Medicine-a lifelong commitment. Are you prepared?

[Hush]

I came across this article in the Star Education dated 6th of June.

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/6/6/education/8143703&sec=education

After SPM, I found it very tough to choose my next move. I did not want to make a wrong decision because it was the turning point of my life. When I got my SPM results, I applied for a JPA scholarship. Well, I did choose Medicine. I did not know the reason. It's difficult for me to explain why. Perhaps, it was the peer pressure in the first place. Secondly, I thought it was a glamorous professsion.

After reading this article, I think I have made the right choice of going for engineering. It's a good article for those who are unsure about what they really want to be, especially those who may wonder if medicine is for them or not.

Think... what makes you choose medicine in the first place?

All the best, guys.

[chenchow]

I agree with Hush, that it is a very important article and I would like to say that it is not only true for medical sector. While I have been a huge proponent of being adaptable, I think that for medical field, it is quite likely that those that take medicine/pharmacy/dentistry etc, will be concentrating on their field.

What i think important is that, no matter what job you are doing, what you are doing affect others, be it doctor, engineer, accountant, salesperson, cashier, civil servant, lawyer, researcher... What you do will actually affects others, and you have the choice of making a positive or negative effect, so do your best!!!

This is an article on Government proposal to solve this issue.
http://recom.homelinux.org:8000/~recom/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=20436#20436

[SHuLy]

to keep the flame burning, a deep-seated interest is required. where does the interest come from? will that interest change or alter with the passing of time?
there are many students choosing medicine as a career, for passion, for interest, and some, for the cash flow in brings in! yes, i have met people with the 3rd reason. but how do we evaluate whether a person is suitable for this line of career? it seems as though of all the courses available, medicine is the one that people actually delve deep into the personality of the person taking it up.

there are medical students who started off passionately about their choice, but somehow, as the years of studying pass, the interest disappears and what is remaining is vague. i've met a few doctors who actually regretted taking up medicine, and a few who would advice their children not to take up medicine. whilst there are many fighting for places at universities, there are many as well who are merely 'pulling thru' just to complete.

medicine is a complicated study. but if one has the interest, passion and of course, capabilities, all complications will dissolve; and a clear solution will unveil.....

good luckS to those still soul-searching for a career path, and congrats to all who have already found their clique!
to those in medicine, undergoing the course or begining your first step, persevere through; it is going to be a life-changing experience..for better or for worst, that is for you do decide since you are the one who will steer the 'vessel'.

[chenchow]

Thanks ShuLi for sharing! May be you can share your personal experience in the field!!! There are a number of medical students hopeful, or those who have already gotten scholarships to do medicine in ReCom!!!

[The_Observer]

I can empathize with this issue a lot. My advice to medicine-crazed secondary schoolers (and...my father's advice to me) :
---Make sure you know what you are in it for!

If you are in it purely for financial reasons, they will be a time when a certain ill feeling will hit you. I won't explain it, but it will happen (unless you don't have any scruples..).

If you are doing it because you wish to help people, you will be rewarded with the best experiences of your life.

If you are doing it to satisfy your parents...I sure would like to refer them to some counselling.


I had always regarded the chance of doing medicine as a privilege that God had given me and it is my duty to do the utmost for His creations.
Its true that this career enables me to live a successful and comfortable life, but there is more to being a human being than just living out this short, insignificant life of ours.
Yes...I am doing this because I wish to serve. I feel no shame in serving others in this power-hungry world for I know I will find my bliss and true purpose in life down this path which God had shown a light on.
Though I may lose sight of my passions later through rocky paths down the road, at least I can proudly say that I did "Make sure I know what I am in it for!"

[Moozy]

The_Observer, how did you truly know that medicine is right for you? I mean, before you chose to enrol in the medical field, you've always known that it's right for you?

[The_Observer]

Let's see...William Osler, a legendary physician once tried to describe essential qualities of a doctor.

1. Imperturbability (coolness of mind)
2. Good natured equanimity (means being nice and cordial)
3. Headstrong aka determined
4. Able to garner the confidence of others
5. Honesty
6. Courage
7. A soft touch
8. Empathic
9. Humble

I summarized the whole thing.
Of course, you can add high intellect, quick-witted, compassionate...etc, etc.

