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misled_youth
10-06-2004, 06:47 PM
JPA Medical Grad Laments "Worthless Degree"

KUALA LUMPUR, June 10 (Bernama) -- A Public Service Department (JPA)-sponsored graduate, sent to study medicine in Japan through the "Look East" policy, is now bemoaning the fact that his degree is unrecognized in Malaysia.

The graduate, who has been jobless since returning to Malaysia last year, said he was shocked when the JPA informed him that the Malaysian Medical Council (MMC) did not recognize the medical degree from Akita University, despite the institution being among JPA's preferred universities in Japan.

"It is so depressing and frustrating as after seven years of studying very hard to get a medical degree in Japan, all of my efforts have gone down the drain," said the 27-year-old "doctor".

The graduate told Bernama Thursday he attended a two-year preparatory programme, including learning the Japanese language, before leaving for Japan in 1997.

What had puzzled him was why the JPA, which fully sponsored the medical programme, had sent him to a university which issued a degree unrecognized in Malaysia?

He said MMC's list of recognized Japanese medical degrees was questionable as the degrees from the country's top universities -- Tokyo University and Chiba University, were not recognized.

"This is absurd as several other Japanese universities recognized by the MMC are those ranked lower than Tokyo University or Chiba University, which are among the top five universities in Japan," said the graduate.

He said a medical degree from Tokyo University was a prestigious degree in Japan.

The graduate said there were now 19 JPA-sponsored Malaysians studying medicine in Japan including 10 in institutions unrecognized by MMC.

"As to how this has happened, only the JPA knows the answer," he said.

"Initially, I felt elated when picked (by the JPA) to study in a developed country like Japan. But if this problem continues, me and the others who will graduate soon, will suffer," he said.

He called for the JPA to initiate necessary measures as the MMC planned to send a delegation to Akita University to evaluate its medical degree programme.

Meanwhile the graduate's father said:" Any parents would be heart-wrenched with what has happened to my son. His hopes of serving as a doctor in his country of birth, which is experiencing acute shortage of medical officers, went up in smoke due to bureaucratic red tape".

"Does this mean that doctors who graduated from universities in developed nations like Japan are not fit to serve in Malaysia," asked the graduate's father.

-- BERNAMA
http://bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news_lite.php?id=72521
________
Laguna Bay Condo Prathumnak (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

greyhair
10-06-2004, 08:38 PM
i oso c this news in ntv 7......dunno what is jpa doing???

is any1 here is offering med 2 japan by jpa?

ElansarGelmir
11-06-2004, 02:01 AM
Hmm... i thought those sponsored to Japan peeps are supposed to study engineering only? since when they do medic?

chenchow
11-06-2004, 02:32 AM
I think JPA realized about it. JPA has not been sending to Japan for medicine for the past many years, definitely not from my year. The guy that was sent was SPM 94, as he has spent 2 years in Malaysia and then sent to Japan in 1997.

Nevertheless, I think JPA should look into this issue. Perhaps, lets wait for the comments from JPA on tomorrow's paper.

Schye
11-06-2004, 12:05 PM
JPA, apa sudah jadi?
KUALA LUMPUR 10 Jun - Seorang graduan perubatan lulusan Jepun yang dihantar ke negara itu oleh Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam (JPA) kecewa kerana ijazah yang diperolehnya tidak diiktiraf di negara ini.

Graduan itu, yang menganggur sejak pulang ke Malaysia setahun lepas, berkata beliau terkejut apabila diberitahu oleh JPA sendiri bahawa ijazah perubatan dari Universiti Akita, iaitu universiti pilihan JPA, tidak diiktiraf oleh Majlis Perubatan Malaysia (MMC).

``Bayangkan kehampaan dan kekecewaan saya setelah tujuh tahun berhempas pulas untuk mendapat ijazah perubatan di Jepun tetapi mendapati usaha saya itu sia-sia,'' kata graduan berusia 27 tahun itu yang enggan namanya disiarkan.

Graduan itu, yang datang ke ibu pejabat Bernama di sini dari Kedah hari ini bersama ibu bapanya, berkata bahawa sebelum berlepas ke Jepun pada 1997, beliau mengikuti kursus persediaan selama dua tahun di Universiti Malaya di sini, termasuk mempelajari bahasa Jepun.

