Do you really need BRAINS to be a Good Doctor??

[corn2head]

Well I have few friends that are very keen in taking medic.. but the one thing that is stopping them from doing do is that they'r not that smart! It's tough for them to get 4.00.

So is it possible to take up medic in malaysia without being a genius!!?? Does medic require only top scorers??

[kevinkhoo1986]

I have seen so many students are trying to take medicine. It would be a tough competition to enrol to local U. So i think they(government) might only choose the best among the best students to obtain this course. Or else it would provoke another sensitive issues which was just happened recently.

[kelvinlym]

I think you need brains cos we're talking about human lives at stake.

So if there is more demand than places offered, the universities have the right to be picky in only choosing the best.

[iQing]

I think u need guts more than brain.

let?s say u r genious but run to the toilette when U see blood.. ?
or when u see hairy stuff...

[janewai]

Well I have few friends that are very keen in taking medic.. but the one thing that is stopping them from doing do is that they'r not that smart! It's tough for them to get 4.00.

So is it possible to take up medic in malaysia without being a genius!!?? Does medic require only top scorers??

feel like the topic of this thread is not really match with the situation above. :roll:

[kevinkhoo1986]

I guess the gist of it is.... Brain power + Guts .With so many top scorers choose medicine as their courses of choice, i think they will choose the cream de la cream.

[chenchow]

I would say that one important aspect would be to really see what is the purpose one wants to be a doctor.

Frankly, I would say that a doctor needs to have strong analytical skills. there is no need to memorize, internet is freely available, and what the doctor needs to know is how to assess the situation, find out how to rescue the patients at the shortest time.. The doctor must be committed to the job, which is yet another important aspect.

[iQing]

From what I have heard many form 5 graduates like to learn medicine. Do you have any idea where there?s such trend....?

I believe most of them r still not sure what to learn in thier future...
or maybe they learn doctor for financial security in the future...

how many of them are genuine?

[aquila]

Impt NOTE: BEing a top scorer doesn't necessarily mean you're a genius. Just ask around and you'll know what I mean. Accidents happen sometimes to real geniuses. And some folks who diligently study get their reward. Others are lucky, etc.

It is important to be smart to be a doctor, no doubt. However, I think other things must be taken into account as well. Let there be a cut off point (say min 3.8) After that, judge students according to their involvement in other activities. Some students are exam smart but social idiots. Doctors have to be sociable and likable because they interact with patients everyday. A lot of interpersonal skills should come into play as well.

[Diesel]

yes, you need a brain that can tell you not to leave gunting dalam perut orang.

[kevinkhoo1986]

From what I have heard many form 5 graduates like to learn medicine. Do you have any idea where there?s such trend....?

I believe most of them r still not sure what to learn in thier future...
or maybe they learn doctor for financial security in the future...

how many of them are genuine?

I wondered why suddenly so many of my friends are interested in taking medicine. Do they really understand what does a doctor do? In my opinion, probably they thought they are going to earn a lot of money in the future or they were influenced by their relatives.

[The_Observer]

Please la...dun insult my profession. To cap it up, we have to have nearly every good trait out there to be a good doctor. I agree most with chenchow...I admit we have too many ppl doing medic for all the wrong reasons...but I have no right to question them about this...too bad.

I know that the medical field pays off a lot...
I can sympathize with iQing and kevin, I would have liked idealistic doctors rather than materialistic ones...but the world is not perfect and I can't help it. There is no sense of scruples or moral responsibility anymore in this world is there? Everybody trying to grab as much as they could before they die...and I always thought that doctors were supposed to be above that...well, The_Observer, welcome to reality.


REMINDER:
You can't earn big bucks as a GP. Its the specialists who does. And to do that, you will be needing a minimum of 5 yrs in uni, 4 yrs intern/houseman/registrar and 5 yrs of post-grad training. And that's 14 yrs....14 yrs is a long, long time.

[weich]

at one time in my life, I actually wanted to become a doctor but that changed when I went for a career talk...so I'm gonna share abit with you here:

so if the 1st question that comes to your mind when you think of a job is MONEY, then you shouldn't be a doctor, go find another job...

doctors are here to save ppl, and the ppl love them because they are life-savers, so for all of you out there who are not interested in helping ppl, don't do medicine!

And about whether you need brains? Yeah...of course you need one! The best doctors out there are not the ones who can memorise very well! You need talent as well, -->not everyone can do a brain surgery for you?

Anyway, if you study medicine it's not necessary that you become a doctor, you can actually branch out to do research like what ppl are promoting here in the UK.....there are still many parts of the human body that we do not understand!

