New System (10 Subjects in SPM)

[lilynda]

The ministry of education has set the rules that students can only take 10 subjects in SPM starting next year coz there's argument on the JPA scholarship. what do u think about the new system? how are they going to judge a student's performance?

[lesto]

The ministry of education has set the rules that students can only take 10 subjects in SPM starting next year coz there's argument on the JPA scholarship. what do u think about the new system? how are they going to judge a student's performance?

I quote what the other recommers stated in other threads. Limiting the number of subjects aint gonna work if the MOE does not raise the standard of A's in SPM. Imagine if over 10k students scored 10A1's, how are they going to give out scholarships to them? Ko-ku is not a good indicator as you and I know that some can fake their achievements. This is certainly unfair...

[starlemon]

Limiting the subjects in line with raising the standard of exams and revamp the marking scheme would be a good move then.

[lilynda]

true..so i take 12 subjects this year because of the system.i dun know whether i'm lucky or not to be the last badge.

[SapphireDragon]

Personally, like in many other threads that we have debated, I think it all comes down to how stringent and strict we grade SPM exmas, especially awarding an A1. Why can't the Ministry of Education or Lembaga Peperiksaan set a quota to how much A1 scorers a subject has, say the top 5% only will score straight A1. Or better still, scrap the grade system and instead, publish the exact marks we get: 95% or 55%. Then, otehr organisations and JPA will have a clearer view as to who really is the creme of the creme. When we have less straight A1 scorers, then, JPA will be able to afford to award scholarships to almost all of this bright students. There will be less tears, cries of injustice, shoutings from dejected parents, front page news commotion and in a political angle, the people will be contented and stay loyal to the government. A win-win solution, aye?

[youngyew]

I quote myself from another thread:
As some people here have already pointed out, limiting the number of subjects in SPM (without increasing the threshold for A and A1) will only lead to even more trouble. Instead of having difficulty differentiating whether 9A1 1A2 or 12A1 2A2 is better; they will have 2000 10A1 lining up for them to judge. They will have lots of fun.

Anyway, I had a very satisfying debate with ElansarGelmir about this very topic (whether we should limit the number of subjects in SPM) four years ago. Read this thread (our particular debate lasted from page 12 to 17), I strongly recommend it.

http://recom.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1717&page=12
We had an extensive discussion about why limiting it to 10 subjects WILL NOT work.

(without a parallel increase in the threshold of A and A1, that is)

[Miracle_seed]

I quote myself from another thread:

We had an extensive discussion about why limiting it to 10 subjects WILL NOT work.

(without a parallel increase in the threshold of A and A1, that is)If they do not change the grading system, we will end up in another sticky situation, if we just take this year's statistics, assuming same number of students obtaining straight A1s in SPM next year, we will get an appalling number of 1676 with 10A1, which is even a more difficult situation than now, at least for now, judging on paper people still can say that 12A1 stands an advantage over 11A1 in scholarship application, even though I don't quite agree.

However, I think I've read in a news article (sinchew website probably), that they are going to change the grading system as well, using A+, A, A- instead of A1, A2 etc... There isn't any clear indication given though...

[jiacheng91]

considering the case below


BM,BI,BC,SEJ,MORAL << compulsory in my sch(chinese sch)

then those maths, add maths, physics, chem, bio << another 5

what if i wan to take up account? i noe even those who wish to do accounting in the future are not required to take it but accounting rly taught me alot of things, n made some money thru it. its kinda like passion

bt under the new system i cant take it. :(

[zane]

In that case, don't think going to work la. U see right, just this year, how many of us got 10A1s and above?And another A1 in GCE O ? They should increase their standards in syllabus or exam cut off point. That sounds more fair.

[nemosmknimh]

In that case, don't think going to work la. U see right, just this year, how many of us got 10A1s and above?And another A1 in GCE O ? They should increase their standards in syllabus or exam cut off point. That sounds more fair.


i guess this issue just to avoid JPA cases like this year
no one can complain JPA is biased or whatever because everyone got 1o A's maximum....
so there will be no news like im better than you and you better than me

[zane]

i guess this issue just to avoid JPA cases like this year
no one can complain JPA is biased or whatever because everyone got 1o A's maximum....
so there will be no news like im better than you and you better than me

Avoiding is not better than solving the problem anyway. They don't solve the problem!

[kanashibari]

most probably they will change the grading system but may not tell this to the press because, well, if they do, it's like saying that all along, the grading system had been terribly lousy and now they are doing something to imporve it. but of course, they never want to admit this and thus, they just leave this statement out. this is just my opinion.

[music_freak28]

10 is a a bit too little, don't you think? Unless the standards of SPM are raised, good students are gonna feel really bored (not being offensive to those otherwise). To me, they should only disallow redundancy of subjects (Science+Biology+Chem+Physics) rather than limiting a student's potential to only 10??

Or adopt the same grading system like SAM. Provide the true marks instead of just grades. Or adopt like how CAL has its brilliance award and Edexcel has its A star award. Whatever it is, this system has to be modified to differentiate the 10A1s received.

But on the other hand, this may be good for students not to pay too much attention on books and explore their ko-ku side instead. So now ko-ku will make the difference. But then again, nobody said the person with strings of A has no life, isn't it?

[starlemon]

the grading system should change to a better and thus a more recognised one.
Not only that, Malaysian exams be it, UPSR, PMR, SPM, Matriculation should seriously be revamped and relook the matter for the sake of our future generations.

anyone can become the victim of pride, looking at the strings of A1 that most students hold definetely can make a day for them, they feel very happy and indeed proud of their achivements, but don't they think that the grading systems are the culprits that further undermine their potentials..it greatly prevent the tapping of one's potential to succeed in life.

If Malaysian citizens look for further standard elevation in the public exams, a bunch of organisations must be formed in order to review the matter again, just like what the PPSMI does.

[Keiko123]

10 subjects, may cause some incovenience for those who want to take chinese. According to what newspaper has accounted, the core subjects that must be taken: BI, BM, Mathematics, Pendidikan Moral, and Sejarah. The rest subjects, for Science stream students, they need to take Additional Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology, and Physics. Ok, 5+4=9 subjects. There is space for 1 subject left. Chinese, Prinsip Akaun, and English Literature, which subject will they probably choose? Of course is the easier subject and the one easier to get A. Chinese, I wonder how many of them will choose? :(

[zane]

10 subjects, may cause some incovenience for those who want to take chinese. According to what newspaper has accounted, the core subjects that must be taken: BI, BM, Mathematics, Pendidikan Moral, and Sejarah. The rest subjects, for Science stream students, they need to take Additional Mathematics, Chemistry, Biology, and Physics. Ok, 5+4=9 subjects. There is space for 1 subject left. Chinese, Prinsip Akaun, and English Literature, which subject will they probably choose? Of course is the easier subject and the one easier to get A. Chinese, I wonder how many of them will choose? :(


same sentiments. I wonder whether is it a way to reduce candidates to take up chinese as SPM subject. Since it is hard to score and at the same time, this stupid system coming out, hehe, who on earth will take chinese? I don't mean nobody will take it, just the number of candidates taking it will decrease sharply.

[Keiko123]

same sentiments. I wonder whether is it a way to reduce candidates to take up chinese as SPM subject. Since it is hard to score and at the same time, this stupid system coming out, hehe, who on earth will take chinese? I don't mean nobody will take it, just the number of candidates taking it will decrease sharply.

But I read that the Deputy Ministry of Education said that this new system won't affect the number of students to take chinese. How true is it? Nobody will know... Sigh... Fellow chinese, don't forget our mother tongue. If we as chinese don't want to learn it, who else will take over it? :(

[starlemon]

But I read that the Deputy Ministry of Education said that this new system won't affect the number of students to take chinese. How true is it? Nobody will know... Sigh... Fellow chinese, don't forget our mother tongue. If we as chinese don't want to learn it, who else will take over it? :(

i don't think they will allow chinese students to drop chinese as one of their subjects in SPM, particularly SMJK school.

This happens during my time where a number of students tend to drop this subject as a fear of being not able to score A1, however, i don't know how it is afterwards. But according to our principals, mandarin is the mother root of our chinese culture, custom and heritage, thus we should maintain and uphold it. thus we are not allowed and are being strongly discouraged from dropping this language subject.

[Keiko123]

i don't think they will allow chinese students to drop chinese as one of their subjects in SPM, particularly SMJK school.

This happens during my time where a number of students tend to drop this subject as a fear of being not able to score A1, however, i don't know how it is afterwards. But according to our principals, mandarin is the mother root of our chinese culture, custom and heritage, thus we should maintain and uphold it. thus we are not allowed and are being strongly discouraged from dropping this language subject.

Well, maybe for your school can't drop chinese. However, there many other schools out there give students liberty whether to take chinese or not. I'm pretty scared about what consequences will this new system bring. I'm not opposing this system, in fact it's encouraging to limit number of subjects in SPM. However, before implement this new system, it's always better to plan orderly.

[zane]

yeah, for those which are so called" forced to" take chinese, I don't see any change la. But how about SMK? The number of candidates taking chinese now is are decreasing, and with implementation of this system, people who aim for JPA will never take the risk, unless they are very sure of they can get an A1 or they just like their language very much. Practically not many people will take Chinese. Is it a hiden agenda? I don't know.

[usainbolt]

This is will limit a student's potential to perform.

For example, in a race, there will certainly be runners who have the ability to run 10km, and there will be those who can only run for 5km, 3km n maybe 400m.

Well, this 10 subjects idea is just like forcing all those runners who can run more than 5km to only run for 1km. Isn't this unfair ? It will also be harder for the gov to select deserving students for the scholarship. It is easier to choose a 12A1 student over a 7A1 student than to choose the better 1 between 2 10A1 students right ?

2ndly, with only 10 subjects allowed to be taken, subjects such as tassawur islam, chinese literature, tamil literature can no longer be taken by students. I believe there will be a drop in students sitting for the chinese and tamil language.

1. BM, 2. Eng 3. Sej 4. Agama/Moral 5. Maths, 6. addmaths 7. Bio 8. Physics 9. chemistry ....

So, if a science stream student wants to take accounts or economics, or EST, can they stil take chinese, or tamil ?

I'm sure that there are a lot of students who will be taking accounts as this subject will give them more choice when choosing a career in the future. Probably, they might drop chinese or tamil language to sit for accounts. Since there will be a drop in the number of students sitting for BC/BT, there will certainly be an even steeper drop in the number of students sitting for tassawur islam, chinese, tamil, eng literature and EST as well.

Therefore, i don't think this new idea can be accepted by future spm students. I think it is better to make no changes to the system sijil terbuka, open certificate system for the spm exam.

[Boyz_Zoo]

I agree. The main can solve all this problem is improve the standard of SPM. that way, the real smart students can be identified.

[usainbolt]

yeah, for those which are so called" forced to" take chinese, I don't see any change la. But how about SMK? The number of candidates taking chinese now is are decreasing, and with implementation of this system, people who aim for JPA will never take the risk, unless they are very sure of they can get an A1 or they just like their language very much. Practically not many people will take Chinese. Is it a hiden agenda? I don't know.

Zane, i can see dat u're worried with this new system. But lets just hope dat one of the ministers read our post in recom and understand the problems students will be facing ^^

[lilynda]

yeah, for those which are so called" forced to" take chinese, I don't see any change la. But how about SMK? The number of candidates taking chinese now is are decreasing, and with implementation of this system, people who aim for JPA will never take the risk, unless they are very sure of they can get an A1 or they just like their language very much. Practically not many people will take Chinese. Is it a hiden agenda? I don't know.

true..for example, i didn't take chinese because it's the hardest so far and i will not take the risk. With the A2 or B3 in my results, it will certainly ruin the whole thing. After they change the system, i don't think many people want to take chinese.
We didn't forget about our root. It's just we are forced to drop.

[starlemon]

EST and BC are two hardcore subjects that are deemed to be very difficult to get A1. However , why not you guys do something like finding out what is wrong with the marking scheme or perhaps you may want to consult the examiners on the certain criteria to be considered while answering these two papers.

Instead of grumbling about the dilemma of dropping these subjects and the diffuculties lying behind, why not we come out of some constructive steps to improve the skills and the techniques of anwering the questions concerned.
i believe starting to build one's confidence on that particular subjects, esp mandarin would help one to score a handsome result then.

[axreus]

How about SMKA school?? normally, 4 science stream, d students suppose to take 12 subject which is 1. BM 2. Eng 3. Sej 4. Pendidikan Quran Sunnah 5.Pendidikan Syariah Islamiah 6. maths 7. Bio 8. Physics 9. chemistry 10. addmaths 11. Bahasa Arab 12. EST

but now 12 gonna be 10??? how??

[yanno_yamster]

Actually, instead of just 10, I think they should set a range between 10-12 subjects...

[Keiko123]

Actually, instead of just 10, I think they should set a range between 10-12 subjects...

Yea, I think about it too. It's always better to set a range between two limits instead of forcing students must take certain subjects.

[CCY_to_the_top]

im totally against this..what if a science-stream student would want to do economics which can be useful in his/her career??

[yuan_renn]

yeah, for those which are so called" forced to" take chinese, I don't see any change la. But how about SMK? The number of candidates taking chinese now is are decreasing, and with implementation of this system, people who aim for JPA will never take the risk, unless they are very sure of they can get an A1 or they just like their language very much. Practically not many people will take Chinese. Is it a hiden agenda? I don't know.

Yeah it's true, I'm a chinese but I didn't take BC for PMR and SPM. But from what I've observed, many MRSM chinese (I'm a former MRSM student) are very keen on taking BC. Fyi, it's not an easy job for we MRSM chinese to take BC, we don't have BC class and even a teacher to teach us, perhaps some MRSM which has more chinese students will have it but not in my school. Chinese in my school is like rare species, there are just a few of us. And our principal even stop us from taking BC. In contrast, most of my chinese friends in outside school chose not to take BC in SPM:P

[drag365]

How about SMKA school?? normally, 4 science stream, d students suppose to take 12 subject which is 1. BM 2. Eng 3. Sej 4. Pendidikan Quran Sunnah 5.Pendidikan Syariah Islamiah 6. maths 7. Bio 8. Physics 9. chemistry 10. addmaths 11. Bahasa Arab 12. EST

but now 12 gonna be 10??? how??

i agree with that, since i came out from this system, from the agama system, so if we, the science stream student + agama, from 12 subjects, which subjects should we cut off?? many will choose est, but the other one subject??? if you drop arab, then it will cause some problems in syariah n quran sunnah because we need arab to understand the meaning of the ayat in some circumstances... if you drop bio, then you can only move to the engineering part and vice versa if you choose to drop physics....so, the MOE better increase their gradding system... or put a range between 10 - 12 subjects i think.. its not fair to maximise the subject to 10!!! surely, it will limit the students potential

[youngyew]

A limit is pointless if the maximum score is relatively easy to score. What use is limiting it to 10 subjects if we end up having 2000 10A1 students?

As we have discussed in one of the older threads, we basically feel that increasing the difficulty of scoring A1 WITHOUT limiting the total subject will fix the whole thing. A standard recommendation of "10 subjects" could be given. Besides, we can define core subjects and non-core subjects for individual university courses, so that in the cases of comparing people taking different number of subjects, an objective comparison could be done instead of having to deal with "is 9A1+1A2 or 11A1+2A2 better" scenario.

Just think about it - if you make it challenging enough to actually score A1 in 10 subjects, who would want to take the risk of taking more subjects? For example, if we open up the limit of STPM subjects, do you think that many people will take up 9 subjects?

Most people who take up an astronomical number of subjects are doing so in wishing for a higher hope in the rat race of scholarships (unfortunately it kind of backfired in some cases this year). But I believe a number of students might be genuinely interested in learning more things either to expand their knowledge or to explore future career options. By NOT imposing the number of subjects but making the A1 harder to obtain, we are killing two birds with one stone - most people are no longer forced to join the rat race, and people who want to learn more subjects (and have the aptitude to handle the additional subjects) still have the freedom to do so. Hence I believe this is a better solution than the 10-subject limit.