Apa yang beliau persoalkan ialah kenapakah JPA, yang menaja sepenuhnya biasiswanya untuk mengikuti kursus perubatan itu, menghantarnya ke universiti yang ijazah perubatan tidak diiktiraf di Malaysia.

Beliau berkata senarai ijazah perubatan dari Jepun yang diiktiraf oleh MMC boleh dipertikaikan kewajarannya kerana ijazah dari Universiti Tokyo yang merupakan universiti paling terkemuka di Jepun dan Universiti Chiba, juga tidak diiktiraf oleh majlis itu.

``Ini memang pelik, kerana beberapa universiti yang diiktiraf oleh MMC adalah universiti yang mempunyai ranking (kedudukan) lebih rendah daripada Universiti Tokyo atau Universiti Chiba yang merupakan antara lima universiti teratas di Jepun,'' katanya.

Ijazah perubatan dari Universiti Tokyo diiktiraf di Jepun sebagai yang berprestij.

Graduan perubatan itu juga berkata, kini terdapat 19 lagi pelajar Malaysia yang mengikuti kursus perubatan di Jepun tajaan JPA menerusi Dasar Pandang ke Timur?en termasuk 10 orang di universiti yang juga tidak diiktiraf ijazah perubatannya oleh MMC.

``Bagaimana ini boleh berlaku? Hanya JPA sahaja bertanggungjawab untuk menjawabnya,'' katanya.

Menurut pelajar itu, pada mulanya beliau sungguh gembira kerana dipilih untuk belajar ke negara maju seperti Jepun tetapi jika masalah itu tidak diatasi, graduan seperti beliau dan rakan-rakan lain yang akan tamat pengajian, berasa teraniaya.

Sambil merayu JPA supaya mengambil tindakan segera mengatasi masalah itu, graduan itu mencadangkan agar MMC menghantar satu rombongan ke Universiti Akita untuk menilai ijazah perubatan yang ditawarkan oleh universiti itu bagi tujuan pengiktirafan.

Ayah kepada graduan perubatan itu pula berkata: ``Ibu bapa mana yang tidak patah hati dengan apa yang berlaku ke atas anak saya. Segala harapan tinggi anak saya untuk berkhidmat sebagai doktor di negara sendiri yang dilaung-laungkan begitu kekurangan doktor, berkecai disebabkan kerenah dan kelemahan birokrasi.''

``Adakah ini bermakna doktor yang dihasilkan oleh universiti di negara maju seperti Jepun tidak layak untuk menjadi doktor di Malaysia?'' soal beliau. - Bernama

from:
http://utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2004&dt=0611&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Dalam_Negeri&pg=dn_01.htm

Schye
11-06-2004, 12:15 PM
My email is flooded with mails form Juniors worrying that their college are not recognised. IN FACT there are still colleges thave havent being recognised here.
I have emailed the "Look East Policy " officers and the answer we had is "Belum diiktifar dan bukannya tidak diiktiraf". They said they are planning to have a visit to those colleges that havent being recognised soon (which was around summer last year) but it seems that until now, there is still no news about that...

To those who want to check either if the course they are taking in their university or college is recognised by Malaysia Government, you may refer to the link below:

http://www.eghrmis.gov.my/indeks.asp?url=iktiraf

(including universities/colleges around the WORLD)

wwhong
11-06-2004, 01:17 PM
i think the best they can do now is evaluate the program that student underwent and see if they can recognize it asap. I dun think a medical degree from Japan is so worthless.

really feel sad....the government said wanna tackle the brain drain problem but at the same time they are causing the problem. is m'sia going to be a knowledge workers exporter? There are already quite a huge number of professionals unwilliing to come back and now they are chasing those who want to do so?

naturesimple
11-06-2004, 08:24 PM
just wonder what is the qualification of a degree from certain university to be recognised by government???

chenchow
11-06-2004, 08:30 PM
I think it is based on the recognition of the Professional groups, Malaysian Medical Council, Engineers Board etc..

dinna_g
12-06-2004, 12:26 AM
jpa needs to do something about this. not only they've wasted the students' time, they've also wasted the government money, which can potentially be used to other programs.

speaking of which, i wonder how good is the medical program in russia and/or ukraine. it seems like jpa is sending so many students there nowadays. anybody knows?

