pua, the dap mp, is one of the charismatic and driven minded leader i admired.. He has business in singapore, he have bucks of money to live a more than luxurious life in singapore, yet he decided to return to malaysia to be an agent of change... However, i do think that some or should i say most non malays left this country mainly due to their dissapointment with the gov's policy , especially with the scholarships and education issues...imagine a guy scored straight A+ in his spm, only to witness his friend - a bumi grabbing all the possible scholarships available with a less than decent results..how would he feel as a malaysian? Being treated as second class citizen? And a guy who scored 4 flats in stpm but fail to get into local unis.. Meanwhile his matriks counterpart got into local uni critical courses with a horrendous results... At the same time, he obtained admission and scholarships to study at nus in singapore...do you think he will still stay in malaysia...i doubt so...

[xJing]

I totally agree with your point of view...that only by actions, can we change and transform malaysia...no point declaring the loyalty and then after run away from reality... After all, if we have a chance to prove our sheer determination to change through votes... Why underutilise our rights? :) that is why from theb till now.. Tony pua, the dap mp, is one of the charismatic and driven minded leader i admired.. He has business in singapore, he have bucks of money to live a more than luxurious life in singapore, yet he decided to return to malaysia to be an agent of change... However, i do think that some or should i say most non malays left this country mainly due to their dissapointment with the gov's policy , especially with the scholarships and education issues...imagine a guy scored straight A+ in his spm, only to witness his friend - a bumi grabbing all the possible scholarships available with a less than decent results..how would he feel as a malaysian? Being treated as second class citizen? And a guy who scored 4 flats in stpm but fail to get into local unis.. Meanwhile his matriks counterpart got into local uni critical courses with a horrendous results... At the same time, he obtained admission and scholarships to study at nus in singapore...do you think he will still stay in malaysia...i doubt so...


Feeling disappointed is not a reason to leave! Shouldn't it further motivate one to stay in order to change how things are going? If all we do is sit around, gripe, complain, then migrate, then who's going to change anything? The only people left here would be the people who don't want change to take place. No, if something is going on that we don't like, all the more reason to stay and make a stand.

[day_dreamer]

Feeling disappointed is not a reason to leave! Shouldn't it further motivate one to stay in order to change how things are going? If all we do is sit around, gripe, complain, then migrate, then who's going to change anything? The only people left here would be the people who don't want change to take place. No, if something is going on that we don't like, all the more reason to stay and make a stand.

I like your attitude, but sadly, there are more important things in life to pursue, because I'm pretty sure I won't live long enough to see the day Malaysia change.

[Jagermeister]

I like your attitude, but sadly, there are more important things in life to pursue, because I'm pretty sure I won't live long enough to see the day Malaysia change.

Like bills to pay, better quality of live and quality education for the children. :wink. I spend some time growing up in Singapore, my mom dump her Singaporean IC and became Malaysian, so did my sister.

Singapore is a place where I'd work for 5-10 years, but that's it. I'd gladly return to Malaysia after a decade. Just had enough of endless malls and fake beach, makes more sense living in Malaysia.

However, now that I'm planning to do my post-grad in the US, then upon the completion of my studies, I'd stay at least 5 years before I return, 10 years max. The family will have to shift too. This is for me to gain experience in the field of my study, put it into practice.

The government should not see Malaysian working abroad as abandoning the mother soil, but instead gaining valuable knowledge, only to return later to contribute. Call it delayed-contribution if you may.

[henry_yew]

The government should not see Malaysian working abroad as abandoning the mother soil, but instead gaining valuable knowledge, only to return later to contribute. Call it delayed-contribution if you may.

I like this part, and I share this view. But I've got a caveat to it - contribution with just reward; I need to live, too, and I intend to do so comfortably.

Life is too short to be just kept living with the barest necessities, at least for me.

[day_dreamer]

Like bills to pay, better quality of live and quality education for the children. :wink. I spend some time growing up in Singapore, my mom dump her Singaporean IC and became Malaysian, so did my sister.

Singapore is a place where I'd work for 5-10 years, but that's it. I'd gladly return to Malaysia after a decade. Just had enough of endless malls and fake beach, makes more sense living in Malaysia.

However, now that I'm planning to do my post-grad in the US, then upon the completion of my studies, I'd stay at least 5 years before I return, 10 years max. The family will have to shift too. This is for me to gain experience in the field of my study, put it into practice.

The government should not see Malaysian working abroad as abandoning the mother soil, but instead gaining valuable knowledge, only to return later to contribute. Call it delayed-contribution if you may.

Delayed-contribution, yes. Definitely. But with the rapid advancement in IT and rapid globalization changes that we see, it is possible to contribute back to Malaysia without going back. Honestly I believe you might be able to contribute more by staying overseas as much as possible.

Why ?

With that kind of crime rate in Malaysia, I don't have the confidence that I will remain as one piece for 20 years if I were to stay in Malaysia. When I go back as an expat that is coming home, I'm pretty sure I've accumulated some wealth and I drive a pretty decent car and own a pretty decent home. BUT, will it be comfortable and peaceful to live in ? I will get some weird eyes looking at me, some weird motorist passing by my house at 12am in midnight.

Will I be able to contribute to my country's growht if I were to live in that kind of environment ?

[youngyew]

A good country to live in is not a country where you could build a mansion with your foreign investment money, hire seven guards and two chauffeurs, send your kids to international schools, mingle with other elites all day long and live a luxurious but isolated life.

A good country is a country where you and your daughter can walk on the street with minimal fear, where you could proudly proclaim it as your own without being told the contrary everyday, and where you could actually sing the first line of the national anthem and actually mean it.

