Foreign workers

[Chyi]

I went to Nepal last summer, volunteering in a small village. and surprisingly, there are some Nepalis in that small village can speak pretty good Malay Language. Malu to say that I think one of my Nepali fren speaks Malay better than me.
He told me, thousands of Nepalis are working in Malaysia now. My cousin was working in an Indonesian maid agency last time and she always brought some Indonesian maids to my house when they cant find a place for those maids who have problems with their employer. There are some Bangladesh men in the company my father working now, and they came to my house during Chinese New Year.
I dont know what to say when those Nepalis told me 'Malaysia is a very good country, I think I can get a good job there.' and I just told them, 'ok, you can come, but please promise me that you go and apply proper visa, behave well, dont come illegally or do sth bad in my country.'

Do we have so many jobs for those foreign workers? Are we really welcoming them? Are they happy in Malaysia? (unfortunately most the people I met are not so happy there, and that's why my family always try to be kind to them) & I am a foreigner staying in another country and I really appreciate those local people who are kind to me.

& What do you think?

[royston]

Hi Chyi,

Well, in Intel there are a lot of foreigner workers, including Bangladash, Nepalis and so on. Some of them are my friends as well. I ever once talked to one of them, as what I can understand, most of them coming here to work just to earn more money. Meanwhile, I can feel that how suffer they are but they are very hardworking.

I might not say all of them are hardworking but mostly they are. From this point we can know that, the job opportunities in their own country is quite low, furthermore due to the ratio of our currency as well.

Well, to discuss whether they are welcome, does Malaysia has so much job opportunities for them and so on, we need to do some research. I can try to talk to their agent and understand more about this (I know the agent as well).

Basically in Intel, most of them come here to work as sanitary workers. Besides, there are some working as technician and so on. I can't give much clearer picture but since you have the interest to find this out, I will try to do some research on this. Meanwhile, I will try to source for the job opportunities and whether they are welcome or not, things like that.

In fact, regardless of where you come from, who you are, as long as we are human being, we should be kind to everyone. Yeah, ppl might challenge back, some of the foreighner involve in robbing, raping and all kind of vandalism activities... but are we sure that all our Malaysian behave ourselves? It is that, coincidentally some of the foreighners involve that's all. Anyway, I find this topic kinda interesting, let me find out more ... :wink:

~ roy ~

[jiinjoo]

I think the question "Are they happy in Malaysia" is a very very good one. In fact our forum here cannot answer this question because there will be no first hand opinion from someone who's really suffering/enjoying themselves as second (or third 8) ) class citizen in Malaysia. You're reading this probably because you have access to the Internet, that you're well-off enough to either go to a university or pay your ISP. How many sanitary workers in Intel gets say something for example?

Maybe your experience asking them personally is more rewarding than seeking 3rd hand opinions here. Meanwhile, it will be great if we can make them feel more comfortable in Malaysia, either by talking to them, organizing activities that include them, etc. I think that will help reduce the chance that they rob your house :)

Yes I totally agree to the suggestion that we "be kind to everyone". Thank you :!:

[royston]

Hi JiinJoo,

Agree, well... this is the initial idea that I intend to talk to them personally. In fact, we know that they will not happy like us. But anyway, to get the first hand opinion, the best way is to talk to them.

They don't need to have internet access and even if you able to communicate with those foreigners, they might not tell you how exactly they feel. Let me do some "survey" and come back to this forum next week... hopefully we can get some more detail information :?

~ roy ~

[raizz]

Well I guess the main question is whether or not Malaysia is having a lot jod oppertunities that foreigners such as Bangladeshi and Indonesians find it easy to find jobs in Malaysia compared to their home country. Coming back to the point where Malaysia is considered by many major companies as possible sites for business process outsourcing (BPO), this will definitely increase the fact that many foreign companies will start setting up their plans in Malaysia, such as Intel.

Not only because of the BPO, but also another major determinant is becasue of the cheap labor that Malaysia offers. Sadly, many Malaysians do not consider working is places such as sanitaries a good starting point....well who does anyway!!! But we can't run away from the fact that there are still people in Malaysia who under educated and in need of job to support themselves and their families. But...they still resist in working in such condition. So that's why there's gonna be a lot of oppertunity going to waste or should I say going to these foreigners. I'm not hinting that its a bad idea that we let all this oppertunities go to them but if we are prepared to do so...well we better be prepared in accepting them in our society.

This debate about foreign workers have going on and on for decades and people just could not come up with a simple conclusion. Its kind of difficult to tolerate when the number of entering foreign workers are in the rise and also especially when the statistics of crimes among foreign workers are also exponientially increasing. Kind of agree with some you guys who said that we have to treat them the best we could. But remember, Malaysia never wants to be unjust to its own citizen. When there are still a huge amount of Malaysians who need help in many sorts of way, attending to this foreign workers and starting to give priorty to them would definitely end up in a chaotic and unpleaseant situation.

I think that Malaysia should start limitting the amount of unprofessional foreign workers. We are certainly not yet the boilling pot of Asia, and if we are gonna be one we definitely have to be ready to accomadate all these people coming in.

[chenchow]

It is a very good discussion and i would share my view point later, as i have only a couple of minutes before class...

I still remember Dr. Mahathir made a speech a few months back, and he said that we should be concentrating more on Domestic investment, rather than foreign direct investment. He was saying that before we used to look at FDI as fantastic, but come to think of it, Malaysia mostly do not collect much tax from them, as we generally give them very genorous tax breaks. Do Malaysians get to buy these products at a much cheaper price? Generally no, as those products are exported... So, do they provide a lot of job opportunities to Malaysians? Kind of yes and kind of No, as we know, so many job opportunities by those MNC are taken by foreign workers. We have one to 2 million foreign workers in Malaysia. So, what's the benefit to us?