[Steppe]

Please read this letter ....... the writer has got a good point http://www.thestar.com.my/news/archives/story.asp?ppath=\2004\6\13&file=/2004/6/13/features/8201338&sec=features

[iQing]

Please read this letter ....... the writer has got a good point http://www.thestar.com.my/news/archives/story.asp?ppath=\2004\6\13&file=/2004/6/13/features/8201338&sec=features


good article!!!
thanx for sharing...

boy, this writer is good at writing... he must be another genious...

[chenchow]

Steppe, thanks for the great articles.

It is a great article and I would say that everyone, not only potential medicine students should read it...

It brings upon human nature and many things are multi-faceted. Even like you are constructing a bridge, you should not only looking at get your bridge done at the lowest cost, but look at whether your construction process would cause misery to others, would you endanger the life of others during the process, how about your workers, do you pay them on time? It is a social responsibility... And when I am in ReCom, I look at in that way too, it is a way for me to reach out and try to share what I know, learn what I don't know and share it again...

[iQing]

I think we should copy and keep this article because eNewspapers update all the time and I scare it will lost in the future. what do u think chenchow? I mean having a storeroom for very good articles...

[chenchow]

I would advise those who enjoy to keep it and I will do that too. And if anyone later on wants it, they would get it from those who have it. This is because of the copyright law, that ReCom may face prosecution by those companies for publishing the entire article online. But personal exchange should be no problem. We used to copy entire articles for some time, but later we found that action is illegal.

Another article for everyone's consumption:-

http://www.bharian.com.my/m/BHarian/Monday/Nasional/20040613232708/Article/

[iQing]

I would advise those who enjoy to keep it and I will do that too. And if anyone later on wants it, they would get it from those who have it. This is because of the copyright law, that ReCom may face prosecution by those companies for publishing the entire article online. But personal exchange should be no problem. We used to copy entire articles for some time, but later we found that action is illegal.

Another article for everyone's consumption:-

http://www.bharian.com.my/m/BHarian/Monday/Nasional/20040613232708/Article/


what if we gather those good articles and convert them into one compact zip file... this is alright right?
hope we can download these zip files of good articles

[littlebigone]

I don't think zipping the documents would circumvent the copyright issue. If it is hosted on the site, they we are still providing copyrighted material to the public.

However, I think that if you zip it and keep it for yourself and announce on Recom that you have so and so articles, then Recom won't be in any trouble.

[pandaboy]

Did anyone read the story about a GP in StarMag (Heart And Soul) real life story? That story was touching, and I didnt manage to keep that article. It will be nice if someone is able to post it here ....and share with others. It's about a GP/ or a consultant... (i've forgotten) who always wonder whether he should go for private sector as most of his fren already driving a BMW. Then he experience something that changed his mind... ^_^ . Really interesting...

[The_Observer]

T_T...I found the article touching. I found myself nodding with every paragraph. Very nostalgic for me....

BTW, I would like to confirm that we do need lots of medical researchers...you can be surprised how complicated the human body is and God knows, how many things can go wrong!
A lot of disorders due to an 'idiopathic' nature...check it up a dictionary if you need to.
And I promise you (unless something goes awfully wrong) that there wil be demand and they are well paid, well...at least outside Malaysia.

[SHuLy]

ya'know, people tend to say that doctors earn big bucks, drive sporty cars, have the latest tech-y stuff..and all. ok, these doctors are in one category.

but lets look at another point of view. how much does it cost to fund a medical student privately? it'll be cheaper if we chuck the kid into public university, but, will there be a place for him/her? ok, now we have no other choice than to put the kid into private university. indonesia might be an affordable place, but then again, how many are willing to go there? those dedicated ones perhaps..but as for the rest, the dream of becoming a MD is a mere...well, dream.

the amount of money spent by parents to send their young uns abroad is not calculated. this is perhaps due to the fact that these parents are already 'well-funded'. thus, giving the kid ample of cash to save when he practises. unlike those on a loan, or thinking of repaying the parents in terms of cash, then there will be a deficit in money for a very, very long time...say, 6+3+3 = 12 years! i repeat myself....12 years! for some, even longer

imagine where we can invest that $800 000! (this is just a rough figure. i don't know how much it actually cost. perhaps some of u can correct me if i am wrong). so, again, if u think that doctors are earning a lot, think again! you only SEE those who are earning a lot because they are conspicuous-with all those stuff that they are showing. those who are really dedicated are earning merely what is respectfully theirs. doctors who earn a lot might be a good doctor and might not be one too. they could have earned a high income due to their expensive consultation fees. those doctors who truly have a heart in helping might have reduced their fees, affordable for the patients. sometimes, when you cut somebody up (sorry for the terms, but it is an easy way to say), you need not cut the wallet too!

so again, those into medicine for money, there is a possibilty that you will never laugh your way to the bank. say, even if you do, beware! you can be drained of whatever little you have due to patients suing you for malpractice! lawyers are roaming around for this!