Well, I think I have those traits + the added bonus of wanting to serve. I also happen to know how bad a doctor can be if he doesn't have the qualities above.
From all this, all roads lead to Rome....

[SHuLy]

ah, but i am not medical student nor practising yet chenchow.i'm currently doing a level

i kinda did my homework..asking doctors of different genders and from different places. what i mentioned in my message earlier is what i observed from them and also what they had said.

it is true that you must know what you are about to go through in medicine. but ironically, some people develope the interest only when they are enrolled in the course, whereas some lose interest. but of course, the former situation is more risky.

well, what can i say but this to people who are already 'in' medicine but have yet to discover why they are in it or if their interest is not distinct: either you make swift changes, or persevere through and develope that interest!...it is not impossible to cultivate that 'doctor''s personality (as listed out by the observer) in you. people do change with time..and events

[The_Observer]

That's why we have our clinical years...hmm...but I guess by then its too late to change your decision... /(><)\

Shuly, it will be surprising how many medical students would even consider reasons for doing medicine as much as you do....

[SHuLy]

could you elaborate your thoughts observer?

[The_Observer]

If you ask any medical student...they will tell you that your real training usually comes during the clinical years. Thats the time to test your mettle as a doctor-wannabe. Without adequate or proper motivation, it could be quite hard...

About the 2nd part, a lot of undergrad medical students these days never bothered to delve deeper into the proper conduct, ethics or motivations doing medic...and I find that fact frightening as well as saddening.

[Steppe]

My relative who is a medical specialist from UK told me that the clinical years training were still not enough. Every few months (I think 3 months), the medical students were off to different hospitals for different modules/topics but under the guidance/supervision of the doctors. The real training/testing came during the housemanship when the student was thrown to the real world.

[SHuLy]

heh heh, frankly, i think the entire medicine course is tough and challenging. but most doctors would claim that the one that they 'dread' most is the housemanship years. it is in these years that they are 'tossed' into the 'battlefield' and left to fend for themselves. either you struggle to stay afloat or...sink.

i think that all of this is a phase where all future doctors have to undergo. every step we take is a learning process..albeit easy, or tough. sometimes, in the simplest conversation, we learn something great.

[The_Observer]

Who ever said life was easy...?

Better pray for good teaching doctors and nurses during those 'dreaded years'.
I have heard of plenty horror stories....
Not trying to scare anybody... :D

[Steppe]

What sort of horror stories? Please share.

I have heard of cases where a student have to bring back the corpse leg portion to do the 'assignment study'? and then put the leg under the bed to go to sleep after finishing the study and a student has to boil the head? to get the skull?

[The_Observer]

LOL...not that bad la...though I got a piece of leg for my practical exam 2 weeks ago....<muses>

Example intern/houseman horror story:
Disclaimer: Nothing to do with ghosts.

I have heard of an intern puncturing an artery while drawing blood for a blood test. I guess she pushed too far and too hard...so the patient bled to death...dam sad case.

That's just 1 example...there are more.

[jo_n]

IMO, i dun think it's surprising that not many medi students really consider the reason why they enrol into medicine. why do i say that? that happens too to other ppl who enrol into other courses! people seem to put alot of emphasis on how determined the students r to study medicine, how strong r our minds to survive through the clinical years? all these questions appear coz they want good doctors n want to ensure only those suitable for the job go into these field. medicine always draw alot of attention from the public, from parents' wishes for their children to MMA who concern abt qualities of doctors. have students undergoing other courses receive such heavy supervision n scrutinization (spelling correct? dunno, pls forgive my poor eng) ?
i think it's ok if we dunno the reason, or we dun have the reason to pursue medicine. what is more important, is we make ourselves a better person at the end of the day. we can be good doc or bad one, that i wont comment anything, but it's all up to us.

[The_Observer]

You are right, mate.

Nice to have you on board, jo_n. I was getting rather lonely here. Good to have another medical student here albeit a senior one somemore. Welcome, mate :D
We have ppl coming here to ask questions so I hope you can provide feedback as well if it is not much of a burden, considering you are doing ur clinicals at the moment.