ElansarGelmir
12-06-2004, 01:04 AM
Hmm.... I wonder how come most of our local unis are not even on par with the Japan unis and yet they are recognized... Malaysia, malaysia, what has thou done to thy nation?

aquila
12-06-2004, 01:18 AM
Question question... are US medical degrees recognized by MMC?
I know that Singapore recognizes medical degrees from ~10 US universities only.

The_Observer
12-06-2004, 12:51 PM
Trivia:
What do you call the lowest scoring graduate from the most lousy medical school?

Answer: A doctor.

I hope I am not the only medical student here on this topic (can anybody else share my 'burden'?).
In reply to the posts written so far,

1. The Government has cocked up again! Not surprised... I wonder whether they pay any attention to healthcare in our country. In Australia, 'Medicare' had become a big issue (considering theres an election at the end of the year..)

2. Tokyo Uni and Kyoto Uni medic degrees are really good!

3. Medicine research in Japan is right there among the top. In terms of practice, not so sure...but since it is a developed country...I give them the benefit of the doubt.

4. The only medical degree thats worth it from Russia or Ukraine is the one from Moscow Uni. The rest are paper printed from a Canon Bubblejet printer. But....see the trivia at the top of the post. The forces of capitalism conspires against common sense.

5. Degree recognition is based mainly on the uni's reputation. But of course, 'under the table' deals could also have the same effect. Our Government may also be trying to 'buy low sell high' with its human resources.

6. The MMA recognizes degrees from around 88 medical schools in the US.

gohweihan
12-06-2004, 02:24 PM
Malaysia, with no universities offering medical degrees that are accepted by the World Health Organization, is trying to downplay the degrees by Japanese colleges?

The Malaysian government is really living in it's false sense of superiority.

gohweihan
12-06-2004, 02:29 PM
4. The only medical degree thats worth it from Russia or Ukraine is the one from Moscow Uni. The rest are paper printed from a Canon Bubblejet printer. But....see the trivia at the top of the post. The forces of capitalism conspires against common sense.

Actually, there's another university that is quite good in Ukraine (forgot the name, but it's not Crimea) and is on par with Moscow, which degrees are recognized throughout Europe and the WHO.

Yet the Malaysian government still does not want to recognize that degree.

chenchow
12-06-2004, 07:08 PM
To those who are studying abroad, before you enroll, irrespective of whether you are on scholarships or your own, go to:-

http://www.eghrmis.gov.my/indeks.asp?url=iktiraf

and check for yourself whether your course & university is recognized.

gohweihan
12-06-2004, 11:46 PM
Actually, the degrees might be recognized now, but not so in the future. According to reports, the universities in which these students were sent to in Japan last time was recognized, but not any longer after the year 2001.

morpheous
13-06-2004, 09:28 PM
another lim kit siang's media statement that morpheous like to share...



Musa?s ignorance about University of Malaya admitting
students from a private college to its medical faculty
for three years is another example of the Education
Minister stumbling from one blunder to another
Media Statement
by Lim Kit Siang

(Petaling Jaya, Friday): Just a week ago, Education
Minister Tan Sri Musa Mohamad said he was unaware that
70 students from the Perak College of Medicine (PCM)
had been admitted into University of Malaya?s medical
faculty this year without having to undergo the
government?s central processing selection system (UPU)
and that his Ministry had not given its approval to
any private college to collaborate with public
universities in the medical course. He asked for an
explanation from the University of Malaya.

This followed complaints by University of Malaya
students over such intakes as the private college
students generally obtained lower grades during their
SPM, STPM to matriculation programmes.

A comparative studies provided by the students showed
some of the private college students have grades as
low as 3.68 of their cumulative grade point average
(CGPA), C4 and C5 in science subjects during their
STPM or matriculation, while students admitted through
the UPU system are mostly straight As students or
having obtained 4.0 CGPA (the highest point).