[The_Observer]

Lesson:
Make a lot of Law friends

I have quite a number....

[iQing]

as we have agreed, we should show the link and not the whole article...
it has infringed some publication rights law....
so showing us the link is enought....

[Steppe]

Sorry... perhaps the administrator of this website/anchor/moderator? can help to remove it for me now that anybody interested has read it.

This article has been archived by STAR and it needs an id and password to get in. Hence, showing a link is no use. Anyway, this article will be gone after 30 days, that is by 22/6 in archive.

[chenchow]

I have deleted it. I think having the link is fine, although it just works for a month. So, everyone has a month to read on it. Hope everyone understand the reason behind not posting the whole articles.

[ingshan]

Yeah...a doctor firstly need brain to start with...then slowly build up the guts to do the 'things' a doctor should do...

But the most important thing they must have is a compassionate heart...a heart that care for the life of their patients and the people around them...not their patients money nor just hoping to get fame through the name "DR."

THAT is a doctor...

[iQing]

this reminds me of the charactor frank abagnail in the film
catch me is u can

he become a doctor easily but when he sees blood he.... hehe

[Randomphantom]

hmmm.. intelligent(to pass the exams), responsible, dexterous(to handle sharp objects), quick wits(split second decisions), stamina(withstand extreme amounts of pressure), stomach(able to face the gore), compassionate(yet kind to patients), etc etc... such perfection this profession entails. What are the chances of someone possessing all these qualities?

Then again, doctors are still human beings. They can't be all perfect. Is requiring a doctor hopeful to possess all these qualities asking for too much? (then again... when you're under the scalpel...)

[The_Observer]

Lets just say, we are trying our best....but we are not perfect.
But, we are trying our very best...I do hope this is the case with every medical student or doctor.

[naturesimple]

let's share this story...
my school principal has 2 children , 1 daughter n 1 son. boh r taking medicine. but the son is doing it in cambrige under jpa whle his daughter is in imu. the son is suffering in cambrige because...u know what. on the oppsite side his daughter is so relaks n even has time to watch tv!!!
moral of the story : avoid going cambrige except u r a genius! n non- genius can be doctors too!

[The_Observer]

I guess its more of a preference rather than a norm...actually medical students can be the most notorious of slackers in university...even overseas!

Its always the case during the pre-clinical years....

[ElansarGelmir]

and oh yeah... the main characteristic of a doctor... To SERVE! not to gain MONEY!!!

if all doctors work for money, then everyone can't afford docs... i really despise docs who overcharge patients...

[pandaboy]

let's share this story...
my school principal has 2 children , 1 daughter n 1 son. boh r taking medicine. but the son is doing it in cambrige under jpa whle his daughter is in imu. the son is suffering in cambrige because...u know what. on the oppsite side his daughter is so relaks n even has time to watch tv!!!
moral of the story : avoid going cambrige except u r a genius! n non- genius can be doctors too!

is it because of the teaching system in cambridge? as far as i know, cambridge uses a different approach to teach thier medical students.....called the traditional system... i'm not sure. It's different compared to other unis in UK..

[The_Observer]

The traditional way?
You mean the "all you can stuff" style where you cram all sorts of details in your head until even if you knock your head on a concrete wall, the wall cracks???

BTW, I agree with Elansar a lot. But I think for those ultra-hard specialties like neurosurgery...the money you pay sure does match the workload!

[naturesimple]

traditional way??? i'm not sure about it . but what i mean is that they will force u by making u ( let say a degree holder) to group with masters or phd holders when assignment or anything like that. then means u have to prepare damn well before discussion or presenting ideas

[Randomphantom]

Although compassion is seen as an important quality for doctors, doctors should not be emotionally attached to their patients, else it will also affect their mental health. Some of these doctors have seen so much deaths and pain that they are already desensitised to their patients sufferings. To ask them to be compassionate for each and every patient is asking a lot out of them.

[The_Observer]

I agree with Randomphantom...it is a quite fine line between being compassionate and imperturbable.
Saying that, one must pity an oncologist...not mistaken recent surveys show like 60-80% mortality rate among consulting patients. And of course, battlefield surgeons (my most respected type of doctor).

BTW, what I said abt the traditional way is indeed the traditional way.
Hardcore cramming and mugging...survive or die!

[ElansarGelmir]

Perhaps most of our students haven't realized the high expectations from the doctors... that's why everyone's like die die must become a doctor...

Hmm... i think docs should be friendly to patients and not arrogant just because they are going to save the latter's life or ameliorate their pain or whatsoever... They have to remember they are under the service industry, and service also requires good social skills and good rapport with patients...