[breakmx]

Well, i think if they wanna limit the number of subjects the should change the scoring system.Rather than judging based on number of A1 or 2s why not make it point based.Somewhat like SAT.would help.i think.that would definately give value to their score rather than just an A1 or such because we don't know the real score.but ultimately that will end up in controversy too.haha

[youngyew]

In any sort of a wide-scale assessment system, the problem with using the raw score directly is that the lack of inter-rater reliability and consistency could easily influence the outcome. In other words, if I get 87 in BM while you get 85, would you conclude that I am better at BM than you? If you and I got marked by the same examiner, than this conclusion could be valid. However, SPM is marked by hundreds, if not thousands of different markers, and each of them have different leniency in terms of awarding marks. Yes there could be some degree of calibration between different markers, but the disparity between marks can still occur very readily. Therefore, if my 87 happened to be awarded by a lenient marker while yours a strict marker, I am not necessarily better than you at all.

In fact, the whole point of having a grade system is precisely due to this consistency issue. By grading people into categories by particular ranges of scores, we can lessen, though not totally eliminate the inaccuracy of raw scores. For example, let's say 81 and above are considered A1 in our BM papers. Therefore, we will be considered about equal in our BM paper - and that assessment would have been fairer, because we just can't tell the difference of 85 and 87 if they were marked by different teachers. I am sure everyone here must have had some experience of the guy next class getting a much higher score than you because they have a lenient teacher, so you should get what I am getting at. :)

What if we have 85 vs 70? 85 would have gotten an A1, 70 would have gotten A2 or B3. That would be fair too because even with some inconsistency between markers, someone with 85 is likely to be much better than someone who got 70.

The only downfall, which is quite a big one, is in the case of the cutting point. Using the sample above, someone who gets 81 would have gotten A1, while someone who got 79 would have gotten A2. In all fairness, the two are quite likely to have been similar, but just because of the cutting point the latter had to be judged as being inferior to the former. That's the unfortunate shortfall of having the grading system. However, this is still considerably better than using the raw score, because instead of having this kind of inconsistency all the time, the inconsistency is reduced to just around that cutting point.

Mathematically speaking, the fairest assessment method would be to introduce the concept of confidence interval. In the context of exam marking, a confidence interval would be a range of score which you would expect someone to get if he or she gets the "fairest" marking. For example, if you know that someone gets 80 in his BM, you could probably use some statistical calculation to show that if he was marked by other markers, he would get the range of scores of, say, from 76 to 83. Then you would say his score is 80 [76-83]. This confidence ratio can then be used in various settings like scholarship etc, and it would have been relatively fair.

Of course we won't be introducing this kind of system. It's too troublesome, and having a result slip full of [XX-YY] doesn't sound as nice as "I got 13A1".

Update: In the case of SAT they made it comparable because they don't have human markers (correct me if I'm wrong).

[breakmx]

I get what you are trying to say.And SAT does have essay parts.There is human involvement for those part.But they try to reduce if not eliminate the consistency issue by averaging the score between two or more markers.Mr. A gives 4/6 while Mr.B gives 3/6.So the candidates score would be 3.5/6.And the total score is then graded to percentile.The higher percentile the better your chances.(obvious fact,sry). Yes this is troublesome & i doubt our government would do anything like that to improve our marking system.They are contented with what already is & i doubt they try to implement western marking or education system.But those system are known for its efficiency to determine whether the person is qualified for a place in a tertiary education institution or otherwise.Well we have to find out after next years results and how the government handles it with truck loads of 10A1s...clearly just cocu alone wont help.Perhaps more practical approach in school like the olden days?...JUst have to wait & see how our government stumbles on new disappoinments.

[Scrmath]

Yea, I think about it too. It's always better to set a range between two limits instead of forcing students must take certain subjects.

I think setting as 12 would be ideal..and a+ grade can b set in 90 marks,and do not follow the normal distribution graph..and avoid some who deliberately take easy sub like seni jz to grab more a1 to gain a tactical edge on securing a scholarship..

as for jpa,i think they should hold tests on related course..for eg,enginering cn test their math and phy,pharmacy tests on bio etc..and announce out our results..quota is ok but not until they push their luck..i think 55 bumi and 45 non-bumi is ok..

in conclusion,those who are in form 3 now,I know it is hard for u later to dcide to drop bc or account,i too not confirm this cuz if u cn enroll to a uni to study account without the need of account in spm(sounds like stupid though:P),then u take bc..

if nt,i don know..but i know this new policy sure would greatly reduce the number of student take bc..

But I read that the Deputy Ministry of Education said that this new system won't affect the number of students to take chinese. How true is it? Nobody will know... Sigh... Fellow chinese, don't forget our mother tongue. If we as chinese don't want to learn it, who else will take over it? :(

it is not really true in my opinion..they jz "talk" only..jz like i tell u that sb with 4 a1 secure jpa!how true is it?

[Keiko123]

it is not really true in my opinion..they jz "talk" only..jz like i tell u that sb with 4 a1 secure jpa!how true is it?

Lol, we are just citizens, never would know that isn't it? I read through the news only, no comment at all, since I don't know how true is it. Unless, he shows the statistics to everyone. It sounds more realistic.

[CCY_to_the_top]

if its true...this is what we call meritocracy in Malaysia...it better be just a rumour..

[nickvl]

I don't agree with the meritocracy thing for JPA....What if so many score 10A1s?? Isn't it back to square one?

And I thought scholarships were for the under privilege ones...

[eddielau]

10 subjects ??i hv a different opinion...
the decision is actually good IF the MOE reduces the core subjects to juz BM n BI.
In our present time n age,liberal education system is needed..SO,i hope the SPM candidates can hv the freedom to choose the another 8 subjects according to their interests.
BY increasing the difficulty of scoring A1,i dun thnk there is anyone would like to take more than 10 subjects as all SPM candidates hv to really n deeply understand the whole syllabus in one subject to score an A1.
if there is a student who takes 12-20 subjects,is it possible that he can handle all that by himself? at least 3-4 subjects whch are nt taught in sch are learnt from tuition classess.
It is juz a waste of money if u r nt really interested for the subject bt juz eager to score one more 1A in spm.And there is only a FEW students who are really interested n excel in more than 10 subjects.
Limiting the subjects taken but widening the syllabus will definitely increase the standard of SPM.Without limiting the subject,how to increase the syllabus?

Try nt to relate JPA scholarship to this...
actually,SCHOLARSHIP means a reward that is given to help the poor for studies.....
scholarships are actually for those who r POOR with excellent academic qualification.Main criteria is POOR bt not good result.
We hv misunderstood the meaning for many years.
SO the MOE's decision to limit to 10 subjects wont affect much on JPA scholars selection.

[youngyew]

Many of us are defining the word "scholarship" differently, but aren't we missing the point if every single person defines it the way they see fit? When an agency or a company provides a scholarship, do you think that they look up dictionary to check, "Oooh, actually my fellow shareholders, scholarship actually means 'helping poor people', so we should give it to the poor people"?

No they don't. Many agencies (though not all) give scholarship as a kind of investment, e.g. petronas who wants the best talent to work for them in the future. They don't care what the definition of scholarship is.

The same goes to JPA. Although it's a government scholarship, it does not mean that they have to look up our dictionary to decide how to give it out. Considerations need to be made for "what is the goal of JPA". And they need to think about people who are excellent, people who are poor, people who are disadvantaged, etc etc. Priorities are then decided based on what they are trying to achieve in giving out the scholarship. They can't just look at the dictionary and say, "the main criteria is poor, so we should give it to the poor first".

And in the end, it depends on what dictionary you are checking. One of the definitions I got is:
A sum of money or other aid granted to a student, because of merit, need, etc., to pursue his or her studies.
(scholarship definition | Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=scholarship))

[eddielau]

I thnk MOE should limit to 12 subjects but not 10 only if there are still 5 core subjects such as BI,BM,PM,MM,SJ ( one more mother tongue subject for SMJK.)
since for the past 2 years,all SPM candidates were exempted from paying the exam fees for 12 subjects,this showed that 12 subjects are the advisory amounts by MOE.
FOR SMJK student,he can take 6 core subjects plus BIO,PHY,CHEM,MT n mayb another 2 interested subjects.IN my opinion,2 extra subjects are enough so students can spend time playing sports..
Those who took more than 12 subjects n scored more than 12 1A,most of them seldom involved in co-cu especially in sports and in uniformed bodies..
They were juz active in co-cu in term of society n participated a lot of competitions such as Math competition,physics,chem n others which are still under academic ..
Therefore,Limiting the number of subjects can giv students more time to involve in sports..

[ayja]

In an interview in the NST, someone said that there's no doubt we ought to give priority to the poor, disadvantaged etc. Just term it as financial aid vs scholarships.

[vseehua]

This is will limit a student's potential to perform.

For example, in a race, there will certainly be runners who have the ability to run 10km, and there will be those who can only run for 5km, 3km n maybe 400m.

Well, this 10 subjects idea is just like forcing all those runners who can run more than 5km to only run for 1km. Isn't this unfair ? It will also be harder for the gov to select deserving students for the scholarship. It is easier to choose a 12A1 student over a 7A1 student than to choose the better 1 between 2 10A1 students right ?

2ndly, with only 10 subjects allowed to be taken, subjects such as tassawur islam, chinese literature, tamil literature can no longer be taken by students. I believe there will be a drop in students sitting for the chinese and tamil language.

1. BM, 2. Eng 3. Sej 4. Agama/Moral 5. Maths, 6. addmaths 7. Bio 8. Physics 9. chemistry ....

So, if a science stream student wants to take accounts or economics, or EST, can they stil take chinese, or tamil ?

I'm sure that there are a lot of students who will be taking accounts as this subject will give them more choice when choosing a career in the future. Probably, they might drop chinese or tamil language to sit for accounts. Since there will be a drop in the number of students sitting for BC/BT, there will certainly be an even steeper drop in the number of students sitting for tassawur islam, chinese, tamil, eng literature and EST as well.

Therefore, i don't think this new idea can be accepted by future spm students. I think it is better to make no changes to the system sijil terbuka, open certificate system for the spm exam. I wonder why would you guys want to take lots and lots of subjects anyway. Is it to bolster the number of 'A's and lengthen your ego as you can get 30A1s at one time? Or is it that people with less than 9As are considered to be less smart than those who get more than 15A? In either case we can't just say that the student with 30A is definitely better than one who only have 9A, not with the current very very lenient system.

im totally against this..what if a science-stream student would want to do economics which can be useful in his/her career??How about attending the class without taking the exam?

In an interview in the NST, someone said that there's no doubt we ought to give priority to the poor, disadvantaged etc. Just term it as financial aid vs scholarships.Priority should be given to those who are more capable and poor. If scholarships can only be given to the poor, we are denying ourselves of the pool of talents that might come from the more well-to-do students.

Consider scholarships as an award. And awards should be given to the best or the best...

In any case, i support youngyew's idea. If the gradings are made stricter, students will naturally take less subjects in order to concentrate more on their core interests (to get higher marks). Say we make the cut off point for A+ to be 95+%. How many students do you think will take more subjects than necessary in this case?

[usainbolt]

attending class without taking the exam?? Then how can a student prove to a company dat he have knowledge in economics ? n how can he take economics in university without havin dat subject in his or her spm ? That is why the subject is needed in spm.

Well, not all students can manage their time well and score well in multiple subjects. Though we cannot say dat a 20A1 student is definately better than a 9A student, we can say the 20A1 student is academically better than a 9A student. Lets say u're working under the human resource department in a well known company, who would u prefer to employ? A 9A student? or a 20A1 student ? Even in jpa's criteria, academic excellence is 75%.

So, scoring more A1 will directly or indirectly shows dat u're a better in terms of academic performance.

A scholarship is an investment, jpa, petronas, shell, all of these companies are investing their money hoping that they can have outstanding employees dat can generate a higher income for the company. Thus, i think a scholarship is not a financial aid but an investment that would highly based on merit.

[Keiko123]

attending class without taking the exam?? Then how can a student prove to a company dat he have knowledge in economics ? n how can he take economics in university without havin dat subject in his or her spm ? That is why the subject is needed in spm.

Well, not all students can manage their time well and score well in multiple subjects. Though we cannot say dat a 20A1 student is definately better than a 9A student, we can say the 20A1 student is academically better than a 9A student. Lets say u're working under the human resource department in a well known company, who would u prefer to employ? A 9A student? or a 20A1 student ? Even in jpa's criteria, academic excellence is 75%.

So, scoring more A1 will directly or indirectly shows dat u're a better in terms of academic performance.

A scholarship is an investment, jpa, petronas, shell, all of these companies are investing their money hoping that they can have outstanding employees dat can generate a higher income for the company. Thus, i think a scholarship is not a financial aid but an investment that would highly based on merit.

It doesn't mean attending class without taking the exam. Should sit for the exam for school level but not in SPM. This applies on those extra subjects but not really neccessary to take up.

I don't quite agree with your bold statements.

What's academically better? Is it meant that a student comprehends about the knowledge learnt in textbooks only but not the common knowledge? Oh gosh, we want well-rounders, not bookworm only. We should have more comprehensive school system, don't just judge on academic result merely. Ones should learn life skills, communication skills and so on.

Scholarship is highly based on merit? Not really, if so, what for there are always interviews in the application process? Then the sponsors can award the scholarships directly to the students without going through interviews.

In short, limit the number of subjects in SPM around 10-12 subjects is advisable. However, at the same time, the threshold, standard of SPM should be improved and increased, the best solution.

[vseehua]

if you want to do economics, then take economics and their related courses. There is no point at this time to take science subjects as well.

Scoring A nowadays didn't mean that you are good in the subject. It just shows that you have what it takes to pass the A threshold. Based on the increasing numbers of people getting straight As these years, we can safely say that the threshold is getting lower and lower by the year.

Guess who's better, the one with 9As but with everything almost perfectly done or the one with 20A but scored 60 points for every paper that he took...

[eddielau]

Do u noe there are how many 13A scorers who do not know how to play sport at all??
Do u noe there are how many 13A scorers who do not know how to do housework like wash plates after dinner?
They hv stressed too much on studies and tried to score a string of 1A's but forget to lead a normal life n healthy lifestyle.
Limiting the number of subjects in SPM around 10 or 12 subjects can reduce this problem..

[Miracle_seed]

Do u noe there are how many 13A scorers who do not know how to play sport at all??
Do u noe there are how many 13A scorers who do not know how to do housework like wash plates after dinner?
They hv stressed too much on studies and tried to score a string of 1A's but forget to lead a normal life n healthy lifestyle.
Limiting the number of subjects in SPM around 10 or 12 subjects can reduce this problem..Sometimes, this doesn't really happen only among the academically excellent students, it's more towards the student's background, you can find spoilt kid anywhere, even though I've seen some parents with the type of education "Your job in the house is to study, we'll take care of other stuff".

[vikraman]

Here's some new information to add to the pool :)

To a question, Muhyiddin said that since there will be 10-subject limit for Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia (SPM) from next year onwards, the PSD would be amending their system to select scholarship recipients.

“If a student gets an A, we have to see if its an A+ or A-,” said Muhyididn, who is also deputy prime minister.

Muhyiddin added that his ministry is open to suggestions and urged critics to submit their views.

According to New Straits Times today, Education Ministry director-general Alimuddin Mohd Dom said that the number of core subjects for SPM have been reduced from six to four, thereby allowing students to choose six elective subjects.

MCPX - Malaysiakini



Four core subjects hmm. BM, English, Maths and? Propaganda A (Moral) vs Propaganda B (Sejarah). Which piece of propaganda stays and which piece goes? We'll wait and see.