Malaysiakini reported yesterday that the Universiti
Malaya medical faculty had sent a written explanation
to the Education Minister about its involvement in a
twinning programme with the Perak-based private
medical college. An officer from the vice-chancellor?s
office said however that the explanation was not meant
for the public.

This anti-information attitude from a public
university is totally unacceptable in the era of
information and communications technology with ever
higher citizen expectations of accountability,
transparency and good governance from public
institutions.

There is no denial that Universiti Malaya accepted
160 students into its medical faculty based on the UPU
system this year and another 70 students from the PCM
or that such practices of admitting students from the
PCM to the UM medical faculty had been going on for
the previous two years since 2001.

The question is how the Education Minister could be so
ignorant and uninformed of such practices, not just
this year but for three years since 2001, and if the
Education Ministry had not given any approval to any
private college to collaborate with public
universities in the medical college, how could the
Universiti Malaya medical faculty furnish any
satisfactory explanation to the Education Minister?

Is the refusal of Universiti Malaya to make public
its explanation to the Education Minister on the
matter purely to save the face of Musa, who seems to
be stumbling from one blunder to another as Education
Minister since his appointment after the 1999 general
election?

This is a matter of grave public interest, raising the
legitimate question whether the 70 places allocated to
the PCM should have been allocated in a more fair and
just manner through the UPU system, especially as
Universiti Malaya admitted only one Indian student to
its medical faculty for this year's intake compared
with 16 places previously.

MIC President and Works Minister, Datuk Seri S. Samy
Vellu had vociferously protested against the
unfairness of admitting only one Indian student into
the Universiti Malaya medical faculty using a most
dubious system of meritocracy characterized by its
lack of merit, but his complaint that the Indians in
Malaysia had been crying for 140 years against
injustices had not led to any additional Indian
student intake into the UM medical faculty.

Musa should explain the full circumstances for the
intake of PCM students into the Universiti Malaya
medical faculty since 2001, as it had further
undermined public trust and confidence in the
so-called ?meritocracy? university admission system
and why he had been ignorant about it for the past
three years.

Musa had recently been dogged by one blunder after
another in the Education Ministry, such as:

* The scandal in the construction of school
computer laboratories, when two years after the
deadline to complete the first phase of the project to
build computer laboratories in schools, only 68% had
been completed, and even more shocking, that 487 of
the 600 computer laboratories in primary and secondary
schools in Pahang, Terengganu and Kelantan are unfit
for use, and 87 of the schools have roofs that are in
danger of collapsing; and
* The low academic standards of the Crimea State
Medical University, which is recognized by the
Malaysian Government and which has about 550 Malaysian
students mostly doing medicine ? standards which are
?below par compared with some of those in Malaysia?.
(18/7/2003)
pls note the last paragraph..about crimea state medical uni.
morpheous wonders how did the 550 msian students ended there?thro JPA or other channels??is it really "below par standard"??hmm...? :roll:

pandaboy
14-06-2004, 08:24 PM
4. The only medical degree thats worth it from Russia or Ukraine is the one from Moscow Uni. The rest are paper printed from a Canon Bubblejet printer. But....see the trivia at the top of the post. The forces of capitalism conspires against common sense.

Actually, there's another university that is quite good in Ukraine (forgot the name, but it's not Crimea) and is on par with Moscow, which degrees are recognized throughout Europe and the WHO.

Yet the Malaysian government still does not want to recognize that degree.

is it because the malaysian government doesnt recogise the degree or the MMA doesnt recognise? i think mma is the one to be blamed rite? the malaysian medical association?

chenchow
14-06-2004, 10:36 PM
Malaysian Medical Council (MMC) is the one that does the evaluation. JPA basically recognized any university that MMC recognizes for medicine.

And based on MMC explanation is that they have to be strict in their evaluation, as by randomly approving universities, other countries would not look upon the accreditation by MMC.

Riang
15-06-2004, 02:22 PM
Wld. like to join the thread on medical university recognition by MMC and LAN in Malaysia.