[SHuLy]

i couldn't agree more. to be good, i guess one would simply need to put hard work into whatever one is doing, irrespective of the fields taken.

[pandaboy]

Medical students, are you guys still around here?

Do you guys watch the series "Scrubs"? I know it has a lot of comedy elements in it, but do you guys think it's a good overview of what a medical doctor's life is? I just started watching (only 2 episodes only) but I think it's kinda reflecting what medical students are undergoing. What do you guys think?

[okaywhy]

1. Do doctors conduct researches? or merely treat patients instead?

2. If yes, what kind of researches?

3. How it differs from those biologist, pathologist.....etc?

4. Any local hospitals provide researching facilities?

5. How's the wages of medical researchers in Malaysia?

[tehjiao]

1. Do doctors conduct researches? or merely treat patients instead?

2. If yes, what kind of researches?

3. How it differs from those biologist, pathologist.....etc?

4. Any local hospitals provide researching facilities?

5. How's the wages of medical researchers in Malaysia?

1. yes, they do. dr can choose to be a clinician, an academic teacher, a lab base worker, a researcher

2. any kind related to human health, includes genetic, pathology, pharmacology.....

3.well, with the knowledge of medicine, it's some advantage (probably...)

4. USM, UM (not sure about UKM, UPM and Unimas) has seats for research for dr

5. wages? depends private or government, anyway, an Associate Prof in USM not more than RM 10,000 per month....(and it's not easy to get an A/P!!!)

p/s: nice to see more and more people joining, i rejoin ReCOm by searching by Google as i didn't know it's change the web address..
blur...

[byzhanii_bogn]

I don't mean to offend anybody.

I'm getting more and more frustrated with people who think other to-be medical persuer know nothing about medcine, and that they want to be doctors just for the sake of money or perhaps other reason that is not noble. .

Life-long career, whatever it is, persuing medicine doesn't mean one can only be a doctor. Mind you, becoming a lawyer who deals with hospital cases also requires knowledge in medicine. Or am i wrong that YOU did that YOURSELF because you did not realize you just want to please somebody else?

I do agree, however, that I have a friend, who desperately want to become a doctor, chose an easier path by joining one of those Russian medical university. And to be honest, I think these kind of people do that for the sake of the money. How many do you think doctors nowadays really follow the Appocrates thingy, whatever it is, huh? There's a case in the city i'm living in where some of the doctors in the private sector just push some serious cases to the governemnt hospital, because they're total jerk.

It is a heart-ache, honestly, that SOME people take it forgranted that, they persue medicine, in one way, for the status, for the name, and for the glory. Glory here does not mean being known world-wide or even nation wide, but glory in your own family. Competitions among cousins are relatively common amongst the "kia-su" people. I think, that those who keep on stressing that they persue medicine for the sake of their own passion and all, do have a small thought in themselves, that one day, they're going to be addressed as Dr Whatever. That's the status that i meant.

I won't deny that I'm going for the status myself. But i never thought of persuing medicine as a fulfillment for my parents wish. It is their wish that i could be a doctor, but that's another different story. What brings up my interest in medicine is that i've been exposed to it since i was young. none of my family are doctors, but my grandma had been diagnosed with kidney problem back when i was in pre-school. and i saw how she suffered everytime she went for dialysis. She passed away when i was 8. and recently, my other grandma was admitted to the hospital, for some other internal organs problem. and i was there, i saw the other patients too. neither my dad nor my uncles like the view or the smell of the hospital, for the other patients were attached with tubes and all. but i do not despise it. i didn't know what i felt exactly, but i can guarantee that i have no hatred towards it.

so, do bear in mind that, the proffesion as a doctor is not suitable only for YOU, but everyone else can become that too. Pouring cold water over somebody else is not a good deed, in fact even if it never cross your mind that you're not doing so, what comes out from your mouth might be swords to others. so, THINK before you TYPE.

again, i stressed that i meant to offend NOBODY.

one more thing, for those DOCTORS-to-be in the mere future, housemanship is not as hard as you think it is, unless you never prepared to be a doctor yourself. And, someone who think he's helping but his words kill, is never going to be a good doctor.