I injured my heel last 3 weeks and went to see the doc... i told the doc that my heel hurt a lot and i couldn't even walk (i had to limp wherever i go...), and that doc gave me a cynical look and say, "i think it is IMPOSSIBLE to hurt that much, since you just hit it on the ground. but if you INSIST that it is painful, then i suggest you to go for X-ray test... Else, how could i know how really PAINFUL you are." (the italic words are the words that he emphasized loudly on).... I will never see the doc again, unless i really have to.

[iQing]

<img src=http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:xJRH1tS6hzMJ:nation.ittefaq.com/artman/uploads/mahathir.jpg>


he?s also a doctor

[The_Observer]

Actually Elansar...if the doctor said something like this to you...

"I know such kind of injuries does hurt a lot but then, it takes time to heal itself up...so for the mean time I can give you something that can sooth a bit, not all, of the pain. But, it is not a definite treatment...you must not try to aggravate it and let it heal properly"

Would you be satisfied? Just asking....
(NB: I am under the impression you have a tendon injury)

I know of cases where ppl actually gave a scolding or talk behind his/her back when a doctor says as above...

Anyway, that doctor does need another lesson in communication with patients...is he a private GP or what?

[Steppe]

Please read this as this may change the norm perception?

http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/6/26/nation/8297447&sec=nation

[iQing]

i will say if it?s successful doctors might face the risk of losing jobs..

if it?s a failure... patients are risking thier lives with the operation...

(just my opinion)

[ElansarGelmir]

Actually Elansar...if the doctor said something like this to you...

"I know such kind of injuries does hurt a lot but then, it takes time to heal itself up...so for the mean time I can give you something that can sooth a bit, not all, of the pain. But, it is not a definite treatment...you must not try to aggravate it and let it heal properly"

Would you be satisfied? Just asking....
(NB: I am under the impression you have a tendon injury)

I know of cases where ppl actually gave a scolding or talk behind his/her back when a doctor says as above...

Anyway, that doctor does need another lesson in communication with patients...is he a private GP or what?

Yeap, i left that clinic and went to see another doc who said that to me (coz the first doc didn't give me any medication. Tempted to write a letter of complain to the clinic (it's a partnership clinic)).

[iQing]

last time i hv an unpleasant experience with a doctor as well...
he?s india graduate..
he gives me a lot of medicine and antiseptic for my sore thoat..
after many days my soar thoat didn?t get better...

u know how I cure my soar throat?
I take some strepsiles and it cures....

from then onwards I never go to that doctor again...

[The_Observer]

Elansar, I think you should...medical professionals tend to have a shroud (egoistic) that makes them unaware of surroundings...the least you can do is remind him of his basic skills...

To iQing:

You know wht I am thinking? I dunno what is his prescription is but I think the Strepsils work because of what the drugs already did in you.
Did you finish the entire course?
BTW, never associate the disappearance of symptoms as a sign of being cured....

[iQing]

Elansar, I think you should...medical professionals tend to have a shroud (egoistic) that makes them unaware of surroundings...the least you can do is remind him of his basic skills...

To iQing:

You know wht I am thinking? I dunno what is his prescription is but I think the Strepsils work because of what the drugs already did in you.
Did you finish the entire course?
BTW, never associate the disappearance of symptoms as a sign of being cured....


haha...
i would say that?s a good advice of yours... thanx...
i finished the whole course still the soar throat gets worse..
until I am fed up and I take strepsils....
it cures entirely and doesn?t come back again....
sore throat is not viral infection so I dun have to worry it...

[hungwei]

Anyone doing surgical course here? I'm wondering how it feels to be slitting someone open like some frog specimen.Of course, a surgeon knows what he's doing but wouldn't you feel under extreme pressure? (Do surgeons even feel anything at all?)

[The_Observer]

1 gets to do surgery after your medical training (5, 6 or 7 years) then you must do your internship and housemanship/residentship which usually is about 4 years before you go for postgraduate studies like surgery.

So best case scenario, anyone studying surgery is nearly 30 yrs old. Not that many of those kind of ppl on ReCom, mate.

All I can offer you are dissections on cadavers...still want to know?

[SHuLy]

recently, i read a letter submitted in to the Star, and if i am not mistaken, it was something about sexual harrasment of doctors...or somewhere near that context.

how do we assure that doctors treating you are not inclined to think "dirty"? even if they are, you won't know, as you would perceive doctors to be "professional".

so, how do we ensure that we only produce professional doctors?

sigh...."doctors"!

[youngyew]

Answering the original question - Hmm.. it depends on how you define a "genius". Some people think that "get 14A1 in SPM" = genius, while some others would recognize genius as one who has innate talent in one or more than one particular field, and would achieve the same (or better) performance with less effort. For me the definition is certainly the latter.