Actually I wonder how MMC and LAN can accredit ANY university as being of a high standard when NOT EVEN ONE university in Malaysia is accreditated by WHO until now? In Russia as of 2004, there are several top universities recognised by the WHO and have even produced Nobel / other scientific award winners as individuals or as teams. That is why Russia, and also China now, is determined to get as big a market share as possible before the pricing goes higher.
I have also found that the majority of the Russian Universities medical graduates can be employed or can do their specialisation in US, UK and Europe easily because their degrees are recognised compared with medical graduates from Malaysian Unis which can only go to the traditional unis in UK/Aust and some other limited places.

I wonder when are we going to throw away the shackles of our British "colonisation" and look at the better places of educational excellence which Malaysians have never been able to go to before because those countries - eg China, Russia, Scandinavian countries - were not open to us foreigners before despite their great traditions of excellence in science and medicine for so many centuries.

I also recall that when I was younger anything Japanese was "bad and low quality" eg. comments such as "kereta tin Milo" were common. But look which country is laughing to the bank now?

Sorry, just my two cents worth. Riang.

The_Observer
15-06-2004, 03:59 PM
Russia has brilliant academicians, politics, soldiers...that I know...but by putting their universities into 'mass-production' mode (something Russians do very well in!) in order to cater for international demand...suspicion begin to be sown in my heart. I am afterall talking about Malaysian students trying to get a medical education in Russia. Aeronautical engineering or rocketry is a different story.

Trivia: Why is Ukraine a very good place for specialization, especially oncology?

Answer: One word..Chernobyl.

Moscow and Moscow State undoubtably produce quality which even the US uni.s find hard to compete with. But the other universities are suspect...I'm sad to say...i mean like Crimea...even Russians dun aim to get into there for cripes sake...then why do we bother to send students there. Why send JPA scholars to such places? For privately funded students...hmmph...I dun dare to comment much.

NB: I would really want to know to who those students who got trhough to MU, are connected to or how much they 'paid' for it...

PS: We suffer from traditional US-British 'rivalry' to which right now we are at a disadvantage, coming from our colonial days. One century ago, it was the other way around. But this is a separate topic altogether.

gohweihan
15-06-2004, 08:44 PM
Moscow and Moscow State undoubtably produce quality which even the US uni.s find hard to compete with. But the other universities are suspect...I'm sad to say...i mean like Crimea...even Russians dun aim to get into there for cripes sake...then why do we bother to send students there. Why send JPA scholars to such places? For privately funded students...hmmph...I dun dare to comment much.

It was supposed that Crimea was to be recognized by the MMC and the Malaysian government. However, recent events had shown otherwise. The students who went there were optimistic that they would have a degree recognized by the time the graduate, but it might not be the case now.

Crimea is ranked around 7th place in Ukraine. Yet it was the only university that was potentially to be recognized. Therefore, students who want to go to Ukraine had no choice at that time, but to be optimistic about the status of Crimea, although it is not the best in Ukraine.

wawa
15-06-2004, 10:55 PM
What about China? My friend was thinking of doing Med in Beijing University or UNiversity of Hong KOng. Are both unis recognized by MMC?

Steppe
17-06-2004, 04:32 PM
The medical degree from a few Uni in China is recognised only upon the medical graduate coming back to Malaysia after graduation from China to sit for the exams (I think it is the exams set by UM, not too sure whether this is in BM or English). If he passes the test, he is qualified to be a doctor.

I cannot recall how much are the fees in China but I think it is also very expensive.

As for Hong Kong U, the situation is like Singapore U. It is almost impossible to get a place to study medical in these 2 countries.

wild_card_my
03-07-2004, 06:53 PM
To those who are studying abroad, before you enroll, irrespective of whether you are on scholarships or your own, go to:-

http://www.eghrmis.gov.my/indeks.asp?url=iktiraf

and check for yourself whether your course & university is recognized.

I don't see 'Biotech' in the list of majors. May I know if there's any way around this?

chenchow
04-07-2004, 12:45 AM
On the left hand side, there is a maklumbalas, there is no harm sending an email out and ask. I believe there isn't been any of this accreditation yet on this field.

One thing to know, this accreditation is for those who wish to work with government services and may be some professional services.

Biotech seems to be a gray area... So, I would suggest you go and ask.