[Miracle_seed]

Four core subjects hmm. BM, English, Maths and? Propaganda A (Moral) vs Propaganda B (Sejarah). Which piece of propaganda stays and which piece goes? We'll wait and see.This is really a tough question, if Moral goes meaning Pendidikan Islam will go as well, will they let it? I'm afraid not... On the other hand, what if Sejarah is gone? Then how would they teach the younger generation about their side of history? It's really a huge dilemma....

[Keiko123]

I wonder what is the threshold (range of marks) for A, A+, A-?

[vseehua]

This is really a tough question, if Moral goes meaning Pendidikan Islam will go as well, will they let it? I'm afraid not... On the other hand, what if Sejarah is gone? Then how would they teach the younger generation about their side of history? It's really a huge dilemma....intergrate into BM and BI :P

I wonder what is the threshold (range of marks) for A, A+, A-?
A: 90, A-: 85, A+: 95 points

[Boyz_Zoo]

A: 90, A-: 85, A+: 95 points
come on, what she means is the actual SPM standard for it not the standard that might be used in the school for show.

[Keiko123]

A: 90, A-: 85, A+: 95 points

What?! That means need to achieve 85 and above just can get A? I think you just took the measurement from another type of exam...

come on, what she means is the actual SPM standard for it not the standard that might be used in the school for show.

I guess nobody knows it so far until the Ministry of Education announces something.

[Miracle_seed]

intergrate into BM and BI :P
So, one essay question in BM might be:
Faktor-faktor kebangkitan nasionalisme Tanah Melayu?

Then not only the grammars are taken into account, points must be relevant too? :P

I wonder what is the threshold (range of marks) for A, A+, A-?I doubt the effectiveness of such new system, if the threshold is still the same. The only difference is that we'll see 1676 students with 10A+ instead of 10A1...

[yanno_yamster]

This is really a tough question, if Moral goes meaning Pendidikan Islam will go as well, will they let it? I'm afraid not... On the other hand, what if Sejarah is gone? Then how would they teach the younger generation about their side of history? It's really a huge dilemma....

intergrate into BM and BI :P

I think it would be better if they integrate Pendidikan Moral into Sejarah. After all, we do learn moral values in Sejarah... As for Pendidikan Islam, any ideas?

[Miracle_seed]

I think it would be better if they integrate Pendidikan Moral into Sejarah. After all, we do learn moral values in Sejarah... As for Pendidikan Islam, any ideas?Integrate into the Tamadun-tamadun Islam chapters? I'm sure we have enough chapters for that...

[yanno_yamster]

Integrate into the Tamadun-tamadun Islam chapters? I'm sure we have enough chapters for that...

Ohohoho... As if the present syllabus is not enough... How to cram topics such as the syariah law into the history textbook I wonder...

[axreus]

Integrate into the Tamadun-tamadun Islam chapters? I'm sure we have enough chapters for that...

i think it's better integrate sejarah into BM or English.. much easier...:)

[CCY_to_the_top]

sejarah is important, but they should change the syllabus..anyone studied it will know..

[Scrmath]

Here's some new information to add to the pool :)



Four core subjects hmm. BM, English, Maths and? Propaganda A (Moral) vs Propaganda B (Sejarah). Which piece of propaganda stays and which piece goes? We'll wait and see.

Even though i used to hate sej in the school,but i think sej should b continued and moral would b abolished..i am sure that through sejarah spm,we would have a deeper impression on msia sej etched in our mind..plus,taking sej would be benifited to those who want to pursue law or some other related course as well..as for moral,i don think the benefit of it outweigh the sej's..and last,is that those who get a1 in moral really prove that their moral value is high?haha no offense to those who gt a1:P

[nemosmknimh]

hurmm.......
i was thinking about chinese and tamil papers......
well how about demolish those two subjects but make its own examination
just like its own certificate and maybe it can be certified by any institution....
like i took german examination and the end of form 4 and certified by goethe institute.
same goes to french and so other.........

so instead of having third language in SPM,we can get those certificate by another language exam set by the goverment

[Scrmath]

intergrate into BM and BI :P


A: 90, A-: 85, A+: 95 points

Haha,unless they do not follow the normal distribution graph,or else this marks was just like putting a quart in a pint pot,virtually impossible to reach!I myself only can get 2 A+:cry,feel pitiful to those next generation excellent student..they need to go perfect this time..every subject have to do ample exercise..even math to secure them getting a+

[vikraman]

IMHO moral, sejarah and pendidikan islam have no place being compulsory subjects in a proper education system. Moral because of the obvious problem of teaching "moral values" in class. Sejarah because of two main reasons, the first being that BN sejarah is not actually history its their version of "spin" and the second being that students more inclined to maths and science may not appreciate being forced to memorise and understand facts which are absolutely irrelevant to their functioning in society or in any form of further education. Pendidikan Islam is another topic altogether. It has more to do with the secularisation of government and to the core reason of why my taxpayer money is being used to sponsor the teaching of a religion [censored by youngyew]. If you want to teach Islam, collect a special tax from Muslims and use it to propagate your religion. I have no reason to sponsor [censored by youngyew].

Moderator Warning: Though you are free to express your views on anything including religion, please avoid using incendiary words which will only provoke inflammatory response.

[eddielau]

hurmm.......
i was thinking about chinese and tamil papers......
well how about demolish those two subjects but make its own examination
just like its own certificate and maybe it can be certified by any institution....
like i took german examination and the end of form 4 and certified by goethe institute.
same goes to french and so other.........

so instead of having third language in SPM,we can get those certificate by another language exam set by the goverment

Ya...i agree too..
It would be a better way if BM,BC,BI n other languages are tested separately from spm paper..
These languages can be tested juz lik MUET which include reading,speaking,listening n writing skills AND the result will be printed in other slip or certificate...

Even though i used to hate sej in the school,but i think sej should b continued and moral would b abolished..i am sure that through sejarah spm,we would have a deeper impression on msia sej etched in our mind..plus,taking sej would be benifited to those who want to pursue law or some other related course as well..as for moral,i don think the benefit of it outweigh the sej's..and last,is that those who get a1 in moral really prove that their moral value is high?haha no offense to those who gt a1:P

Yaya...I agree too...
SJ paper should be continued as most student hv to study Malaysia STudies,General Paper or Pengajian Am in Pre-U which are related to SJ.
Abolish Moral paper??
Yes..It should be done but the lessons for moral class in sch should be continued.The situation is juz same as PMR .

[Scrmath]

Ya...i agree too..
It would be a better way if BM,BC,BI n other languages are tested separately from spm paper..
These languages can be tested juz lik MUET which include reading,speaking,listening n writing skills AND the result will be printed in other slip or certificate...



Yaya...I agree too...
SJ paper should be continued as most student hv to study Malaysia STudies,General Paper or Pengajian Am in Pre-U which are related to SJ.
Abolish Moral paper??
Yes..It should be done but the lessons for moral class in sch should be continued.The situation is juz same as PMR .


But the noisiness of moral class would be continued,juz like in pmr..:Palthough my classmate done that too in spm..:nuts

To my opinion,i think that since we are teenagers already,a normal lesson would not make us to become a great moral valued person..in turn,some tcher who teach maybe bio or add math would given an extra job to tch moral,and when that happens,tcher wont be in mood to tch moral as it is not wad they want..although this had happened in my sch even though moral is counted in spm:nuts

[starlemon]

Ya...i agree too..
It would be a better way if BM,BC,BI n other languages are tested separately from spm paper..
These languages can be tested juz lik MUET which include reading,speaking,listening n writing skills AND the result will be printed in other slip or certificate...


I second that..if languages subjects were tested in a different system, i guess it would be stress free for certain students who are weak in languages stream for the whole process of learning.
However, i believe it is very advantageous if the Ministry of Education can consider the resiting exam policy for that language testing exam.Just like MUET , IELTS and SAT.

This will give students time and chance to further work hard to improve their languages.

[youngyew]

Moderator Warning to vikraman: Though you are free to express your views on anything including religion, please avoid using incendiary words which will only provoke inflammatory response.

[eddielau]

I second that..if languages subjects were tested in a different system, i guess it would be stress free for certain students who are weak in languages stream for the whole process of learning.
However, i believe it is very advantageous if the Ministry of Education can consider the resiting exam policy for that language testing exam.Just like MUET , IELTS and SAT.

This will give students time and chance to further work hard to improve their languages.

stress free???
i dun thnk so..
as SPM leavers still need their BM n BI to apply for scholarships n college entrances.
even MUET ,ILETS and TOEFL are tested separately from STPM ,SAT,A-LEVELS,they are equally important as the main exam...
if BM,BI,BC n other languages are tested separately from SPM,10 subjects are definitely enough...

But the noisiness of moral class would be continued,juz like in pmr..:Palthough my classmate done that too in spm..:nuts

To my opinion,i think that since we are teenagers already,a normal lesson would not make us to become a great moral valued person..in turn,some tcher who teach maybe bio or add math would given an extra job to tch moral,and when that happens,tcher wont be in mood to tch moral as it is not wad they want..although this had happened in my sch even though moral is counted in spm:nuts

I dun thnk this prob happens in many institutions.
for upper secondary,most teachers only teach one subject(mayb wiv PJ i think)...only english teachers will be asked to teach EST as well...

noisiness of moral class??
i understand that...it is caused by the boring moral lessons or mayb the bad attitude by the students themselves.
for moral ,it juz test students on the usage of 36 moral values..
therefore,i think the moral paper should be abolished in spm..
PM is juz lik PJ lessons..
can u expect students to hv healthy lifestyle n active in sports if PJ n PK are included in SPM??
It is same to PM...
PM should be tested in other form...
mayb in term of discipline marks or moral project works...

[youngyew]

Moral simply can't be didactically taught or assessed in any meaningful way in a school environment. It could very well be replaced by more meaningful subjects like critical thinking.

[eddielau]

sejarah is important, but they should change the syllabus..anyone studied it will know..

wat do u mean by changing the syllabus??
U mean the Islam topic in history syllabus???
I think it is ok...
SInce we are malaysian,we should know more about malaysia AGAMA KEBANGSAAN.There are many good attitude we can learn from that especially from nabi muhammad s.a.w.
we ought to understand malaysia's history before study the world history..

[youngyew]

wat do u mean by changing the syllabus??
U mean the Islam topic in history syllabus???
I think it is ok...
SInce we are malaysian,we should know more about malaysia AGAMA KEBANGSAAN.There are many good attitude we can learn from that especially from nabi muhammad s.a.w.
we ought to understand malaysia's history before study the world history..
While the Islamic civilisation was indeed an important part of the world history, it's been given disproportionate importance (even with the national religion status of Islam) to the extent that a comprehensive perspective on the world history is difficult, if not possible from our text.

[vikraman]

Missing the point. It's not the content of the history that is the problem, it is the "spin". The inferences that are thrust upon us in sejarah are rubbish. It should be thought in a way in which the students are encouraged to think and come up with their own conclusions based on the facts involved. The story should be presented and students should be left to their own devices to obtain an evidence-supported inference to the story. A good example is how A-Levels History is taught.

World history, especially the history of Europe in the 16th-19th centuries are very, very, very, very (I can't think of any way to stress this further) important to the role of the citizen in a democratic nation. It forms the basis for the relationship between governors and the governed. The state and its current form is entirely rooted in 16th to 19th century and that's where the focus of history should be. That's the bit of history that is most useful to us.

[Miracle_seed]

wat do u mean by changing the syllabus??
U mean the Islam topic in history syllabus???
I think it is ok...
SInce we are malaysian,we should know more about malaysia AGAMA KEBANGSAAN.There are many good attitude we can learn from that especially from nabi muhammad s.a.w.
we ought to understand malaysia's history before study the world history..It's okay to learn a little about Islamic civilization and history. But I think there are just way too much in the new syllabus, and I find it really unnecessary to have that much as we should learn the world history as a whole, not from a narrow corner. I believe many SPM leavers are very ignorant about world history even though they walk away with 90 marks in Sejarah.

Did you realise how much we have on World War I in the textbook? 1 page? Or 1 paragraph? Check back the old syllabus and you'll realise that a large portion of world history has been removed from the new syllabus. It's really a pity to the younger generation, just imagine how would they be looked upon when they go overseas, with little knowledge on world history. In old syllabus, Form 4 Sejarah used to be called Sejarah Dunia, and it did really reflect it. Let's see what happen to the new syllabus, about 5 out of 10 chapters are dedicated to Islam, then another to Malaysia. I'm not against learning Malaysian history, but since almost the whole Form 5 syllabus is dedicated to Malaysian history, why do we need to add in another in Form 4, and not to mention that some part of the syllabus are just the repeat of PMR, do we really need that? How much is the left for world history? 3 chapters? So, we can learn the whole world history in just 3 chapters? That's why I'd say, our Sejarah is their side of history, never from an objective view or approach.

[chenchow]

I would like to turn our discussion a little. While many of you are talking about too many straight A1s and straight As, I beg to differ.

Total SPM candidates are about 400,000. Of which, only about 1,500-2,000 people get straight A1s, which is about 0.5%. And even if we relaxed and look at straight As, it is just 6,000 people, which is 1.5% of our students' base. So, to say that majority get straight As is flaw, since it is just 1.5% of our students' base.

And even if we take all JPA scholarships applicants, that's just about 15,000, which is even less than 4% of total SPM takers.

So, looking from the country education system policy, 96% of students don't even bother to apply for JPA Scholarships. So, I would think that a solid education system should cater to the mass, while taking care to make sure that each segment (academically-inclined, sports-inclined, less fortunate etc) is taken care of.

So, on this move, to move into allowing students to take between 6 and 10 subjects for SPM, a lot would depend on the implementation. If implementation is right, it could be move forward to build a more balanced generation.

Do remember that Malaysia's workforce consists of everyone, and not just those who do well in SPM. Everyone adds into the GDP of the country, and for Malaysia to grow, we need to move up the value chain of majority, and not just minority.

My 2 cents.

[yanno_yamster]

I would like to turn our discussion a little. While many of you are talking about too many straight A1s and straight As, I beg to differ.

Total SPM candidates are about 400,000. Of which, only about 1,500-2,000 people get straight A1s, which is about 0.5%. And even if we relaxed and look at straight As, it is just 6,000 people, which is 1.5% of our students' base. So, to say that majority get straight As is flaw, since it is just 1.5% of our students' base.

I agree with you, and I did mention something similar to this somewhere else some time ago.

[vikraman]

I would like to turn our discussion a little. While many of you are talking about too many straight A1s and straight As, I beg to differ.

Total SPM candidates are about 400,000. Of which, only about 1,500-2,000 people get straight A1s, which is about 0.5%. And even if we relaxed and look at straight As, it is just 6,000 people, which is 1.5% of our students' base. So, to say that majority get straight As is flaw, since it is just 1.5% of our students' base.

And even if we take all JPA scholarships applicants, that's just about 15,000, which is even less than 4% of total SPM takers.

So, looking from the country education system policy, 96% of students don't even bother to apply for JPA Scholarships. So, I would think that a solid education system should cater to the mass, while taking care to make sure that each segment (academically-inclined, sports-inclined, less fortunate etc) is taken care of.

So, on this move, to move into allowing students to take between 6 and 10 subjects for SPM, a lot would depend on the implementation. If implementation is right, it could be move forward to build a more balanced generation.

Do remember that Malaysia's workforce consists of everyone, and not just those who do well in SPM. Everyone adds into the GDP of the country, and for Malaysia to grow, we need to move up the value chain of majority, and not just minority.

My 2 cents.

1) The question of "straight A1's" is truly irrelevant. A case of comparing apples and oranges. It simplifies things too much. So you honestly contend that a student who takes Add maths, Physics, Chemistry, English Literature, Biology, Accounts and core subjects and gets A1's for the whole load is equivalent in achievement to a student who takes Tasawwur Islam, Economics, Accounts, Perdagangan, Seni and core subjects and gets A1's for the whole load. I'm not derogating on the content of Art or Economics as being inferior to Science subjects but at SPM level it's taught so poorly and so shallowly.