I don't aim at anybody, I'm just frustrated at some. No offense and don't blame me if my words themselves hurt, because they're straight from my heart and they went through my mind before they're typed.

[SHuLy]

well, there are people wanting to study medicine for money, but i think that those who want a good income are wiser to opt for another field to obtain the financial gains the easier and faster way, at a lower modal as well...

to be rich, you'll need more than a MBBS (or equivalent) degree. you'll need to have a reputation so that there is a demand for your service..and how do you achieve that??--by being a good doctor.
and perhaps, to a certain extent, it's a win-win situation for both parties. the patient is confident of his choice of doctor for his health, and the doctor obtain monetary gains!


How many do you think doctors nowadays really follow the Appocrates thingy, whatever it is, huh?

it's the Hippocrates Oath. if i am not mistaken, it's more of like a guideline for medical students and practitioners. i don't think it's a law. besides, much have changed since the days of Hippocrates. there is a firestorm of debate pertaining to this matter with issues such as physician-assisted suicide. so basically, i don't think the students or practitioners follows it blindly.

There's a case in the city i'm living in where some of the doctors in the private sector just push some serious cases to the governemnt hospital, because they're total jerk.

the matter here should be clarified further.
it could be that the private hospital which the patient was sent to did not have the adequate facilities to treat his/her conditions. furthermore, they might not have the expertise to do so, as in the specialists-since it is a serious case, and also, the insurance policy of the patient.
i was told by a doctor that this situation arises locally. eg, an accident victim would be sent to the nearest hospital (let say the private hosp is the nearest) and be stabilised before the patient is sent to the govt hospital for further treatment. this is the case, unless family members or the patient (if conscious) request to be treated at the private hospital. again, if the private hospital (and the patient) has the means to do so.

[byzhanii_bogn]

Guess you didn't get what i meant...

[N-Guy]

hahaha....

are you condemning people who opt to do medicine in Russia?What made you say so??Money?

No....for goodness....well,if you're into money...then why not just opt to a diploma or a degree in business and set up your very own business!! if you have the skills i would say you can make lots of money

I think many people who are wanting to medicine are doing for the sake of glamour.Imagine yourself being called a doctor...The amount of pride it brings!! well,if you agree with me.....i would say you won t make a doctor!!

A doctor,in many cases is regarded as a life saver....A good doctor is a person who is utterly satisfied with his noble deed saving lives and bringing cheer into their life

And most importantly we should realize that not everyone could become a good doctor....If you are willing to sacrifice,then you would make up an excellent doctor.Remember,you re dealing with lives.....Its all in your hand...

If you re into medicine .....its a lifelong commitment!!!

[SHuLy]

i think that medicine in russia is OK...

if a person is not admitted into medical university locally or at more glamourous varsities such as Cambridge or Edinburgh, it doesn't mean that he or she is not suitable to be a doctor. many factors are involved here. UK has a quota for the number of international students taking up medicine there. Even in our local unis, the places are extrememly limited compared to those wanting to take up medicine..plus the bureaucracy..

[flibbertigibbet]

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/3/6/education/10321415&sec=education

The link will bring you to an article by Prof Dr Merilyn Liddell, a professor of general practice and Pro Vice-Chancellor of Monash University Malaysia. For those who aim to pursue medicine, it does not hurt to read that article.

[youngyew]

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2005/3/6/education/10321415&sec=education

The link will bring you to an article by Prof Dr Merilyn Liddell, a professor of general practice and Pro Vice-Chancellor of Monash University Malaysia. For those who aim to pursue medicine, it does not hurt to read that article.
I read that article a few weeks back, and it was indeed an enlightening piece for everyone to reflect on. Sadly the link is no more valid as The Star only keeps the copy in its server for 7 days.

There is another touching article (http://changyang1230.blogspot.com/2005/03/touching-article.html)in which a third-year medical student reflects on a life-changing emotional experience. I almost cried when I read it.

[James_Padfoot]

Thanks for posting that. It was a wonderful insight. I am in senior year, sitting for SPM this year. I'm heading in the direction of medicine, and why still tethering on the edges, still a little unsure, I somehow know, and have always wanted since I was 6 to be a doctor.