[day_dreamer]

A good country to live in is not a country where you could build a mansion with your foreign investment money, hire seven guards and two chauffeurs, send your kids to international schools, mingle with other elites all day long and live a luxurious but isolated life.

A good country is a country where you and your daughter can walk on the street with minimal fear, where you could proudly proclaim it as your own without being told the contrary everyday, and where you could actually sing the first line of the national anthem and actually mean it.

Aye good point youngyew but we don't get to enjoy that kind of safety level in Malaysia now.

The problem is the people. Malaysians are pretty selfish. They see bad things happening but they don't give a damn. They don't call the police. They don't call the fire department. There's always this "Oh well someone else will call 999" thinking going in their brains and I don't know why is it so.

The police force as well. Corrupt and poorly trained and short in manpower. Do you guys ever wonder why when we turn on the TV, on the news, we only see Malaysian police raiding KTV with illegal hostess, or raiding massage spa that provide sexual service, or raiding some brothels ? Seldom do we see them chasing thief or pushing back armed robbers.

I don't know why... maybe Malaysia's policemen are only fit enough to deal with woman ?

[acgerlok7]

Aye good point youngyew but we don't get to enjoy that kind of safety level in Malaysia now.

The problem is the people. Malaysians are pretty selfish. They see bad things happening but they don't give a damn. They don't call the police. They don't call the fire department. There's always this "Oh well someone else will call 999" thinking going in their brains and I don't know why is it so.

The police force as well. Corrupt and poorly trained and short in manpower. Do you guys ever wonder why when we turn on the TV, on the news, we only see Malaysian police raiding KTV with illegal hostess, or raiding massage spa that provide sexual service, or raiding some brothels ? Seldom do we see them chasing thief or pushing back armed robbers.

I don't know why... maybe Malaysia's policemen are only fit enough to deal with woman ?

Only by changing the mindset of fellow malaysians and the leaders namely lawmakers and policymakers, then we shall have a prosperous country.. Why Indonesia nowadays is catching up? beacuse their gov finally realise the imnportance to change..if not they will fall backward...Sad to say, malaysian gov namely BN tends to love to stay in their comfort zone, comforting themselves with statistics that malaysian economy is actually progressing.

[Nicholas92]

I like your attitude, but sadly, there are more important things in life to pursue, because I'm pretty sure I won't live long enough to see the day Malaysia change.

Come on now. Seriously we are not so deadlocked by the current situation that change is not possible. I'm not gonna be overly optimistic and just assume 'change will happen!' but neither do I subscribe to the pessimistic 'Oh it's so bad ahhh it's never gonna change' mentality. Looking at the reality of the situation, we are in a much more strategic position to exact change - look at all those Middle Eastern countries rebelling now. We don't even need to resort to that level of protest to change, and we don't even have an establishment strong or organised enough to keep us in line if we decide to revolt. It's just a matter of making that turning point happen - I believe Penang has already done that. It can be done. I'm not saying it WILL be, but I'm saying definitely that it CAN be done, and it doesn't have to take long either.

Aye good point youngyew but we don't get to enjoy that kind of safety level in Malaysia now.

The problem is the people. Malaysians are pretty selfish. They see bad things happening but they don't give a damn. They don't call the police. They don't call the fire department. There's always this "Oh well someone else will call 999" thinking going in their brains and I don't know why is it so.

The police force as well. Corrupt and poorly trained and short in manpower. Do you guys ever wonder why when we turn on the TV, on the news, we only see Malaysian police raiding KTV with illegal hostess, or raiding massage spa that provide sexual service, or raiding some brothels ? Seldom do we see them chasing thief or pushing back armed robbers.

I don't know why... maybe Malaysia's policemen are only fit enough to deal with woman ?

This I agree with. The bigger problem, as I see it, is not the government's inefficiencies or views but the mindset of the people that will screw us over, in the end. As I said earlier, the government we can change. The people, not as easily. If we still have people suing Khazanah because they weren't offered scholarships...sigh.

But then, the answer is definitely not to run away and work outside Malaysia. Change has to be from within.

[Dominic]

The problem is the people. Malaysians are pretty selfish. They see bad things happening but they don't give a damn. They don't call the police. They don't call the fire department. There's always this "Oh well someone else will call 999" thinking going in their brains and I don't know why is it so.



This is actually a psychological issue known as diffusion of responsibility, which happens not only in Malaysia but anywhere in the world.

Diffusion of responsibility can manifest itself:


in a group of people who, through action or inaction, allow events to occur which they would never allow if they were alone. Examples include groupthink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink) and the bystander effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect).
in a group of people working on a task that loses motivation because people feel less responsible and hide their lack of effort in the group (social loafing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_loafing)).
in hierarchical organizations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchical_organization), such as when underlings claim that they were just following orders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders) and supervisors claim that they were just issuing directives and not doing the deeds.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility



A good country is a country where you and your daughter can walk on the street with minimal fear.

Sadly, that is something I can never do because of the laws here. :(




The bigger problem, as I see it, is not the government's inefficiencies or views but the mindset of the people that will screw us over, in the end. As I said earlier, the government we can change. The people, not as easily. If we still have people suing Khazanah because they weren't offered scholarships...sigh.

But then, the answer is definitely not to run away and work outside Malaysia. Change has to be from within.

There are people in Malaysia who don't really care what happens to the country or everyone else as long as their own needs are taken care of. These are the people whose minds we need to change.

[youngyew]

This is actually a psychological issue known as diffusion of responsibility, which happens not only in Malaysia but anywhere in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility
Speaking of diffusion of responsibility, check out this article:

http://www.cracked.com/article_16239_5-psychological-experiments-that-prove-humanity-doomed.html

Read in particular experiment 4 and 3 which illustrates the diffusion of responsibility very well, but the rest are equally jaw-dropping too!

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