2) Looking at a country that uses a proportional system for exam scoring, Australia with the ENTER system. Only if you score 99.90 (meaning you're in the top 0.1% of students) will you qualify for university scholarships. Hell you'd need to score 70.00 (being in the top 30%) to make it to even a bad university. In Malaysia? Truly inferior students make it to university.

3) In the narrow boundary of school subject selections your point of everyone adding to the GDP is irrelevant. That's a question for the greater debate on how to change the education system from top to toe, to encourage a greater probability of students moving up the value chain. Discussed in an earlier topic of international schools vs govt. schools.

[Scrmath]

[quote=eddielau;254251]stress free???
i dun thnk so..
as SPM leavers still need their BM n BI to apply for scholarships n college entrances.
even MUET ,ILETS and TOEFL are tested separately from STPM ,SAT,A-LEVELS,they are equally important as the main exam...
if BM,BI,BC n other languages are tested separately from SPM,10 subjects are definitely enough...



I dun thnk this prob happens in many institutions.
for upper secondary,most teachers only teach one subject(mayb wiv PJ i think)...only english teachers will be asked to teach EST as well...

noisiness of moral class??
i understand that...it is caused by the boring moral lessons or mayb the bad attitude by the students themselves.

[hrixenz]

i do agree with the new system which students can take only 10 subjects in spm..this will increase the quality of the marks because students can concentrate better on their study..also, this new system encourages students to take part in co-cu activities which will produce many well rounder students rather than bookworms...

and due to implementation of the new system..i guess many tuition centres in malaysia will be closed haha :P

[yugenderan]

but still 10as shoud not be the limit~ if got 15k students get 10a1 with moe marking system then how to sort?? either they keep 10 subjects and raise the bars or throw only 10 and maintain as now~~

anyone know bot the pidn offer of JPA??? heard u got to enrol urself in a U or so whatever then only apply?? true isit??sorry wrong thread but cant help it~~

[vseehua]

but still 10as shoud not be the limit~ if got 15k students get 10a1 with moe marking system then how to sort?? either they keep 10 subjects and raise the bars or throw only 10 and maintain as now~~

anyone know bot the pidn offer of JPA??? heard u got to enrol urself in a U or so whatever then only apply?? true isit??sorry wrong thread but cant help it~~You know this is the wrong thread and you still post it because you can't help it? you will get your answers much faster if you do post in the relevant thread.

[Hanqing]

raising the standard of spm will be better...its too easy to get an A1 for now...And this will be a joke for other countries if the amount of A1 students keep increasing =.=

[CabalUchiha]

Do u noe there are how many 13A scorers who do not know how to play sport at all??
Do u noe there are how many 13A scorers who do not know how to do housework like wash plates after dinner?
They hv stressed too much on studies and tried to score a string of 1A's but forget to lead a normal life n healthy lifestyle.
Limiting the number of subjects in SPM around 10 or 12 subjects can reduce this problem..

Not exactly, none of us really know the exact number. Scoring 13A1s wont really stress u too much on studies until the stage where u can forget about sports and your health. I bagged a silver medal once in the district badminton competition, represented state for drama, and most importantly, i know how to wash plates, iron my clothes n hang my clothes, haha ..

I think ccy_to_the_top would disagree with your statement 'They hv stressed too much on studies and tried to score a string of 1A's but forget to lead a normal life n healthy lifestyle.' as well. Rite ccy_to_the_top?? U can iron ur clothes rite ? hehe

[usainbolt]

if you want to do economics, then take economics and their related courses. There is no point at this time to take science subjects as well.

Scoring A nowadays didn't mean that you are good in the subject. It just shows that you have what it takes to pass the A threshold. Based on the increasing numbers of people getting straight As these years, we can safely say that the threshold is getting lower and lower by the year.

Guess who's better, the one with 9As but with everything almost perfectly done or the one with 20A but scored 60 points for every paper that he took...

Well, some of us are not really sure about what we want to do yet at that age. That is also one of the reasons why science stream students are taking accoutings and economics. I have quite a number of friends who are studying accountings now. So, one of the requirements for their admission is the subject (accountings or economics) in their spm result slip. That is why taking economics or accountings can offer science stream students more career choices.

[yanno_yamster]

I agree with usainbolt. I myself still couldn't decide whether to pursue science related career or accounting career until early this year.
I love Science and was a Science stream student but I took accountings for SPM partly because I'm also interested in that subject; partly because having some accounting skills can be helpful in the future and partly because I might want to ultimately pursue the accounting career.
Finally, I chose to pursue accountings for practical reasons.

[CCY_to_the_top]

Do u noe there are how many 13A scorers who do not know how to play sport at all??
Do u noe there are how many 13A scorers who do not know how to do housework like wash plates after dinner?
They hv stressed too much on studies and tried to score a string of 1A's but forget to lead a normal life n healthy lifestyle.
Limiting the number of subjects in SPM around 10 or 12 subjects can reduce this problem..

eddie eddie...wake up plz

u know what, the fact doesnt really apply to all of us, at least not to me..dont tell me that u know how to iron ur cloths and i dont even know how to wash dishes...

FYI, since form 1, i studied in MRSM and happily mixing around with Malays while u are still mixing around with your chinese friends in your 99% chinese school..independent huh??..dont tell me i dont know how to iron my cloths, i can show u how i burned my hand in form1 since the scar will never go away..

and you think only 10A students play sports?? WTH, taking lots of subject doesnt mean it's an unhealthy lifestyle..as long as i can cope with it, and live with it, and happy with what i have learned..who cares?? and im not stress up studying all those extra subjects..im stress only when i realized that i can do more than that but i didnt do it. (might consider taking 17 subjects)..

and who really cares if the subject you take is not relevant to ur career?? as long as i think it might be useful for me to know more, i will do it...and taking econs or account may be beneficial to a doctor or an engineer...u will never know..

[Miracle_seed]

and who really cares if the subject you take is not relevant to ur career?? as long as i think it might be useful for me to know more, i will do it...and taking econs or account may be beneficial to a doctor or an engineer...u will never know..
You might have a point there, but what do you think about taking Science while having Biology, Chemistry and Physics?

[duke23]

i hate to say this but the whole trend of taking many subjects started in the year 2000 with the doofu won ton mee seller's son taking 12 subjects and he totally lucked out. striking all a1's.he got so much of attention and cash rewards..and even gained entry into MIT with his not up to par SAT scores...i have also heard from his teachers that he was in the first class but definitely not in the top 15 in form 5....but he became the top student in the country(maybe world)..ever since that..there are a lot of genuinely good students who take many more subjects and get these many a1's so it has become quite a racket actually...

[Sillyboy]

i hate to say this but the whole trend of taking many subjects started in the year 2000 with the doofu won ton mee seller's son taking 12 subjects and he totally lucked out. striking all a1's.he got so much of attention and cash rewards..and even gained entry into MIT with his not up to par SAT scores...i have also heard from his teachers that he was in the first class but definitely not in the top 15 in form 5....but he became the top student in the country(maybe world)..ever since that..there are a lot of genuinely good students who take many more subjects and get these many a1's so it has become quite a racket actually...

To add salt to the wound, theres] was this girl from Kuan Cheng (correct me if I am wrong!) girl's school who sparked this craze of taking more than 11 subjects. If memory serves, she obtained 16As for her SPM, 15A1 and one A2.

[vseehua]

To add salt to the wound, theres] was this girl from Kuan Cheng (correct me if I am wrong!) girl's school who sparked this craze of taking more than 11 subjects. If memory serves, she obtained 16As for her SPM, 15A1 and one A2.I think this happened during my year.

Well, some of us are not really sure about what we want to do yet at that age. That is also one of the reasons why science stream students are taking accoutings and economics. I have quite a number of friends who are studying accountings now. So, one of the requirements for their admission is the subject (accountings or economics) in their spm result slip. That is why taking economics or accountings can offer science stream students more career choices.Well, you should at least know where your inclination is at this point of time. I took my subjects precisely because I love doing things related to science, and I know accounting is something that I can learn about part time (through books or part time courses) at a future point in life.

What really irks me up is that some students resort to taking general science in addition to physics, chemistry and biology or those who took multiple other subjects that overlap on each other

[eddielau]

eddie eddie...wake up plz

u know what, the fact doesnt really apply to all of us, at least not to me..dont tell me that u know how to iron ur cloths and i dont even know how to wash dishes...

FYI, since form 1, i studied in MRSM and happily mixing around with Malays while u are still mixing around with your chinese friends in your 99% chinese school..independent huh??..dont tell me i dont know how to iron my cloths, i can show u how i burned my hand in form1 since the scar will never go away..

and you think only 10A students play sports?? WTH, taking lots of subject doesnt mean it's an unhealthy lifestyle..as long as i can cope with it, and live with it, and happy with what i have learned..who cares?? and im not stress up studying all those extra subjects..im stress only when i realized that i can do more than that but i didnt do it. (might consider taking 17 subjects)..

and who really cares if the subject you take is not relevant to ur career?? as long as i think it might be useful for me to know more, i will do it...and taking econs or account may be beneficial to a doctor or an engineer...u will never know..

I mean MANY nt ALL...i cant deny that there muz be someone who is in exceptional case( excellent in academic n sport n noe how to do housework )
U juz look at ur upper secondary schoolmate who score more than 12A.
most of them are juz a lik prince at home..they only do homework n study at home bt nt housework...U are right,some of them even do not how to wash plates..

".and taking econs or account may be beneficial to a doctor or an engineer...u will never know"
I agree with that...but for those who want to study medic or engineering, they should read the more books about medicine or mayb learn the AUTOCAT programme for engineering which are more useful for them but not take the subjects which are less useful...
Do not tell me that one can read all the books about medic...

How about if too many science excellent students takes econs n accounting??
Econs and Accounting are usually for Act stream students who are usually weaker than science stream students.IM nt saying all...There are still some excellent students in Arts streams..
With the rating system using graph for SPM grade,if too many science excellent student takes econs n accounting,it will definitely affect Arts stream students' SPM result...
Even we change the rating system,the prob will still exist..
If U as the manager or director of a private company,will u hire a 13A science student(include econ n accounting) or a 9A arts stream student ( include econ n accounting)???
i dun think u will choose the arts stream student.
If this happens for many cases,who wan to study in arts stream?
Whats the reason why MOE wan to divide students into science n arts?
I agree with Limiting of the number of subjects taken.

[Bunga]

I agree that the limit shud be a range of 10 till 12. I mean, we have to take into consideration those from SMKA n some students who wish to take accounting or economics. In addition, the standard should be raised. Not many who get A1 for english SPM get A1 for GCE O-Levels. Doesnt this show how different the standards are? Many who get so many A1s end up not dng so well in universities. During my interview for JPA, the interviewer asked my opinion on our Malaysian SPM standard. A real wierd ques to ask for he asked the others something to do with the course. So I guess the government already had plans to make this big move.

[CabalUchiha]

I mean MANY nt ALL...i cant deny that there muz be someone who is in exceptional case( excellent in academic n sport n noe how to do housework )
U juz look at ur upper secondary schoolmate who score more than 12A.
most of them are juz a lik prince at home..they only do homework n study at home bt nt housework...U are right,some of them even do not how to wash plates..

".and taking econs or account may be beneficial to a doctor or an engineer...u will never know"
I agree with that...but for those who want to study medic or engineering, they should read the more books about medicine or mayb learn the AUTOCAT programme for engineering which are more useful for them but not take the subjects which are less useful...
Do not tell me that one can read all the books about medic...

How about if too many science excellent students takes econs n accounting??
Econs and Accounting are usually for Act stream students who are usually weaker than science stream students.IM nt saying all...There are still some excellent students in Arts streams..
With the rating system using graph for SPM grade,if too many science excellent student takes econs n accounting,it will definitely affect Arts stream students' SPM result...
Even we change the rating system,the prob will still exist..
If U as the manager or director of a private company,will u hire a 13A science student(include econ n accounting) or a 9A arts stream student ( include econ n accounting)???
i dun think u will choose the arts stream student.
If this happens for many cases,who wan to study in arts stream?
Whats the reason why MOE wan to divide students into science n arts?
I agree with Limiting of the number of subjects taken.

Its not really an exceptional case la. My 12A1 fren is the captain of my skul's basketball team. And my good fren (12A1) has been dominating the mssk tennis (state lvl tennis competition) since she was form 1. Scoring 12A1,13A1 or 14A1 does not make someone imperfect. We do not nid to spend 90% of our lives studyin to get such results. It actually depends on individuals and also on how their family background.
See, most of us (i mean my frens around me) are not that nerdy.

In the working sector now, it is better to have knowledge in economics or accounting. These 2 subjects is beneficial. For example, Intel would certainly prefer an engineer with qualifications in economics over a normal engineer with just a degree. So, thats where the A1 in the spm result slip comes in.

eddie, u took accounts right?? if i'm not mistaken.....

[CCY_to_the_top]

You might have a point there, but what do you think about taking Science while having Biology, Chemistry and Physics?

i know taking science is something stupid..but u see, if u are a SPM candidate and u are given the choice to take up any subjects, why not taking another science to help make ur result slip look nicer?? i know taking science is pointless, but it might help u survive better in Malaysia..this is the flaw in the Malaysia education system, u cant blame all those Science stream students who take science..its just not fair..what they are doing is to ensure that they get a nicer looking result slip, that might or might not help them in their future..

so if u are saying this, why dont u say that students can drop Maths if the pick up additional Maths? FYI, i spend more time studying accounts compare to maths..so why not drop maths???

[Miracle_seed]

so if u are saying this, why dont u say that students can drop Maths if the pick up additional Maths? FYI, i spend more time studying accounts compare to maths..so why not drop maths???Okay, I think you sound a little too defensive. After all, Maths is an compulsory subject that nobody is allowed to drop.

Actually Mathematics is a bridge in between PMR Maths and Additional Maths, there are some stuff we just skipped in Additional Maths because they are taught in Maths. However, frankly, with Additional Maths, perhaps Maths is of little value. It's possible that Maths is now on the chopping block for core subjects...

[CCY_to_the_top]

I mean MANY nt ALL...i cant deny that there muz be someone who is in exceptional case( excellent in academic n sport n noe how to do housework )
U juz look at ur upper secondary schoolmate who score more than 12A.
most of them are juz a lik prince at home..they only do homework n study at home bt nt housework...U are right,some of them even do not how to wash plates..

".and taking econs or account may be beneficial to a doctor or an engineer...u will never know"
I agree with that...but for those who want to study medic or engineering, they should read the more books about medicine or mayb learn the AUTOCAT programme for engineering which are more useful for them but not take the subjects which are less useful...
Do not tell me that one can read all the books about medic...

How about if too many science excellent students takes econs n accounting??
Econs and Accounting are usually for Act stream students who are usually weaker than science stream students.IM nt saying all...There are still some excellent students in Arts streams..
With the rating system using graph for SPM grade,if too many science excellent student takes econs n accounting,it will definitely affect Arts stream students' SPM result...
Even we change the rating system,the prob will still exist..
If U as the manager or director of a private company,will u hire a 13A science student(include econ n accounting) or a 9A arts stream student ( include econ n accounting)???
i dun think u will choose the arts stream student.
If this happens for many cases,who wan to study in arts stream?
Whats the reason why MOE wan to divide students into science n arts?
I agree with Limiting of the number of subjects taken.

ya, u are right, company prefers science stream students than art stream students..so if u are trying to say that taking up art subject should not be encouraged because it kill off others opportunities, then what opportunities do you give urself??? this is not the matter of morality or what-so-ever..this is about equipping urself with more knowledge and be better than others..and not everyone opt for the tougher science stream courses.

e.g., 2 student applying to Cambridge university for medicine course...student1 scored A in Bio Chem Math..Student2 scored A in Phy Chem Math..and you know what? Cambridge will prefer student with physics than biology..btw, bio is not a requirement..you dont need to know your bio to be a doctor..does this scenario applies here too?? Cambridge choose the person with physics because they think that they have greater analytical skill..in SPM, if u take 15 or 16 or 17 subject doesnt it makes u more versatile?? doesnt it makes u standout among others for having knowledge in econs, accounts and perdangagan?? and to clear things up, econs is not how to earn money and its not business..it helps in making decisions wisely considering all factors internally and externally. and for accounts, who know u are setting up ur own business or investing in stock market which will be good if u know how to read all the annual reports??