What do you guys think is the utmost important thing a potential med student should be positive of before choosing this as a life career?

[masdie]

Guess you didn't get what i meant...

I think I know what you're talking about. Many people doesn't understand what it takes to be a doctor. It is more than just a dream. It is very frustrating when people don't understand.

Money and status, the major misconceptions that cloud our minds making us worship this shitty profession. It's saddening to see young people going into this field just for the sake of it. Those idiots!

Something must have hit you hard for you to be saying this. Whatever it is, I'm glad you've realised this. I pity those who're still 'blind'.

[masdie]

What do you guys think is the utmost important thing a potential med student should be positive of before choosing this as a life career?

Many can try to answer this but no one can tell you for sure. You'll have to be sure what you plan to achieve when you are a doctor.

I would personally recommend that you read 2 things:
1) The House of God by Samuel Shem
2) This blog entry (http://doctorslife.blogspot.com/2005/12/sometimes-in-medicine-we-have-this-bad.html)

Doctors are not god. Please, PLEASE do not go to med school just because you like ER, Grey's Anatomy or House MD.

[youngyew]

Doctors are not god. Please, PLEASE do not go to med school just because you like ER, Grey's Anatomy or House MD.
And also 天涯侠医, a very nice Hong Kong drama series.

[James_Padfoot]

Lol, that be pretty idiotic reasons, though I reckon we have a few god se0td doctors because of those shows.

I like watching Medical Investigation, CSI and FBI Files (shown on Discovery), and recently, Scrubs.

Focusing now on Scrubs, I think it's a pretty good show. There's the qualities you long to see, the hardship, the power play, the patients... yeah it's pretty good, although I'm no fit judge. What say you?

And thanks for the reading material ;)

[SHuLy]

-deleted. sorry, don't know how to delete msgs here-

[SHuLy]

What do you guys think is the utmost important thing a potential med student should be positive of before choosing this as a life career?


you gotta have 100% commitment to study medicine and practise..you will not go wrong with that...

if you have doubts whether you like medicine..and thoughts that you might be better off doing something else, in my humble opinion, seriously un-consider medicine..

it takes a lot to pull you through medical school...and more when you get out of it...

-1st year-

Yea ..yea..medicine isn't about big bucks and fame , peer presure or what-so-ever , it's more of personal interest and the passion for doing the job . I always feel passion driveS one to excel . One cannot be happy doing a job that he doesn't like ...for life . So the conclusion is----you have to have passion for what you are doing , sheer enthusiasm to pursue a career in medicine

[James_Padfoot]

*nods* Too true. And yet every day you see doctors where they are at because of so many diverse reasons. Some that one can frown upon, yet they do what they are supposed to, and you can't discriminate them for that. Heh I'm going off tangent.

I wanted to become a doctor as young girl in pig tails and a little coconut tree hairdo. At the age of 17, I still do. For so many reasons, that words cant justify at this time of night.

For simple reasons, like watching a patient smile when you administer an antidote. To hold the patients hand when you tell them there is no hope left, but tell them not to give up, and that you'll try your very best to make sure it isn't painful. That it'll be okay.

And for more complex reasons. Like making sure the same thing that happened to my grandmother (In UM, DAMNIT!) will not happen under my watch. I know I'm not a superhero, but I'll try my best.

So yeah. It's about passion, determination, and putting in little cell to achieveing this, coz' damn it's not easy -____-

[apple_dot]

Actually, i do not know why i choosed medic. When i was young, my friends always said that they want to be doctors, but it never occur to me. I was wondering, why everyone wants to be a doctor? Till i finished my A levels, i was still thinking of working in the corporate world.. dealing with biz.. in multinational corperation.. i applied economics for all UK uni.. and then.. somehow.. i didnt know how i ended up in medic school.. in Malaysia..cause my parents asked me to apply only.. perhaps, i dont really know what i want to study..

But then, my senior always tell me that the passion for medic can be developed, and i believe in that, though i just finished one semester, and, i think it's going fine for me.. didnt really hate those subjects..

But i hope that i wont regret for my decision one day..