If you take genius as those who score straight A1s, I would say, no, not necessarily. As the_observer and a lot others have said in this thread, being a doctor is much more than memorising facts, signs, symptoms, diagnosis and treatment. In most medical courses, training in communication skills and ethics constitute half of the course duration, so you can see the importance of non-academic aspect in doctors. Besides, for those straight A1 scorers who have been dependent on regurgitation instead of smart study, they would certainly suffer throughout their medical course because you would never be able to swallow medical textbooks. They would still make it through, hopefully, by studying all day long and living no life, but, they suffer. In the worst case, people can't stand the stress and drop out from the course.

If you take the genius in the sense of the second definition, I would say that not all genius would help. Analytical genius (those who understand concepts very fast) would adapt to the medical course better, as they would spend less time understanding the concepts and relationships and hence less time cramming the facts without understanding. Maybe this kind of person is those slackers that the_observer has mentioned earlier. Communication genius would be another advantaged person in the course, as you would stand an upper hand when it comes to clinical interaction. And certainly, memory genius would certainly help you in medical course too.

To sum it up, certain genius is an advantage, but it is certainly not a prerequisite. In fact, my sisters have always been saying that, "aiyarr... you don't need so much brain to study medicine one larr.."

[khor_albert]

Being an anybody NEEDS brains rite? Be it a garbage collector or doctor or anybody.....

Oh, I think I have just diverted the attention of cannons and snipers towards me.

[youngyew]

Being an anybody NEEDS brains rite? Be it a garbage collector or doctor or anybody.....

Oh, I think I have just diverted the attention of cannons and snipers towards me.
Haha, albert, I think what's meant by brain is intelligence and/or genius... :D

[khor_albert]

Ok then :oops: ....being a doctor needs more than just brains. I think being a great doctor requires ATTITUDE, MENTAL ENDURANCE, UNDERSTANDING ABILITY and MEMORISING POWER. A medic student may wanna rebut me but this is just my humble opinion. Take note of the order.

I will say attitude should come first. Our nation has a lot of specialists but are they providing their services with humanity? Most specialists will charge so high for their consultancy fees. I believe that the consultancy fees alone burden the patients so much. Poor patients can never get the exact treatment for complex diseases.

Mental endurance will pay off during the grueling seven years of study in medicine. If they get stressed out, there goes everything.
I need not explain understanding ability and memorising power.

[SercretMan]

i admit that there are a lot of doctors now but really lack of doctors with the right and proper attitude. Most ppl just feel that being a doctor, they can get fame and a lot of money. If u really want these, u can do biotech which is required nowadays. If u wan to be a docotr, plz ready to sacrifice urself, for the sake of community and urself too. It is a job for whole life, not like office work.

Somemore, doing medic, the most important is the diligence, patient, not emotional and resilience, u do not have to be the top scorers like those SPM students. U can determine wat u wan to be after f5, especially doing medicine. But if u are not that excellent and doing f6, please study st and dun ever think to be a doctor. STPM is very tough. It will be a hard time for u if u are really stubborn to do medicine in local U but u cant get 4.0 or rejected by local U. For A level or SAM or other foundation which is much easier, u can just go to the way u want.

[youngyew]

Somemore, doing medic, the most important is the diligence, patient, not emotional and resilience, u do not have to be the top scorers like those SPM students.
What do you mean by "not emotional and resilience"?

I do think that doctors need to have a certain level of empathy in the doctor-patient relationships. Yes, too much empathy would entail suffering in the doctor as the patient's condition deteriorates or even result in death; but then again, doctors need to be compassionate, empathic and at the same time strike a balance of detachment from the emotion so that he or she remains undisturbed in the patient's health condition.

Another thing, why is resilience not required for a doctor?

[beautiful_soul]

Ok then :oops: ....being a doctor needs more than just brains. I think being a great doctor requires ATTITUDE, MENTAL ENDURANCE, UNDERSTANDING ABILITY and MEMORISING POWER. A medic student may wanna rebut me but this is just my humble opinion. Take note of the order.

I will say attitude should come first. Our nation has a lot of specialists but are they providing their services with humanity? Most specialists will charge so high for their consultancy fees. I believe that the consultancy fees alone burden the patients so much. Poor patients can never get the exact treatment for complex diseases.

Mental endurance will pay off during the grueling seven years of study in medicine. If they get stressed out, there goes everything.
I need not explain understanding ability and memorising power.

totally second this! my brother is a 4th year medical student.. all of us have brains.. it's a matter of whether u wanna use your brains anot.. =)
but to be a doctor, social skills are important.. would u want to go to a doctor who can't even communicate with you properly? or one who shows up with a face darker than the sky when a storm is approaching? guess not..
u have to be hardworking, definitely! but to be a good doctor, your clinical skills are way more important n from wad i gather thru my brother, what u apply in clinical is rarely from the textbook! =)

just my thought..

[Randomphantom]

If you could do it over would you be a doctor (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=195799&page=1&pp=20) - Reading this thread puts the medicine profession into perspective.