Okay, I think you sound a little too defensive. After all, Maths is an compulsory subject that nobody is allowed to drop.

Actually Mathematics is a bridge in between PMR Maths and Additional Maths, there are some stuff we just skipped in Additional Maths because they are taught in Maths. However, frankly, with Additional Maths, perhaps Maths is of little value. It's possible that Maths is now on the chopping block for core subjects...

ya, i agree to removing this subject from the core subjects list..it's easier than any other subjects, including science, which basically you only spend 30minute reading it..and add-maths is not that tough too, looking at the fact that u only need at least 70 for an A1..and a double digits to pass it..

[Bunga]

Maths and additional maths are totally different...Its unlike science, which is the combination of bio,phy and chem. Maths is already made compulsory, and I guess the gov would have had a good reason to make that compulsory and not science ryte? this jus shows there is some difference whereby u need maths as a strong basic to do well in your add maths.

[usainbolt]

Yea, if u put it dat way, why not somebody suggest the idea of not taking maths ? If u say a student who took the 3 sciences then he should not sit for the general science paper, can u tel a student who sit for add maths to not take for maths? Yes, i know dat maths cannot be drop, i'm juz givin an example.

science can also give u a gud foundation for chem, physics n bio as well.
Science requires reading n revising ! while maths on the other hand, just requires 30 mins of reading before the exam. Bcoz for maths, once u master the technique, everything is easy. And, maths is indeed the easiest subject in the spm exam

[eddielau]

Its not really an exceptional case la. My 12A1 fren is the captain of my skul's basketball team. And my good fren (12A1) has been dominating the mssk tennis (state lvl tennis competition) since she was form 1. Scoring 12A1,13A1 or 14A1 does not make someone imperfect. We do not nid to spend 90% of our lives studyin to get such results. It actually depends on individuals and also on how their family background.
See, most of us (i mean my frens around me) are not that nerdy.

In the working sector now, it is better to have knowledge in economics or accounting. These 2 subjects is beneficial. For example, Intel would certainly prefer an engineer with qualifications in economics over a normal engineer with just a degree. So, thats where the A1 in the spm result slip comes in.

eddie, u took accounts right?? if i'm not mistaken.....


Of course there are many students who r excellent in studies n sports as well...
but among the 12A's scorers or above,only a few who know how to ho housework and excel in sport....
We should focus on the majority which covers a bigger amount...

thats y it will kill other ppl opportunity...
some schools do not allow their students to take extra subject or the extra will nt be taught even the students are smart enough...
They may not rich enough to attend tuition classes..
so,do u think it is fair for them??
Science stream students juz take science subjects n art stream students take econ n accounting...

[nemosmknimh]

hurmmmm.....
i guess we better stick to our stream........
why would bother taking art stream subjects when you are a science stream students??
if this is prefered by the company,why the hell those international pre-uni programs only stick to one stream???

[eddielau]

ya, u are right, company prefers science stream students than art stream students..so if u are trying to say that taking up art subject should not be encouraged because it kill off others opportunities, then what opportunities do you give urself??? this is not the matter of morality or what-so-ever..this is about equipping urself with more knowledge and be better than others..and not everyone opt for the tougher science stream courses.

e.g., 2 student applying to Cambridge university for medicine course...student1 scored A in Bio Chem Math..Student2 scored A in Phy Chem Math..and you know what? Cambridge will prefer student with physics than biology..btw, bio is not a requirement..you dont need to know your bio to be a doctor..does this scenario applies here too?? Cambridge choose the person with physics because they think that they have greater analytical skill..in SPM, if u take 15 or 16 or 17 subject doesnt it makes u more versatile?? doesnt it makes u standout among others for having knowledge in econs, accounts and perdangagan?? and to clear things up, econs is not how to earn money and its not business..it helps in making decisions wisely considering all factors internally and externally. and for accounts, who know u are setting up ur own business or investing in stock market which will be good if u know how to read all the annual reports??



ya, i agree to removing this subject from the core subjects list..it's easier than any other subjects, including science, which basically you only spend 30minute reading it..and add-maths is not that tough too, looking at the fact that u only need at least 70 for an A1..and a double digits to pass it..

"this is about equipping urself with more knowledge and be better than others"If too many science students take the econ n accounting paper in SPM,u will kill other opportunity....
if u juz wan to juz equip with more knowledge,u can juz study without taking the papers in SPM...By the way,U will hv the knowledge too,juz without the cert.

for ur example two,i think it would be a prob too...
to enter UK university,we hv to take STPM or A-level or other pre-u course...For STPM,there are many schools which do not allow their students to take bio with phy...and this is no the prob related to limiting of SPM subjects taken as for SPM , science students usually hv to take bio,phy n chem...
AS u told,Cambrigde choose the students(A in phy,chem n math) bcoz think that they have greater analytical skill..yes..they hv to study phy for medicine course for 1st semester...but wat is purpose for taking econ and accounting??? Does not nid these requirements to study medic course .
this is about equipping urself with more knowledge???THen will back to 1st answer...

[eve88]

hurmmmm.....
i guess we better stick to our stream........
why would bother taking art stream subjects when you are a science stream students??
if this is prefered by the company,why the hell those international pre-uni programs only stick to one stream???

Hm.. apparently Singapore is going the opposite direction then.. they're insisting every Singapore A Level student take a contrasting subject. (All arts take at least 1 science and vice versa)

[eddielau]

hurmmmm.....
i guess we better stick to our stream........
why would bother taking art stream subjects when you are a science stream students??
if this is prefered by the company,why the hell those international pre-uni programs only stick to one stream???

haha..yaya...
for Disted college,the students can only choose either science or arts class...
Science students are free to take any subjects in science but nt even one in art...

[Miracle_seed]

Anyone interested to send their opinions to the education director (sorry I'm not sure if I've translated it correctly)? According to Sinchew news (http://www.sinchew-i.com/node/96220?tid=3), you're welcomed to send in the opinion regarding the 10-subject limit through fax ( 03-88894548 ) or email to alimuddin.dom@<hidden>, as the policy is not yet finalised.

[youngyew]

With regards to some comments suggesting that a science + accounting student being advantageous in future job interview compared to science-only student: This is not quite true. The employers would much rather assess you by your confidence and your competence in the interview itself rather than what subject you took in a paper in SPM.

[Athersin]

I doubt do most employers look on your SPM result while interviewing you for a job?

[eddielau]

suddenly feel that the more the subjects taken in spm,the higher the chance u get JPA scholarship....
this make me agree 100% on limiting the SPM subjects..

[Miracle_seed]

suddenly feel that the more the subjects taken in spm,the higher the chance u get JPA scholarship....
this make me agree 100% on limiting the SPM subjects..It has always been the case, and even it didn't hold true in earlier application this year, it's still undeniably correct in the appeal.

By the way, regarding the subject-combination-make-competent matter, I've heard of a "pasar talk", that some experience employers in engineering company give a comment that many distinction graduates don't really do a great job, compared to non-distinction graduate. It's quite a generalisation, but I think it's partly true because many distinction students are book-smart...

[CCY_to_the_top]

suddenly feel that the more the subjects taken in spm,the higher the chance u get JPA scholarship....
this make me agree 100% on limiting the SPM subjects..

u should have know that during your form4 life..finally, u agreed with me..but anyways, good luck in your life...everythg happens for a reason~

[CabalUchiha]

Of course there are many students who r excellent in studies n sports as well...
but among the 12A's scorers or above,only 10-15% who know how to ho housework and excel in sport....
We should focus on the 85-90% which covers a bigger amount...

thats y it will kill other ppl opportunity...
some schools do not allow their students to take extra subject or the extra will nt be taught even the students are smart enough...
They may not rich enough to attend tuition classes..
so,do u think it is fair for them??
Science stream students juz take science subjects n art stream students take econ n accounting...

Where did u get those facts n figures from ?? I dun think there is any survey asking whether a 12A student know s how to do housework n excel in sports. No offence but pls dun give us misleading information dat have yet been proven by any institution.
Not all science students who take accounts and economics attend tuition classes. Though those subject are not taught at skul, some students can learn the subject on their own. I'm pretty sure there is quite a number of science stream students here who can study accounts and economics without attending tuition classes.

Like usainbolt said, there are students in form 4 n 5 who are stil uncertain about wad dey wan to study next. So, havin accountings n economics can offer them more choices. In fact, there is quite a number of science students who end up studyin accountings.

Eddie, u took accounts ? I think ur a science stream student. Correct me if i'm wrong

[sonatinalai]

In my own experience, I personally feel that scoring strings of 1A doesn't guarantee any 'academic excellence', despite of the number of subjects you take.

Consider the following cycle.

Students want to get scholarships.
JPA by norm award scholarships to students with more 1A.
So Students take more subjects to get more 1A.
It is relatively easy to score 1A in SPM.
So too many students getting too many 1A.
JPA can't award all scholarships to too many straight 1A scorers.
Students disappointed at not getting scholarships.
Tell juniors to take more subjects to increase chances.
Students take more subjects.

That's it, it repeats for infinite times until a revamp is done on the system.
That being said, if you put a limit on 10 subjects, then it will still cause the same problem, because 'too many students getting 10 1A' will lead to 'JPA can't award all scholarships to too many students scoring 10 1A'.

The condition will only improve if one of the following is done, or at least taken into consideration:
1. Revamp the marking criteria, eg. set a higher standard paper, stricter schems, or give 'S' paper which aims for more able candidates (but maybe too costly at SPM level, STPM would be more appropriate)
2. Limit the number of students getting distinction grades (eg. top 10 % to get A+)
3. Limit the number of subjects of the same field (eg. not more than 4 science and maths subjects) to avoid ppl taking Chem, Bio, Phys with Science and Add Science
4. Reveal the results/performance of existing scholars getting JPA scholarships
5. This is a totally different approach: DO NOT AWARD scholarships at SPM level.

Why not awarding scholarships at SPM level?
1. standard of SPM is not recognisable at international level. You can get an A in English, but it is not an A in the standard of UK/US. Not convinced? Take a 'O' level English paper and do. You will know the difference.
2. Students are less likely to know what they are going to study at University right after SPM. This is evident in some students wish to change their course after they have applied to JPA scholarships. It is more plausible to award scholarships to STPM leavers/ A-levels leavers (or UEC!)

That's my personal opinion anyway. Feel free to comment on my opinions.

[Athersin]

i dont think limiting the subjects of SPM help in any aspects! we are not looking at how many subjects a student take and measure the no of subjects to their ability and priviledge to secure JPA scholarships etc.

There are actually 3 types of educations, most of us just receive school or professional education but we do not receive enough Financial Education.

It is this education that will teach us how to make money, save money, invest money and financial planning for future.

Don't you think this Financial Education is of paramount important?

According to Robert Kiyosaki, author of bestseller ‘Poor Dad and Rich Dad’, we were not taught financial literacy in school, it takes a lot of work and time to change our mindset and become financially literate.

Again, majority of people that we encounter have a SECURE MINDSET( Like to work for others). That is why it is very important for us to seek out people with a freedom mindset to encourage us on our financial journey towards TRUE FREEDOM.

For example, if you dream to climb the highest mountain Everest, whose advice should u seek? Surely we should seek advice from climber who has succeeded to conquer the mountain.

However, when it comes to financial matter, we tend to listen to advice from people who are mostly still at the base of mountain. True enough??

Again the question arises, is it our existing education system able to produce young generation with good financial education not just only excel in ordinary school or professional education ???

In Malaysia, there is surely more employers. How about unemployment rate? Who is to be blamed? Why cant young generation be more self-dependent?

We can provide answer to above questions easily enough.

Does our Education System provide complete Education to young generation? A string of As can determine our future success?

Think and think again!!!!!!

[eddielau]

Where did u get those facts n figures from ?? I dun think there is any survey asking whether a 12A student know s how to do housework n excel in sports. No offence but pls dun give us misleading information dat have yet been proven by any institution.
Not all science students who take accounts and economics attend tuition classes. Though those subject are not taught at skul, some students can learn the subject on their own. I'm pretty sure there is quite a number of science stream students here who can study accounts and economics without attending tuition classes.

Like usainbolt said, there are students in form 4 n 5 who are stil uncertain about wad dey wan to study next. So, havin accountings n economics can offer them more choices. In fact, there is quite a number of science students who end up studyin accountings.

Eddie, u took accounts ? I think ur a science stream student. Correct me if i'm wrong

it is a rough figure where i get from few schs in my district.....
From my school,there are 9 persons get 13 A's n 1 person gt 14A's...none of them do housework and as well as good in sports...they cant do equally well for both but only either one or mayb neither.
School B(can't mention the name),12 persons gt 13A''s and above ,only 1 of them do housework AND good in sport..Similar stastictic values oso get from another 3 schools..
mayb it is nt correct for all school whole malaysia....but i dun think it will be a large different from the actual value..If we limit the subject taken to 10-12,the candidates will hv time to play sports n do housework...Mayb it is nt a main reason for them nt to play sport n do housework as there are still many factors lik family background n attitude themself..

R u sure there is quite a number who took accounts but without attending tuition class even the subject was nt taught in sch??
SPM 2008 account paper 2 is quite hard so i dun think they can do well if they did not attend tuition class or hv guidance from sch teacher after sch....and it would be unfair for those school which dun hv any account teacher to ask question....
Even they did not attend tuition class for account,i think they attend tuition for other subjects??am i right???Y din they saved their money n juz pay more attention on those important subjects n not trying to challenge a new subject which are nt taught at sch....
Correct me if im wrong...

Taking more subjects is just an advantange for those who good in English,CHinse,maLay,Islam,Arts,memorizing and calculating..
for english they can take English in literature.
for Chinese they can take Kesusasteraan CIna..
for Calculating,accounts.
for Memorizing ,perdagangan..
How about those students who really good in Math ???
Any Furthermaths for them and so on...
any IQ paper for those hv high IQ??
If we limit the subjects taken,it would be fair for every single student...

If we limit the subjects taken(10-12),the Jpa scholar selection would be easy then.
Coz it is hard to differentiate better candidates a 13 1A,1 A2 student n a 12 1A n 1 A2 or other result...
after limiting the subjects taken,if they can achieve All 1A,mean they are equally good in academic ...then it is the time when Co-cu,family background n interveiw performance should
come in.Then students will be more active in co-cu which then become all-rounded students.

[yanno_yamster]

Like usainbolt said, there are students in form 4 n 5 who are stil uncertain about wad dey wan to study next. So, havin accountings n economics can offer them more choices. In fact, there is quite a number of science students who end up studyin accountings.

Yup, I'm one of them...

[eddielau]

Like usainbolt said, there are students in form 4 n 5 who are stil uncertain about wad dey wan to study next. So, havin accountings n economics can offer them more choices. In fact, there is quite a number of science students who end up studyin accountings.



yes..it is good for science students..
how about for Acts stream students??fair??
It is hard for Arts stream students to change to Science...
we muz be fair to every student but nt only on science students...

[Miracle_seed]

it is a rough figure where i get from few schs in my district.....
From my school,there are 9 persons get 13 A's n 1 person gt 14A's...none of them do housework AND good in sports...
School B(can't mention the name),12 persons gt 13A''s and above ,only 1 of them do housework AND good in sport..Similar stastictic values oso get from another 3 schools..
mayb it is nt correct for all school whole malaysia....but i dun think it will be a large different from the actual value..If we limit the subject taken to 10-12,the candidates will hv time to play sports n do housework...Mayb it is nt a main reason for them nt to play sport n do housework as there are still many factors lik family background n attitude themself..

R u sure there is quite a number who took accounts but without attending tuition class even the subject was nt taught in sch??
SPM 2008 account paper 2 is quite hard so i dun think they can do well if they did not attend tuition class or hv guidance from sch teacher after sch....and it would be unfair for those school which dun hv any account teacher to ask question....
Even they did not attend tuition class for account,i think they attend tuition for other subjects??am i right???Y din they saved their money n juz pay more attention on those important subjects n not trying to challenge a new subject which are nt taught at sch....
Correct me if im wrong...

Taking more subjects is just an advantange for those who good in English,CHinse,maLay,Islam,Arts,memorizing and calculating..
for english they can take English in literature.
for Chinese they can take Kesusasteraan CIna..
for Calculating,accounts.
for Memorizing ,perdagangan..
How about those students who really good in Math ???
Any Furthermaths for them and so on...
any IQ paper for those hv high IQ??
If we limit the subjects taken,it would be fair for every single student...

If we limit the subjects taken(10-12),the Jpa scholar selection would be easy then.
Coz it is hard to differentiate better candidates a 13 1A,1 A2 student n a 12 1A n 1 A2 or other result...
after limiting the subjects taken,if they can achieve All 1A,mean they are equally good in academic ...then it is the time when Co-cu,family background n interveiw performance should
come in.Then students will be more active in co-cu which then become all-rounded students.I've done a sampling too, but on JPA scholars. Many of them don't have 12A1, just 10 or 11, many of them do play sports or exercise, but very very few of them do housework. So, can you see the point there? It doesn't matter how many A1s do they have, many academic-inclined students just don't do housework.

[youngyew]

Agreed with micracle_seed. Correlation does not imply causation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation).

Parents in a well-off family tend to spoil their kids. They tend to send them to intensive tuition centre too. These kids end up getting 100 A1s. Many of them become bookworms too.

But that doesn't mean that when we make 100A1 impossible by limiting the number of subjects, the well-off family will stop spoiling their kids, nor will bookworms start playing football everyday.

[vseehua]

With regards to some comments suggesting that a science + accounting student being advantageous in future job interview compared to science-only student: This is not quite true. The employers would much rather assess you by your confidence and your competence in the interview itself rather than what subject you took in a paper in SPM.
I doubt do most employers look on your SPM result while interviewing you for a job?Who cares about SPM. 6 months after you get your results the piece of SPM slip is as good as junk paper.

It has always been the case, and even it didn't hold true in earlier application this year, it's still undeniably correct in the appeal.

By the way, regarding the subject-combination-make-competent matter, I've heard of a "pasar talk", that some experience employers in engineering company give a comment that many distinction graduates don't really do a great job, compared to non-distinction graduate. It's quite a generalisation, but I think it's partly true because many distinction students are book-smart...Many of the students who get distinction grades give me the image of someone who just sits there and study everyday. Stereotyping? Yes it is, but that's how the majority of them looks to me

I've done a sampling too, but on JPA scholars. Many of them don't have 12A1, just 10 or 11, many of them do play sports or exercise, but very very few of them do housework. So, can you see the point there? It doesn't matter how many A1s do they have, many academic-inclined students just don't do housework.Reminds me of my really bad results in school for not passing up my homework for two whole years from form 4 and 5 :P

[eve88]

Who cares about SPM. 6 months after you get your results the piece of SPM slip is as good as junk paper.


SPM is important for the JPA scholarship! (and not much else, really.)

[eddielau]

I've done a sampling too, but on JPA scholars. Many of them don't have 12A1, just 10 or 11, many of them do play sports or exercise, but very very few of them do housework. So, can you see the point there? It doesn't matter how many A1s do they have, many academic-inclined students just don't do housework.

i agree..tats y i say include other factor lik family background n attitude..

[danielhong93]

This is certainly a good topic to discuss as I'm sitting for SPM next year (total lab rat). As stated in my previous thread on ''stress handling'', I'll be taking 11 subjects:

Bahasa Malaysia
Bahasa Inggeris
Mathematics
Sejarah
Pendidikan Moral
Biology
Chemistry
Physics
Additional Mathematics
English in Science and Technology (EST)
Literature in English
If the DPM's plan goes well, I'm planning to drop Biology and EST. I'll be stuck with 9 subjects but I'll be able to take up Ekonomi Asas. What bothers me isn't really the 10 subject system, it's just the grading system. They're going to do A+,A,A-,etc - Which could result in thousands of students scoring As for almost every subject, worse to come some might get a B+, B or B-. How are the IPTS or IPTA able to differentiate eligible or ineligible candidates for internal scholarships (including JPA)??

[CCY_to_the_top]

i agree..tats y i say include other factor lik family background n attitude..

but how do you grade attitude-at-home???

it is a rough figure where i get from few schs in my district.....
From my school,there are 9 persons get 13 A's n 1 person gt 14A's...none of them do housework AND good in sports...
School B(can't mention the name),12 persons gt 13A''s and above ,only 1 of them do housework AND good in sport..Similar stastictic values oso get from another 3 schools..
mayb it is nt correct for all school whole malaysia....but i dun think it will be a large different from the actual value..If we limit the subject taken to 10-12,the candidates will hv time to play sports n do housework...Mayb it is nt a main reason for them nt to play sport n do housework as there are still many factors lik family background n attitude themself..

R u sure there is quite a number who took accounts but without attending tuition class even the subject was nt taught in sch??
SPM 2008 account paper 2 is quite hard so i dun think they can do well if they did not attend tuition class or hv guidance from sch teacher after sch....and it would be unfair for those school which dun hv any account teacher to ask question....
Even they did not attend tuition class for account,i think they attend tuition for other subjects??am i right???Y din they saved their money n juz pay more attention on those important subjects n not trying to challenge a new subject which are nt taught at sch....
Correct me if im wrong...

Taking more subjects is just an advantange for those who good in English,CHinse,maLay,Islam,Arts,memorizing and calculating..
for english they can take English in literature.
for Chinese they can take Kesusasteraan CIna..
for Calculating,accounts.
for Memorizing ,perdagangan..
How about those students who really good in Math ???
Any Furthermaths for them and so on...
any IQ paper for those hv high IQ??
If we limit the subjects taken,it would be fair for every single student...

If we limit the subjects taken(10-12),the Jpa scholar selection would be easy then.
Coz it is hard to differentiate better candidates a 13 1A,1 A2 student n a 12 1A n 1 A2 or other result...
after limiting the subjects taken,if they can achieve All 1A,mean they are equally good in academic ...then it is the time when Co-cu,family background n interveiw performance should
come in.Then students will be more active in co-cu which then become all-rounded students.

why dont you take then??

[ayja]

Who cares about SPM. 6 months after you get your results the piece of SPM slip is as good as junk paper.

On the contrary, most employers require you to bring your SPM cert during a job interview.

Many of the students who get distinction grades give me the image of someone who just sits there and study everyday. Stereotyping? Yes it is, but that's how the majority of them looks to me

Again, I beg to differ. I've had the opportunity of meeting with people with numerous 1As (trust me, really many) who can sing, dance, play one/more musical instruments, and are good in sports as well. Multi-talented people, unlike what most have portrayed them to be.

Oh yeah, they're killer debaters/public speakers as well. Don't forget, they write very well.

From my description, you'd think that I'm speaking the impossible, but alas, I've seen these people exist.

[vseehua]

On the contrary, most employers require you to bring your SPM cert during a job interview.
Where? Of all my interviews here, the employers didn't even bother to ask me for my A-Levels certificate

[Boyz_Zoo]

On the contrary, most employers require you to bring your SPM cert during a job interview.
What type of job are you referring to? If low-qualification jobs like cleaning staffs, I would say ya but applying for jobs like doctor, engineer, etc, I highly doubt it.

[ayja]

Over-generalisation. My bad. But I still feel that the SPM cert is important. besides, you mentioned it was useless, in general, and that interviews did not require your A-Levels cert. Although I doubt I'm making much sense here, but isn't the SPM cert like, the pre-requisite for most applications? Cause in columns you fill during applications, they have - High School Qualification. Or maybe only a few companies/gov bodies do.

[youngyew]

Ayja, you are definitely right that SPM is an important qualification for the general public, but as you will see, the further you go in your career, the less relevant SPM is going to be. In fact after you entered university and graduated from it, not many people are interested in SPM result anymore. In fact I don't even know most of my Malaysian friends' SPM results.

[ayja]

Ayja, you are definitely right that SPM is an important qualification for the general public, but as you will see, the further you go in your career, the less relevant SPM is going to be. In fact after you entered university and graduated from it, not many people are interested in SPM result anymore. In fact I don't even know most of my Malaysian friends' SPM results.

While I didn't say that the results are important, it is used as a formality isn't it? you still need the cert. but anyway, I think we're digressing here :))

[Miracle_seed]

Ayja, you are definitely right that SPM is an important qualification for the general public, but as you will see, the further you go in your career, the less relevant SPM is going to be. In fact after you entered university and graduated from it, not many people are interested in SPM result anymore. In fact I don't even know most of my Malaysian friends' SPM results.This is true. I have some friends who didn't do very well in SPM, work hard to score in STPM/matriculation, now some of them are doing medicine/law/pharmacy etc... Nobody will ever ask their SPM results again, and I don't think anybody cares as long as they graduate, and they are competent...

[Johnivan]

Let me list down 10 subjects that a normal SPM Science student would take.

1. Bahasa Malaysia
2. English
3. Moral / Islam
4. History
5. Mathematics
6. Add. Mathematics
7. Biology
8. Chemistry
9. Physics

10. Chinese / English / Arab Tinggi

10 subjects already!! These subjects are like a 'must' for every science student! How about some of them who want to take accounts? Maybe someone interested in Geography? Bible Knowledge? Enlish Literature? Music? Arts?

I took 14 subjects during my SPM (with an extra PD, Geo and BK), and i managed to get 12A1s and 1A2. My B was Moral, and that's why i didn't even get to be 'interviewed' for JPA last year.

I think the problem is not with the amount of subjects taken (Or even if it is, setting a limit of 12 or 13 may be better...). They are not dealing with the real problem! The fact is that there is no transparency in choosing the candidates for the scholarship. Limiting the number of subjects, i think, will only cause more trouble in selecting the candidates next year. Why don't they ask the opinion of the students too?

[nickvl]

there's already an existing thread about this issue....mods, you should merge this...

[youngyew]

Merged a redundant thread. Members, please make sure you do a search when you tick "I have already done a search" before creating a new thread, thanks. :)

[usainbolt]

it is a rough figure where i get from few schs in my district.....
From my school,there are 9 persons get 13 A's n 1 person gt 14A's...none of them do housework and as well as good in sports...they cant do equally well for both but only either one or mayb neither.
School B(can't mention the name),12 persons gt 13A''s and above ,only 1 of them do housework AND good in sport..Similar stastictic values oso get from another 3 schools..
mayb it is nt correct for all school whole malaysia....but i dun think it will be a large different from the actual value..If we limit the subject taken to 10-12,the candidates will hv time to play sports n do housework...Mayb it is nt a main reason for them nt to play sport n do housework as there are still many factors lik family background n attitude themself..

R u sure there is quite a number who took accounts but without attending tuition class even the subject was nt taught in sch??
SPM 2008 account paper 2 is quite hard so i dun think they can do well if they did not attend tuition class or hv guidance from sch teacher after sch....and it would be unfair for those school which dun hv any account teacher to ask question....
Even they did not attend tuition class for account,i think they attend tuition for other subjects??am i right???Y din they saved their money n juz pay more attention on those important subjects n not trying to challenge a new subject which are nt taught at sch....
Correct me if im wrong...

Taking more subjects is just an advantange for those who good in English,CHinse,maLay,Islam,Arts,memorizing and calculating..
for english they can take English in literature.
for Chinese they can take Kesusasteraan CIna..
for Calculating,accounts.
for Memorizing ,perdagangan..
How about those students who really good in Math ???
Any Furthermaths for them and so on...
any IQ paper for those hv high IQ??
If we limit the subjects taken,it would be fair for every single student...

If we limit the subjects taken(10-12),the Jpa scholar selection would be easy then.
Coz it is hard to differentiate better candidates a 13 1A,1 A2 student n a 12 1A n 1 A2 or other result...
after limiting the subjects taken,if they can achieve All 1A,mean they are equally good in academic ...then it is the time when Co-cu,family background n interveiw performance should
come in.Then students will be more active in co-cu which then become all-rounded students.

Wow, should we clap for eddie ?? Wah, somebody actually done a research asking students with more than 12A whether they do their housework or not. Can anybody blif this? Are u telling me this 14A girl do not wash her clothes? Come on. Dun give fake figures pls la. Please n thank you. Wake up pls eddie.

If we limit the subjects, scholarship selection will be easier ? Nah, it is easier to choose between a 15A1 student over a 9A1 student, than to choose between 2 11A1 students. If there are 3000 students who score 10As, surely, the selection will be harder. The only solution is not to limit the number of subjects taken, but to increase the quality of A1.

[youngyew]

Guys, please refrain from making personal sarcastic references. Thanks.

[CCY_to_the_top]

eddie havent answer my previous question yet...

[Gabrielle90]

mostly SPM students would take these subjects

Let me list down 10 subjects that a normal SPM Science student would take.

1. Bahasa Malaysia
2. English
3. Moral / Islam
4. History
5. Mathematics
6. Add. Mathematics
7. Biology
8. Chemistry
9. Physics

10. Chinese / English / Arab Tinggi/ Account

know what, for the tenth, i think most students would choose Account over Chinese, since it is harder to get an A1 in Chinese than Account. If this really happen, then the percentage of students taking Chinese is gonna drop drastically.

[eddielau]

Wow, should we clap for eddie ?? Wah, somebody actually done a research asking students with more than 12A whether they do their housework or not. Can anybody blif this? Are u telling me this 14A girl do not wash her clothes? Come on.

If we limit the subjects, scholarship selection will be easier ? Nah, it is easier to choose between a 15A1 student over a 9A1 student, than to choose between 2 11A1 students. If there are 3000 students who score 10As, surely, the selection will be harder. The only solution is not to limit the number of subjects taken, but to increase the quality of A1.

"Are u telling me this 14A girl do not wash her clothes"...yes....this 14A's scorer does nt wash clothes but by the Maid.....
Im sorry..(GOOD in sport AND oso dO housework)
i really take that figure from my sch....(those who r nt gd in sport ,i din ask ad)
Those from my sch wont deny it...
SMSM 0
SMKTI 0
SMKBA 0
SMKI 2 (In this sch,among the 13 A's and above scorers,there r 2 persons who excel n really good in Sports-State player...Since i dun hv chance to ask them ,i assume they do their housework)
ANd this is juz a small area...whch cant represent the whole Malaysia..
But i guess it wont be a huge different from the actual value...
But i din bluff ,ok???pls dun hurt me...it is juz my opinion n a small survey.

Those who from SP,u can juz look from ur sch...
ANs specially mY sch...I noe them very well.thats y i can 100% sure for my sch...
lets 4get about housework...
FOr ur sch,there mayb a lot of 13 A's above scorers bt i think mayb less than 50% are excel in sports..U may argue that because different sch hv different students..
I dare not to say im correct..It is juz my opinion n values from 4 sch only whch may cant represent anything actually.
anyone of u who r interested ,can try to find out for ur sch...
then we can compare n make a more accurate value in other thread.ok?



eddie havent answer my previous question yet...

The question u asked was nt related to tis thread actually...Mayb u dun understand the sentences bcoz of my simple English which full of errors.
Wat i mean is MANY of the 13 A n above students cant do equally well in sport and do housework but only either one or maybe neither...
more Specific for ur question,there are still other factors for them nt to do housework lik family background n attitude..but nt only because they nid to focus on studies..So,i wont answer for that as the question and the answer are nt related to the topic..