I don't take the public opinion that full As / 4.0 = good doctor. If not geniuses, full As may only show some exam smarts and clever study techniques that will help one throughout his entire medicine course. It isn't an accurate estimator for being a good doctor.

Its the public that continues to fuel this idea that medicine is an exclusive profession reserved for only the cream of the crop as determined by an exam. Well, I simply don't understand. The only subjects I see required for medicine are chem, physics, math and biology, why some universities don't care about whether you took bio in F6 or not.

That's why english literature, art, economics, accounting, bible knowledge, subjects like this... I wonder for what purpose do they even exist. It looks like people take them solely for GETTING THAT A. To send the public a signal that you are good at ... what? Worthy of being a doctor? When I need a doctor, do I choose that doctor who has 10As over the other one who has 9?

A genius doctor = a good doctor? We want more geniuses in cutting edge fields like nanotech, quantum physics and bioengineering. To each his own, but for those clever sorts, practising medicine might sound like playing in a sandbox rather then being on the frontier, moving mountains. For those who want intellectual stimulation, research sounds like a better deal for them.

And then, in the end, we have tons of doctors who can study well. This is because public opinion dictates that those who can enter are top scorers. Then students will shift all of their effort and time to score As, for the sole aim of entering this profession. So they may study well, but can they practise well?

[Zeroth]

Intelligence is required, but not very important. Instead, its diligence, and the willingness to explore and learn. Not to mention having interest in the field. If one is a genius, but never bothered to read up, then one would not be a good doctor.

Social skills are extremely important for a doctor. Nearly every medical course in the world has a specific course to train on patient assesment skills. This trains the doctor to be able to make accurate diagnosis and judgement on the patient's problem.

[ngu]

i think we do not need to have good brain,just be an average person because to become a doctor you need determination,hardworking,that;s all apaart from being clever.i think we do not need bright students to become good doctors ,an average student is more than enough.

[youngyew]

i think we do not need to have good brain,just be an average person because to become a doctor you need determination,hardworking,that;s all apaart from being clever.i think we do not need bright students to become good doctors ,an average student is more than enough.
I beg to differ. Diligence is important, but it needs to be coupled with comprehension. An average student (I am referring to those with a string of B's and C's in SPM) may not have the sufficient cognitive skill to cope with the amount and depth of medical studies.

N.B.: I said may. That's a generalization, which assumes that students who get B and C in most subjects are those who are hardworking but are just not brilliant enough. Of course there are some who get mediocre result due to other reasons such as emotional disturbance etc, but that's in the minority.

[Zeroth]

yeap, that's true. Lectures will go on babbling facts you never heard of in every lecture and expect you to understand. One has to have a quick mind to catch what they mean else he will be lost.

BUT, public preception of a good doctor is:

A kind doctor. Simple as that.

:D

[libran_mei]

One can only heal sometimes, but all should comfort always. This is one quote i will bear in mind forever.

[youngyew]

Old doctors always tell this:

A doctor's job is to cure sometimes, to relieve often, to comfort always.

[ngu]

i think we do not need to have good brain,just be an average person because to become a doctor you need determination,hardworking,that;s all apaart from being clever.i think we do not need bright students to become good doctors ,an average student is more than enough.
I beg to differ. Diligence is important, but it needs to be coupled with comprehension. An average student (I am referring to those with a string of B's and C's in SPM) may not have the sufficient cognitive skill to cope with the amount and depth of medical studies.

N.B.: I said may. That's a generalization, which assumes that students who get B and C in most subjects are those who are hardworking but are just not brilliant enough. Of course there are some who get mediocre result due to other reasons such as emotional disturbance etc, but that's in the minority.

well,i am refering tis average sstudents as those who got 8A1 and above.

[noneedname2]

Do you really need BRAINS to be a Good Doctor??

Nope, you just need lots and lots of cash.

Why? Because you'll spend a fortune trying to grad med school, unless you're a scholar but still the scholarship-bodies will have to spend a fortune on you. After you graduate as a doctor, you won't get paid high enough so to maintain your stylish life, you'll need money to keep up. So no money? Sorry, medicine won't bring you money. Go rob a bank instead.

[youngyew]

Do you really need BRAINS to be a Good Doctor??

Nope, you just need lots and lots of cash.

Why? Because you'll spend a fortune trying to grad med school, unless you're a scholar but still the scholarship-bodies will have to spend a fortune on you. After you graduate as a doctor, you won't get paid high enough so to maintain your stylish life, you'll need money to keep up. So no money? Sorry, medicine won't bring you money. Go rob a bank instead.
If you have nothing good to contribute, please don't post irrelevant post filled with terrible generalization. Thank you.

[noneedname2]

If you have nothing good to contribute, please don't post irrelevant post filled with terrible generalization.