[CCY_to_the_top]

"Are u telling me this 14A girl do not wash her clothes"...yes....this 14A's scorer does nt wash clothes but by the Maid.....
Im sorry..(GOOD in sport AND oso dO housework)
i really take that figure from my sch....(those who r nt gd in sport ,i din ask ad)
Those from my sch wont deny it...
SMSM 0
SMKTI 0
SMKBA 0
SMKI 2 (In this sch,among the 13 A's and above scorers,there r 2 persons who excel n really good in Sports-State player...Since i dun hv chance to ask them ,i assume they do their housework)
ANd this is juz a small area...whch cant represent the whole Malaysia..
But i guess it wont be a huge different from the actual value...
But i din bluff ,ok???pls dun hurt me...it is juz my opinion n a small survey.

Those who from SP,u can juz look from ur sch...
ANs specially mY sch...I noe them very well.thats y i can 100% sure for my sch...
lets 4get about housework...
FOr ur sch,there mayb a lot of 13 A's above scorers bt i think mayb less than 50% are excel in sports..U may argue that because different sch hv different students..
I dare not to say im correct..It is juz my opinion n values from 4 sch only whch may cant represent anything actually.
anyone of u who r interested ,can try to find out for ur sch...
then we can compare n make a more accurate value in other thread.ok?


i think u are really out of ur mind now...dont be too desperated..u took 13 subject too, just that u dont make a streak..no offence

ok, so im asking if u are trying to say that most of the >13A1 students do not do housework, but who cares?? if they have maid, dont tell me u want them to do all the house works and leave nothing to the maid...and u are signaling us that the government should not just look at academic result...but can i ask u, what do we people look at when u are outside looking for job?? do they ask you what sport do you play?? do they ask you whether or not that you wash ur mama's cloth at home?? what they care about is ur bloody qualification..lets say a national level sportsman who scored 2A1B in Alvl, and another nerd who dont do sport but scored 3As in Alvl, which is better?? dont tell me they will pick the 2A1B fellow...

and most of the uni put priority in your exam result..for example u are applying to US uni, u need to hand in ur SAT score before u send in ur personal details which some of the uni dont even give a damn about it..if u are smart, they take you...you dont expect people to be good in both sports and academics..maybe they should balance up both, for the sake of healthy lifestyle..but at the end of the day, who give a damn about it???

[vseehua]

Guys, this thread is getting flammable. If the flamming continues and you couldn't keep yourselves from attacking each other, this thread will be closed!

do they ask you what sport do you play?? do they ask you whether or not that you wash ur mama's cloth at home?? what they care about is ur bloody qualification..lets say a national level sportsman who scored 2A1B in Alvl, and another nerd who dont do sport but scored 3As in Alvl, which is better?? dont tell me they will pick the 2A1B fellow...Wrong, the interviewers will ask about your hobbies all right.

[eddielau]

ok, so im asking if u are trying to say that most of the >13A1 students do not do housework, but who cares?? if they have maid, dont tell me u want them to do all the house works and leave nothing to the maid...and u are signaling us that the government should not just look at academic result...but can i ask u, what do we people look at when u are outside looking for job?? do they ask you what sport do you play?? do they ask you whether or not that you wash ur mama's cloth at home?? what they care about is ur bloody qualification..lets say a national level sportsman who scored 2A1B in Alvl, and another nerd who dont do sport but scored 3As in Alvl, which is better?? dont tell me they will pick the 2A1B fellow...

and most of the uni put priority in your exam result..for example u are applying to US uni, u need to hand in ur SAT score before u send in ur personal details which some of the uni dont even give a damn about it..if u are smart, they take you...you dont expect people to be good in both sports and academics..maybe they should balance up both, for the sake of healthy lifestyle..but at the end of the day, who give a damn about it???

I dun think so...
It is hard to apply into US university such as Ivy league..
Almost all the applicants hv excellent results for SAT..
I still remember wat did ChenCHow told me when I attend his talk in P.Pinang.
To enter Those university,we nid good academic result and TALENT..
Do u noe only how many guys from Malaysia got into Ivy League ??
There are only a few who excel in academic And also hv other talents succeed.
One of them had climbed the Mountain Tahan before..
One of them was the 2nd runner-up of miss malaysia
One of them is the author of three books.
One of them took charge of his dad's small little business when he was young and developed into huge company.
The other applicants oso hv their other own talents or achievement..

ANd to apply into Ivy LEague,we oso nid some testimonials from teachers and lecturers..
this is the time where co-cu come in..If u were nt active in co-cu and did not interact well with teachers,what can u expect the teachers to write for u in the testimonials?FOr this,active in co-cu does not mean only win a lot of prizes in many competitions such as math competition ,phy,chem quiz and other.It can be something lik how well did u do during in the camping,how well do u work as a committee member and other related.

"lets say a national level sportsman who scored 2A1B in Alvl, and another nerd who dont do sport but scored 3As in Alvl, which is better?? dont tell me they will pick the 2A1B fellow" i cant disagree wat u said here...but i think their opportunity is still 50:50...because the national sportsman has talent in sport..

[Keiko123]

ok, so im asking if u are trying to say that most of the >13A1 students do not do housework, but who cares?? if they have maid, dont tell me u want them to do all the house works and leave nothing to the maid...and u are signaling us that the government should not just look at academic result...but can i ask u, what do we people look at when u are outside looking for job?? do they ask you what sport do you play?? do they ask you whether or not that you wash ur mama's cloth at home?? what they care about is ur bloody qualification..lets say a national level sportsman who scored 2A1B in Alvl, and another nerd who dont do sport but scored 3As in Alvl, which is better?? dont tell me they will pick the 2A1B fellow...

if they have maid, dont tell me u want them to do all the house works and leave nothing to the maid
This is the disadvantage of employing maid. :notrust

what do we people look at when u are outside looking for job?? do they ask you what sport do you play?? do they ask you whether or not that you wash ur mama's cloth at home??
When my group members, including me, were interviewed for JPA scholarship, the interviewers asked, "Do you know how to do household chores?"
So, tell me, what does this imply?

what they care about is ur bloody qualification..lets say a national level sportsman who scored 2A1B in Alvl, and another nerd who dont do sport but scored 3As in Alvl, which is better?? dont tell me they will pick the 2A1B fellow...
Bloody qualification? I'll say NO!
Would you like to select nerd? According to the definition in dictionary, nerd means A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
So how could you expect he/she to communicate well with people?
Nowadays, communication is significant too besides your so-called excellent result.

Sorry if this really offends you, but I really can't endure this "excellence based on academic result merely".

[eddielau]

If we limit the subjects, scholarship selection will be easier ? Nah, it is easier to choose between a 15A1 student over a 9A1 student, than to choose between 2 11A1 students. If there are 3000 students who score 10As, surely, the selection will be harder. The only solution is not to limit the number of subjects taken, but to increase the quality of A1.

Yes , u may think that 15 1A student is better than a 10A1 student.
there is a case.A 10A1 student from art stream and a 15 1A student from science stream n both are contesting for the scholarship for accounting or econ.
Choose the 15 1A student?
nt fair for the art stream students as he could not only take up to 10 subjects,rite?
Can JPA officers look through every applicant result n compare?
To fair for every single student,the subject muz be limited.

If there are 3000 students who score 10As, surely, the selection will be harder???i dun think so..If there are 3000 students who score 10As,mean they are equally good in academic,then JPA will look through their Co-cu n family background...

If we do not limit the subject takens, How choose between student A who gd in academic(14 1A) but average co-cu and another student B wiv academic result(10 1A) but excellent co-cu..
CHoose A or B ???quite hard to choose ,right?

[vseehua]

If you haven't realised, JPA had always included co-curricular activities in their criteria of selections. How do you suppose JPA should evaluate involvement in cocu activities? based on the amount of posts, competitions won etc? If JPA only limits their subject criteria to those which are essential to the course, the hard limits on the examinations won't even be necessary.

All right guys, we have veered way too much from our discussion. This has turned somehow into "How should JPA select their candidates if the number of subjects in SPM is limited to ten" thread.

[CCY_to_the_top]

I dun think so...
It is hard to apply into US university such as Ivy league..
Almost all the applicants hv excellent results for SAT..
I still remember wat did ChenCHow told me when I attend his talk in P.Pinang.
To enter Those university,we nid good academic result and TALENT..
Do u noe only how many guys from Malaysia got into Ivy League ??
There are only a few who excel in academic And also hv other talents succeed.
One of them had climbed the Mountain Tahan before..
One of them was the 2nd runner-up of miss malaysia
One of them is the author of three books.
One of them took charge of his dad's small little business when he was young and developed into huge company.
The other applicants oso hv their other own talents or achievement..

ANd to apply into Ivy LEague,we oso nid some testimonials from teachers and lecturers..
this is the time where co-cu come in..If u were nt active in co-cu and did not interact well with teachers,what can u expect the teachers to write for u in the testimonials?FOr this,active in co-cu does not mean only win a lot of prizes in many competitions such as math competition ,phy,chem quiz and other.It can be something lik how well did u do during in the camping,how well do u work as a committee member and other related.

"lets say a national level sportsman who scored 2A1B in Alvl, and another nerd who dont do sport but scored 3As in Alvl, which is better?? don't tell me they will pick the 2A1B fellow" i cant disagree wat u said here...but i think their opportunity is still 50:50...because the national sportsman has talent in sport..

I've been to chenchow talk too...he talks about a girl who made her own music CD and got admitted into a uni(IVY i think)...but u see, 1st of all, isn't SAT the most important aspect in your application?? if u cant even get high score, how are u going to compete with others using ur CCAs??

and u say that 2A1B with sports have a 50:50 chance compare to the 3A nerd..i don't think so...they don't look at ur CCA achievement anyway, if u are better than someone in term of result, they will pick u instead..

Yes , u may think that 15 1A student is better than a 10A1 student.
there is a case.A 10A1 student from art stream and a 15 1A student from science stream n both are contesting for the scholarship for accounting or econ.
Choose the 15 1A student?
nt fair for the art stream students as he could not only take up to 10 subjects,rite?
Can JPA officers look through every applicant result n compare?
To fair for every single student,the subject muz be limited.

If there are 3000 students who score 10As, surely, the selection will be harder???i dun think so..If there are 3000 students who score 10As,mean they are equally good in academic,then JPA will look through their Co-cu n family background...

If we do not limit the subject takens, How choose between student A who gd in academic(14 1A) but average co-cu and another student B wiv academic result(10 1A) but excellent co-cu..
CHoose A or B ???quite hard to choose ,right?

zzz

im telling u once more, it's not the matter of morality or what-so-ever..the 15A1 student is always better and 'smarter', because he can handle more, he can score As in tougher subject like physics and chem, he dares to take up 15 subjects because he knew he is 'smart' and can do it easily....

and for the 10A1 art-stream student, we can say that "why in the 1st place he chose to be in art-stream??" doesn't he knows that he can take as much subject as he wished??he knew he cant handle 15 subjects, cant handle the stress, so he quit...

*additional info*--to be a economist, physics is important, so do other courses...and economics originated from physics...in a way...

again, its not fairness or morality issues...the world is always fair...

[Miracle_seed]

and u say that 2A1B with sports have a 50:50 chance compare to the 3A nerd..i don't think so...they don't look at ur CCA achievement anyway, if u are better than someone in term of result, they will pick u instead..In this case, I'm afraid both might not be selected, unless they have no choice but to pick one. I believe there are still lots of students out there who can score good results and at the same time, not nerds...

im telling u once more, it's not the matter of morality or what-so-ever..the 15A1 student is always better and 'smarter', because he can handle more, he can score As in tougher subject like physics and chem, he dares to take up 15 subjects because he knew he is 'smart' and can do it easily....
This is equal to the saying that the person with the bigger house and car is richer, even though he might have lots of debts to be settled, while another person with mid-sized house and car is poorer, even though he bought them all using cash.

[CCY_to_the_top]

if they have maid, dont tell me u want them to do all the house works and leave nothing to the maid
This is the disadvantage of employing maid. :notrust

what do we people look at when u are outside looking for job?? do they ask you what sport do you play?? do they ask you whether or not that you wash ur mama's cloth at home??
When my group members, including me, were interviewed for JPA scholarship, the interviewers asked, "Do you know how to do household chores?"
So, tell me, what does this imply?

what they care about is ur bloody qualification..lets say a national level sportsman who scored 2A1B in Alvl, and another nerd who dont do sport but scored 3As in Alvl, which is better?? dont tell me they will pick the 2A1B fellow...
Bloody qualification? I'll say NO!
Would you like to select nerd? According to the definition in dictionary, nerd means A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
So how could you expect he/she to communicate well with people?
Nowadays, communication is significant too besides your so-called excellent result.

Sorry if this really offends you, but I really can't endure this "excellence based on academic result merely".

for ur 1st question, i cant answer it..since you dont even understand what im talking about..so what if one's already have a maid at home?? chase her away??

2nd--scholarship interview is not to apply for a job..of course they want something special out from you..but, isn't it academic achievement give u a upper hand?? let's say u are an international physics Olympics medalist..isn't it better than an international marathon medalist??

3rd--my meaning of nerd is not what u find in wiki..what i mean is someone who are better academically..and please dont do stereotyping here, people who do well academically cant communicate well with others?? people who are good in sports can communicate better because of all those bloody teamwork they get during sports??

im play sport too..just that i dont agree on y u put so much emphasize on sport or co-cu achievement..

if they have maid, dont tell me u want them to do all the house works and leave nothing to the maid
This is the disadvantage of employing maid. :notrust

what do we people look at when u are outside looking for job?? do they ask you what sport do you play?? do they ask you whether or not that you wash ur mama's cloth at home??
When my group members, including me, were interviewed for JPA scholarship, the interviewers asked, "Do you know how to do household chores?"
So, tell me, what does this imply?

what they care about is ur bloody qualification..lets say a national level sportsman who scored 2A1B in Alvl, and another nerd who dont do sport but scored 3As in Alvl, which is better?? dont tell me they will pick the 2A1B fellow...
Bloody qualification? I'll say NO!
Would you like to select nerd? According to the definition in dictionary, nerd means A person who is single-minded or accomplished in scientific or technical pursuits but is felt to be socially inept.
So how could you expect he/she to communicate well with people?
Nowadays, communication is significant too besides your so-called excellent result.

Sorry if this really offends you, but I really can't endure this "excellence based on academic result merely".

for ur 1st question, i cant answer it..since you dont even understand what im talking about..so what if one's already have a maid at home?? chase her away??

2nd--scholarship interview is not to apply for a job..of course they want something special out from you..but, isn't it academic achievement give u a upper hand?? let's say u are an international physics Olympics medalist..isn't it better than an international marathon medalist??

3rd--my meaning of nerd is not what u find in wiki..what i mean is someone who are better academically..and please dont do stereotyping here, people who do well academically cant communicate well with others?? people who are good in sports can communicate better because of all those bloody teamwork they get during sports??

i play sport too..just that i dont agree on y u put so much emphasize on sport or co-cu achievement..

Guys, this thread is getting flammable. If the flamming continues and you couldn't keep yourselves from attacking each other, this thread will be closed!

Wrong, the interviewers will ask about your hobbies all right.

true..hobbies, not sports..

[Keiko123]

for ur 1st question, i cant answer it..since you dont even understand what im talking about..so what if one's already have a maid at home?? chase her away??

2nd--scholarship interview is not to apply for a job..of course they want something special out from you..but, isn't it academic achievement give u a upper hand?? let's say u are an international physics Olympics medalist..isn't it better than an international marathon medalist??

3rd--my meaning of nerd is not what u find in wiki..what i mean is someone who are better academically..and please dont do stereotyping here, people who do well academically cant communicate well with others?? people who are good in sports can communicate better because of all those bloody teamwork they get during sports??

im play sport too..just that i dont agree on y u put so much emphasize on sport or co-cu achievement..