Irrelevant? My answer was a no! Was it irrelevant? Yeah maybe terribly generalized but no, it's not irrelevant. How good must a post be to be considered good by you?

Of course to be a doctor, one must have brains... I don't want to end up on a bed waiting for treatment from the famous "death doctor".

[youngyew]

If you have nothing good to contribute, please don't post irrelevant post filled with terrible generalization.

Irrelevant? My answer was a no! Was it irrelevant? Yeah maybe terribly generalized but no, it's not irrelevant. How good must a post be to be considered good by you?
Chill friend... Sorry if my response seemed too hostile. I didn't mean your post is not good, it's just that it seemed to me that the post content do not fit this thread.

The reason I said the post was irrelevant was because in this thread we were merely discussing to what extent intellectual capability or intelligence is required in becoming a doctor. I agree with you saying that we really need a lot of money in order to pursue medicine (although I don't agree with the "maintain stylish life" part), but this is not what we are discussing here. We are simply discussing how smart one has to be in order to become a doctor. And your post have been explaining the reason money is important without touching on the reason brain is not important. That's why I said it's irrelevant.

And on the other hand, terrible generalization refers to "medicine won't get you money and go rob a bank instead". If this statement holds, I might also extend it to other fields, i.e. engineering, business, actuary etc. We can always come out with tons of examples of actuaries who graduated from universities but can't get a lucrative job because of his or her mediocre performance. The same goes for medicine. Among all freshly graduated doctors, there must be outstanding, mediocre and terrible graduates. They move to pursue their careers, and their income hinges on how far they can go in their specialization and their reputation in a certain specialty. To me, "sorry, medicine won't bring you money. Go rob a bank instead" is a bad generalization. You can still see a lot of rich specialists in your neighbourhood, and they are doing medicine.

I fully support the statement that "becoming a doctor does not guarantee a lucrative income", but to say that "you can never earn a good amoung of money from medicine" is a bad generalization derived only from the fact that a proportion of doctors do not earn a lot of money. Even if not all doctors earn a lot, it doesn't mean that becoming a doctor is worse than becoming a robber as implied by the sentence:
Sorry, medicine won't bring you money. Go rob a bank instead.
I am terribly sorry if I have hurt your feeling by a terse rebuttal to your statement. I have been inconsiderate when I posted that statement. My only points are that it's irrelevant to this thread and that the post content is a bad generalization. Hope you would forgive my tactlessness but at the same time consider my points.

[libran_mei]

Why, I wouldn't bother to be tactful if I were you, youngyew, to such a person. I couldn't agree more with you and at the same time, condemn the awfully low and disgraceful thoughts of noneedname2. And heck, the thoughts had to be said out loud. A wonder really, how one could simply shout out his/her thoughts without even thinking twice. "Go rob a bank", my, the country is indeed in deep trouble.

[youngyew]

Thanks for your support libran_mei. To be frank, I was indeed a bit annoyed when I read the "rob a bank instead" statement, and hence I turned hostile in the reply. So I was apologising for the hostility.

[Tab]

do you need brains to be a good doctor?
hmm.. IMHO, you need brains to be a good ____ (fill in the blank with any profession)
Besides, I might be wrong but could anyone pls name a profession that does not require a person to use his/her brain? It follows from this that in order to be good in your profession, you definitely need brains.

oh man, imagine how crappy a doctor would be if he/she went on with his/her job without using any brain.

[tehjiao]

We all need brain in order to perform well in every field, but to be a good Dr (or any other job i believe) i'm sure attitude and interest are more important. I observed that those popular doctors among patients are those who are not really "Genius" in their knowledge or skills but their attitude. :wink:

[Amberfong]

to me, to be a good doctor must have brain to complete all the tasks he needs to do.. as i know, it is difficult to be a doctor~ but a lot of doctors misuse their brains~ i have read an article about doctors VS robbers.. i don't know it is relevant to the topic or not but i just want to share~ the article is in chinese so i apologize to those who dun understand chinese~
_________________________________________________

强盗通常只在晚上作案，医生却全天候抢钱；
强盗风里来雨里去四处流窜，医生冬天暖夏天凉环境优雅；
你把钱交给强盗是为了活命，你为了活命而把钱交给医生；
强盗只能抢光你身上的财富，医生却能抢光你一生的积蓄；
强盗只会逼你掏钱，医生却能逼你借债；
你碰上强盗作案可以破财消灾，你碰上医生抢钱却得倾家荡产；
强盗作案时胆战心惊小心翼翼，医生抢钱时理直气壮无所顾忌；
强盗还怕你人多势众，医生连警察也照抢不误；
你被强盗抢了可以报警，你被医生抢了只能认命；
强盗作案时把自己打扮成魔鬼，医生抢钱时把自己伪装成天使；
强盗抢光你的钱他逃跑，医生抢光你的钱你滚蛋；
强盗钱抢多了叫数额巨大得枪毙，医生钱抢多了称贡献突出受表彰；
你把强盗杀了叫正当防卫，你把医生宰了叫违法犯罪；
医生一辈子也许不会被强盗抢，强盗一生中肯定会被医生抢；
医生上辈子肯定是强盗，强盗下辈子一定想当医生。