Aiyooo, I thought you won't trash me back for my comments. :P

It isn't meant to chase away the maid, I just said that's one of the advantages, didn't mean you can't employ maid, of course you can. Just I ever met many cases that the children don't know how to do household chores even the simplest work, sweep the floor. I'm not criticizing all the children with maid in their house don't know how to do chores absolutely, just part of them only. Moreover, having a maid at home doesn't mean that you must let the maid do all the housework just because she's paid, can't you do it yourself too as to be more independent?

Of course academic result is the upper hand to be judged at first, but then considering the large number of students who can really achieve excellence as easy as a piece of cake nowadays due to the lower grading standard, won't you think that additional skills or cocurriclum is another beneficial factor to determine which student is more excellent? I'm not trying to emphasize sports or Cocuriculum more, just I don't want to adjudicate something from one side only. That's what a well-rounder meant to...

FYI, I was not finding the meaning in wiki.
I don't stereotype here. Didn't mean students who do well academically can't communicate well, of course they can! And vice versa...

Heh... I think we really veered too much away from the topic...

[CabalUchiha]

"Are u telling me this 14A girl do not wash her clothes"...yes....this 14A's scorer does nt wash clothes but by the Maid.....
Im sorry..(GOOD in sport AND oso dO housework)
i really take that figure from my sch....(those who r nt gd in sport ,i din ask ad)
Those from my sch wont deny it...
SMSM 0
SMKTI 0
SMKBA 0
SMKI 2 (In this sch,among the 13 A's and above scorers,there r 2 persons who excel n really good in Sports-State player...Since i dun hv chance to ask them ,i assume they do their housework)
ANd this is juz a small area...whch cant represent the whole Malaysia..
But i guess it wont be a huge different from the actual value...
But i din bluff ,ok???pls dun hurt me...it is juz my opinion n a small survey.

Those who from SP,u can juz look from ur sch...
ANs specially mY sch...I noe them very well.thats y i can 100% sure for my sch...
lets 4get about housework...
FOr ur sch,there mayb a lot of 13 A's above scorers bt i think mayb less than 50% are excel in sports..U may argue that because different sch hv different students..
I dare not to say im correct..It is juz my opinion n values from 4 sch only whch may cant represent anything actually.
anyone of u who r interested ,can try to find out for ur sch...
then we can compare n make a more accurate value in other thread.ok?





The question u asked was nt related to tis thread actually...Mayb u dun understand the sentences bcoz of my simple English which full of errors.
Wat i mean is MANY of the 13 A n above students cant do equally well in sport and do housework but only either one or maybe neither...
more Specific for ur question,there are still other factors for them nt to do housework lik family background n attitude..but nt only because they nid to focus on studies..So,i wont answer for that as the question and the answer are nt related to the topic..

eddie, r u kinda ... erm, how shud i put tis, desperate ?
u took 13 subs, so do u know how to do wash ur plates ? those from ur skul wont deny ? I'm sure a 14A gal know how to wash her plates la. is doing housework hard ? Btw, havin a maid does not mean she doesnt know how to do her housework.

Actual value ? i got a network in smki, U nvr ask my frens whether dey know how to do housework or not. so how can we comfirm ur so call 'survey' ?

[usainbolt]

haha, eddie, u really rajin in recom, i no energy to keep flooding this thread d. haha.
But, come to think of it, why are u feeling so emotional ? Since u're a 13 subjects student, wad made u feel so angry ?
Well, i'll stop replying as fast as i could, i'll only read n thank ppl dat represented my views on this issue.
ha .... eddie, u pro, my hands tired lo, u got really some stamina there....





~~~~'I can feel ur anger,' Darth Vader~~~~~~

[Boyz_Zoo]

Source:http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2009/6/2/nation/4024593&sec=nation

Send in your views on capping SPM subjects

PETALING JAYA: Interested parties can send their views on the Education Ministry?s plan to cap the number of subjects taken in the Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia (SPM) by the end of this week.

Education director-general Datuk Alimuddin Mohd Dom urged them to send by e-mail or facsimile their views to him.

?The views will be taken into consideration when I prepare a paper for the minister,? he told reporters after opening the Government Integrated Telecommunications Network Learning in Schools Programme schools? convention.

Alimuddin can be reached at alimuddin.dom@<hidden> or fax: 03-8889 4548.

He was asked about complaints from students who were already studying for more than 10 subjects in Form Four this year.

Alimuddin said he would prepare the paper by next week, adding that the limit on the number of subjects for the SPM examination had not been finalised yet.

?We want to hear feedback from various organisations including teachers. I will also meet with ministry-level professionals.?

He said he would then discuss the matter with the Malaysian Examinations Syndicate before Deputy Prime Minister Tan Sri Muhyiddin Yassin makes a final decision.

Muhyiddin, who is also Education Minister, said last week that the Government might limit the number of subjects to ensure a fair Public Service Department (PSD) scholarship selection.

Under the SPM open certificate introduced in 2000, students have to take six core subjects ? Bahasa Melayu, English, Islamic Education or Moral Studies, History, Mathematics and Science ? and any other elective subjects as long as they do not clash with the timetable.

In Putrajaya, Muhyiddin said there was still time before a final decision was made to cap the number of SPM subjects.

?Whatever decision made will not affect the people negatively.?

We all should not only voice our opinions here. In order to be heard, we have to play our roles as concern citizen and send our suggestions to the Ministry of Education.

[CCY_to_the_top]

haha, eddie, u really rajin in recom, i no energy to keep flooding this thread d. haha.
But, come to think of it, why are u feeling so emotional ? Since u're a 13 subjects student, wad made u feel so angry ?
Well, i'll stop replying as fast as i could, i'll only read n thank ppl dat represented my views on this issue.
ha .... eddie, u pro, my hands tired lo, u got really some stamina there....





~~~~'I can feel ur anger,' Darth Vader~~~~~~



haha...me too lo...eddie, u beat me in not in ur debating skill, but ur sportsman-stamina u learned somewhere else..kind of salute you..

~no offense..

[Johnivan]

there's already an existing thread about this issue....mods, you should merge this...

Oops... Thanks for telling. :)

Sorry but can i just interrupt? We were supposed to give our opinions on what we think about the new system of limiting 10 subjects in SPM. It seems everyone went on to job opportunities, maids doing housework, sportsmen and nerds... If you were to say that limiting 10 subjects is the solution to the JPA scholarship problem, then i think it is the wrong choice. The only solution to it is to have more transparency in the scholarship selection. Problems will still arise when choosing many students with 10A1s.

I think it is very subjective in the selection of a scholarship receipient. Some who scored well might not have good morality, good in sports, living skills... Some are just the opposite, while some have both. I think it is of no point debating whether a person who gets a lot of A's should get scholarship or not. If a selection was done fairly, why do we need to complain? However, we need to know our limits too: for no selection is fair to EVERYONE. There's a high tendency that most of them who complains only tells everyone that how good he is, but never says whether he has low coco marks, etc.

Since Malaysian has an examination-based education system, everyone has a great tendency to gain as much A's as possible, thinking that a lot of A's will give them a greater chance to get scholarships (which i think is true now...). But whether a person has a lot of A's and whether he is good in every field is two different things. We are all humans anyway: we might not be perfect in everything... But a person with a lot of A's in many subjects does show that he is different from others, because either he shows that he (for whatever intention he has) can cope with extra subjects compared to others who don't even want to try.

Phew, I myself gets detoured when commenting on the subject... What i want to say is: let's put all those less important debates aside... The main thing now is to help to give constructive comments to the government in order to solve the JPA Scholarship thing, then the 10 subjects limit. Hopefully if our methods are right, they will listen and do something to it. :)

[duke23]

ya, u are right, company prefers science stream students than art stream students..so if u are trying to say that taking up art subject should not be encouraged because it kill off others opportunities, then what opportunities do you give urself??? this is not the matter of morality or what-so-ever..this is about equipping urself with more knowledge and be better than others..and not everyone opt for the tougher science stream courses.

e.g., 2 student applying to Cambridge university for medicine course...student1 scored A in Bio Chem Math..Student2 scored A in Phy Chem Math..and you know what? Cambridge will prefer student with physics than biology..btw, bio is not a requirement..you dont need to know your bio to be a doctor..does this scenario applies here too?? Cambridge choose the person with physics because they think that they have greater analytical skill..in SPM, if u take 15 or 16 or 17 subject doesnt it makes u more versatile?? doesnt it makes u standout among others for having knowledge in econs, accounts and perdangagan?? and to clear things up, econs is not how to earn money and its not business..it helps in making decisions wisely considering all factors internally and externally. and for accounts, who know u are setting up ur own business or investing in stock market which will be good if u know how to read all the annual reports??



ya, i agree to removing this subject from the core subjects list..it's easier than any other subjects, including science, which basically you only spend 30minute reading it..and add-maths is not that tough too, looking at the fact that u only need at least 70 for an A1..and a double digits to pass it..


cambridge does not favour physics over biofor medicine.you got your facts wrong.

[Athersin]

just wondering...can recom moderators post our views directly to alimuddin.dom@<hidden>

Or do they browse recom too? haha....

Recom is a great platform for fellow malaysian students views!

[zheyan]

To limit students from taking more than 10 subjects in SPM is really unfair to those students who wish to opt for more. For instance, students from chinese schools were required to take mandarin as one of their subjects in spm. By learning their mother tongue, only will they know where their ancestors come from and not forget their roots. I'm sure all of us do not wish to see that our mother tongue is being gradually replaced with bahasa malaysia and face extinction in future. Another example is for those who have the passion for arts and would like to take PSV as an additional subject in spm, they will not have the chance to do so because of this new education policy. As a result, they might lost their interest in future for they were not given an option to take additional subjects.

By capping the number of subjects in spm to 10, the education ministry is also indirectly making it easier for more students to score straight A's in spm. How is the PSD going to select their scholars from thousands of straight A's candidates when everyone has similar academic and co-curricular achievements?? Isn't this going to make matters worse? By trying to solve one problem hastily, our education minister is actually creating more problems in future.....

[unsolvedcryptex]

im against such a system.altho they edu ministry wants us to concentrate on koko more and build our soft skills bla bla, do they rly know wat students are doing in school level?

take one of my classmate as an example.hes not that good in studies.i mean compared to the rest.hes average.he did not join even one club.nothing at all.not even sports.did not attend any cross country.when i asked him how he felt about himself.he replied nothing.he dun feel guilty to anyone.he dun feel bad bout himself.

it shows my classmate is not good in studies.normally ppl expect them to b good in koko.but hes not too.
and hes my classmate.imagine other classes?other skuls?other place in malaysia?how many students are like these at here?i totally disagree when the edu ministry wants us to concentrate on koko more.even my classmates did not join.

when this system is implemented,how can the edu ministry rly ensure people will concentrate on koko?at this stage,some of us are not active in koko at all.despite some taking more than 10 subjects.limiting the number of subjects in spm hardly let students have more time to develop soft skills.

imagine every1 taking onli 10 subjects.it is hard to differentiate between a good and average students.everywhere u go,people get 10 A1s in spm.everywhere next time!will district quizzes or other quizzes really prove someone is better than the rest?definitely spm is still the best way to measure one's hardwork and intelligence.

[yanno_yamster]

There are also those who wish to take part in co-cu activities but not given a chance...

[Koschei]

The easiest way to fix this is to change the weightage given to academic achievement when they award scholarships. Obtaining the requisite number of As (they should make it A1, btw) should be a matter of fact. Allowing students to take as many subjects as they want is a good thing, imo, but the weightage given to academic achievement for scholarships isn't. There are many straight A students (with an A1 in English) in our country who can't even string a proper English sentence together.

I propose the following: Instead of having 70% of the assessment be based on academic achievement, reduce it to 20% or 30%. Let 50-60% be based on the interview, with the marks awarded divided into various segments (e.g. ability to converse well, 5%, knowledge of current issues (both local and international), 5-10%, etc.). Change the way the interviews are conducted. Instead of having group interviews, make it 1 student to 2 or 3 interviewers.

[zheyan]

I propose the following: Instead of having 70% of the assessment be based on academic achievement, reduce it to 20% or 30%. Let 50-60% be based on the interview, with the marks awarded divided into various segments (e.g. ability to converse well, 5%, knowledge of current issues (both local and international), 5-10%, etc.). Change the way the interviews are conducted. Instead of having group interviews, make it 1 student to 2 or 3 interviewers.

Since interview is a very subjective thing, I don't think this is a good way to solve the problem. Some interviewers are very strict and stingy in giving marks to interviewees while there are some who generously give out marks no matter whether the interviewees are good or bad. This will definitely put those "unlucky" ones at the losing end....:(

[unsolvedcryptex]

Since interview is a very subjective thing, I don't think this is a good way to solve the problem. Some interviewers are very strict and stingy in giving marks to interviewees while there are some who generously give out marks no matter whether the interviewees are good or bad. This will definitely put those "unlucky" ones at the losing end....:(

yeah i agree.
i dun think interviewers are robots at all.they might b affected by their personal problems or lets hope they r not racist.
academic achievements shud b given high priority but reducing it to 30% is quite weird for me.hahaha

[nemosmknimh]

now what i think is.......
we shouldnt limit the subjects number
but...we stick to one stream
say if accounting stream have only these subjects and no more
pure science took those subjects and no more
and same goes to other stream.....

if like these, then we can easily use other marking/grading system like if we want to use like australia TER also can.....

[unsolvedcryptex]

now what i think is.......
we shouldnt limit the subjects number
but...we stick to one stream
say if accounting stream have only these subjects and no more
pure science took those subjects and no more
and same goes to other stream.....

if like these, then we can easily use other marking/grading system like if we want to use like australia TER also can.....

but then limiting it makes science cls students hard to study for accounts and so on.

beside like me in skul,the art students r rly doing badly.unlike some good skuls,my skuls art 1 has very bad results.for students in science cls who r interested to switch to art stream find it difficult to study as it is not that competitive.

this makes good students have hard time to study art subjects

[mehul91]

honestly, although this may seem like hypocrisy( am saying this because i'm a scholar as well not jpa though) i believe that scholarships should not be given after the completion of SPM. It should only be given after the completion of a pre-u course such as stpm or a levels. They money should be used to fund our universities and i mean main universities such as USM, UKM, and UM and exalt them to nus and ntu standard. In that case, we dont need to give scholarship and create controvesy and limit the subjects. Students should be allowed to take as many subjects as they want. I think we don't need to look far. Having a glance across our border is enough. We need a massive revamp of our education system. The only reason students want to go overseas is because our local university is not that good. Imagine having a university like NUS in Malaysia. Most student then will not probably go overseas cause the local uni would be of world class stature. And yes, the admission to these uni should be based on merits and cocuricular and not based on racial quotas.

[unsolvedcryptex]

honestly, although this may seem like hypocrisy( am saying this because i'm a scholar as well not jpa though) i believe that scholarships should not be given after the completion of SPM. It should only be given after the completion of a pre-u course such as stpm or a levels. They money should be used to fund our universities and i mean main universities such as USM, UKM, and UM and exalt them to nus and ntu standard. In that case, we dont need to give scholarship and create controvesy and limit the subjects. Students should be allowed to take as many subjects as they want. I think we don't need to look far. Having a glance across our border is enough. We need a massive revamp of our education system. The only reason students want to go overseas is because our local university is not that good. Imagine having a university like NUS in Malaysia. Most student then will not probably go overseas cause the local uni would be of world class stature. And yes, the admission to these uni should be based on merits and cocuricular and not based on racial quotas.

that is another big issue.if scholarships r not given based on spm results,some find it hard to get study a-level.if almost all malaysians resort to stpm as their choice,it is not widely recognised yet(im not saying its useless) and also,students taking gce o-level previously finds it hard too.and too much students taking stpm isnt that good as well.its hard to find good teachers for stpm.
therefore i think its appropriate to give scholarshis to spm leavers as well as pre-u leavers

no big deal anyway.
thx for going against the new system!