[youngyew]

to me, to be a good doctor must have brain to complete all the tasks he needs to do.. as i know, it is difficult to be a doctor~ but a lot of doctors misuse their brains~ i have read an article about doctors VS robbers.. i don't know it is relevant to the topic or not but i just want to share~ the article is in chinese so i apologize to those who dun understand chinese~
_________________________________________________

强盗通常只在晚上作案，医生却全天候抢钱；
强盗风里来雨里去四处流窜，医生冬天暖夏天凉环境优雅；
你把钱交给强盗是为了活命，你为了活命而把钱交给医生；
强盗只能抢光你身上的财富，医生却能抢光你一生的积蓄；
强盗只会逼你掏钱，医生却能逼你借债；
你碰上强盗作案可以破财消灾，你碰上医生抢钱却得倾家荡产；
强盗作案时胆战心惊小心翼翼，医生抢钱时理直气壮无所顾忌；
强盗还怕你人多势众，医生连警察也照抢不误；
你被强盗抢了可以报警，你被医生抢了只能认命；
强盗作案时把自己打扮成魔鬼，医生抢钱时把自己伪装成天使；
强盗抢光你的钱他逃跑，医生抢光你的钱你滚蛋；
强盗钱抢多了叫数额巨大得枪毙，医生钱抢多了称贡献突出受表彰；
你把强盗杀了叫正当防卫，你把医生宰了叫违法犯罪；
医生一辈子也许不会被强盗抢，强盗一生中肯定会被医生抢；
医生上辈子肯定是强盗，强盗下辈子一定想当医生。
While I agree that some minority of doctors are inethical when it comes to earning money; I believe that it's totally unfair to to generalize all doctors as such.

[Patrick]

to me, to be a good doctor must have brain to complete all the tasks he needs to do.. as i know, it is difficult to be a doctor~ but a lot of doctors misuse their brains~ i have read an article about doctors VS robbers.. i don't know it is relevant to the topic or not but i just want to share~ the article is in chinese so i apologize to those who dun understand chinese~
_________________________________________________

强盗通常只在晚上作案，医生却全天候抢钱；
强盗风里来雨里去四处流窜，医生冬天暖夏天凉环境优雅；
你把钱交给强盗是为了活命，你为了活命而把钱交给医生；
强盗只能抢光你身上的财富，医生却能抢光你一生的积蓄；
强盗只会逼你掏钱，医生却能逼你借债；
你碰上强盗作案可以破财消灾，你碰上医生抢钱却得倾家荡产；
强盗作案时胆战心惊小心翼翼，医生抢钱时理直气壮无所顾忌；
强盗还怕你人多势众，医生连警察也照抢不误；
你被强盗抢了可以报警，你被医生抢了只能认命；
强盗作案时把自己打扮成魔鬼，医生抢钱时把自己伪装成天使；
强盗抢光你的钱他逃跑，医生抢光你的钱你滚蛋；
强盗钱抢多了叫数额巨大得枪毙，医生钱抢多了称贡献突出受表彰；
你把强盗杀了叫正当防卫，你把医生宰了叫违法犯罪；
医生一辈子也许不会被强盗抢，强盗一生中肯定会被医生抢；
医生上辈子肯定是强盗，强盗下辈子一定想当医生。
While I agree that some minority of doctors are inethical when it comes to earning money; I believe that it's totally unfair to to generalize all doctors as such.

Well, people tend to look at the bad side of things all the time. They condemn these unethical doctors (which I think is right) but at the same time, they hardly recognise the work of doctors who strive for the better of their patients. Some even go to the extent of flying to third world countries and offer free treatment, with all medicinal costs being borne by them. Although these people are obviously well-off, at least they do care about others and they do not just sit back and enjoy the wealth that they have.

[Lils88]

I take d whole 'poem' as a joke of sorts.....
U guys dun so serious lar...

[youngyew]

I take d whole 'poem' as a joke of sorts.....
U guys dun so serious lar...
Haha yeah it's funny if you look at it as a kind of joke, in fact I found it so interesting that I copied it in my blog. :P

But the bigger issue is, many people tend to treat this "doctors cheat money" issue too seriously, and you get really bad stereotyping and preconceived notion about doctors. Some people get so carried away by the few rotten apple in the apple and fail to see the other fresh apples. That's a worrying trend which I won't take lightly, and hence I gave the response above.