We could argue about the job opportunity, increase of quality of life,... , but it is not a direct full benefits... May be we could have this discussion on anothe forum, or include here.

But, I fully agree that we need to treat those foreign workers nicely. A smile will do wonders. Imagine, when you are in US, and an American smiles to you welcoming you to their country, would that impression lasts?

[littlebigone]

I agree with Raizz about limiting unprofessional foreign workers (maybe the better word is unskilled). I think employing skilled workers in tech will actually be beneficial to Malaysia.

I don't think we mistreat such workers. MOst of the time, i think we are complacent and indifferent to these workers. But I think there is a prejudice towards them. I mean, look at karangan SPM or PMR, we always have some topic for this scenario. And I think most answer guides will list high crime rate as one of the disadvantages of hiring foreign workers.

[chenchow]

Kind of agree with some you guys who said that we have to treat them the best we could. But remember, Malaysia never wants to be unjust to its own citizen. When there are still a huge amount of Malaysians who need help in many sorts of way, attending to this foreign workers and starting to give priorty to them would definitely end up in a chaotic and unpleaseant situation.

On what raizz has said, I would agree that we should not waste our resources on those foreign workers, but remember that treating them nicer and smiling to them, would not waste much resources, or even hardly any. May be the only negative point would be, it might attract even more influx of foreign workers...

[masterof_none]

Do we have so many jobs for those foreign workers? Are we really welcoming them? Are they happy in Malaysia? (unfortunately most the people I met are not so happy there, and that's why my family always try to be kind to them) & I am a foreigner staying in another country and I really appreciate those local people who are kind to me.

& What do you think?

I think, when low paid/unskilled foreign workers come to Malaysia to work, that means, the cost to pay Malaysians for those jobs, are now higher that many companies would find agents to find some other cheap workers to work.

This is just like what happening here in the US (especially when you live in the Mexican border ;-) )

In LA, there are a lot of Mexican/Latino immigrants, since they're hardworking to do the small paid job .
This is only fair. We're living in free market. It mobilize the workers, thus, stabilize the labor market.

Therefore, they actually do have jobs there in Malaysia. And yes, we have to be competitive. Even with the small paid jobs.

On treating them, yes, we must treat them well.
It was sad to see some Indonesian maid being tortured (as you've probably have seen on TV). They're human beings too. We're all the same.
On vandalism, yes, it happen everywhere, such as in LA. vandalism introduced by immigrants is a real phenomena...that, it's not only unique in Malaysia, but , in some other developed countries as well.

[Schye]

I have met a few friends who did come to Japan and work illegally without a visa. Many of them come to Japan using the Travelers Visa and never go back until they have earned enough. I have been to their apartment and I was really shocked when I found that there are more than 12 people staying in an apartment with 2room.The room is full with nothing but double decker beds and the clothes are all hanging around those beds. Some of them are doing 2 jobs or more at a time.

Back to the topic. I think we can?t just say that they are happy or not but I think the time when they feel like happy should be less than us. Working in a bad condition, getting the lower pay then normal Japanese worker (this implies to all foreigners with or without visa), living in an extremely small space and wont spend even a yen to even buy a bottle of soda. Some of them who are lucky and work under a good employer may have the visa if the employer helps them to apply it but to those who are unlucky, their life will be always in the dark side.

About welcoming them or not, basically I don?t think Japanese welcome them in Japan( I mean those come illegally) and basically I myself too wont be happy to see those who work in Malaysia illegally. Get a visa and work, then it will be good for both.

Being kind to them or not? Erm.... I think I will be kind of them as long as they don?t cause me any trouble :wink: Actually 2 foreign workers did help me before when my bike was stuck on the railway (well, the tyre was punctured and I was using the shortcut by crossing the railway :oops: ) I waved at them and they did help me without saying a word and just went away even before I say thanks... Yeah, they are human too and the main reason they are here is to WORK
, and send back the money to their family.Not to cause problems. No one will like to be like that but they are those unlucky ones who have to go through all these.So, i dont see any reason why shouldnt we treat them kindly :wink:
and yup, i like the idea of be kind to all ;)

[CrAzyCow]

As long as they are peaceful workers i dun mind.

[chenchow]

i would think that Malaysians that go overseas to work, should go overseas legally. By trying to do it illegally, it would cause a lot of repercussions to the whole country as a whole. It would tarnish the good names of our country. Although a lot of times, those who do that, may have not much avenue, I still think that we should strongly discourage it and if possible, try to eliminate it!

[eeyore]

Well, my brother is actually working for Panasonic, a Japanese company in Malaysia. A lot of workers there are Japanese, and I've never heard from my brother anything about those workers creating trouble in or out of the work place. On the contrary, he tells stories about how we can learn so much from their way of thinking and work attitude. So, while it is true that some of the foreign workers may be involved in negative activities here (remember that some of them come from poor countries with a high crime rate), we must also think about those who come here to earn a honest living and how we can actually learn from their culture/work habits.

[chenchow]

I think basically there are 2 categories of foreign formers, kind of a sweeping generalization, but one group would be those skilled foreign talents, especially those engineers etc in Panasonic and other high-technology facilities.

On the other hand, we have a lot of foreign workers, who work at various manufacturing, consturction, plantation etc, to make ends meet at their home. In a sense, they fill up our job market. Without these workers, our construction plant would have to shut off by half, many manufacturing plant would not be able to go ahead etc... So, I guess we are in a dilemma.

I believe that the current process of attracting top talents, especially for those MSC and Biovalley related companies are good way, but we should find a way to bring up the value chain in other sectors to create more high quality job...

[joseph173]

When we're talking about " foreign workers", do u still remember we are foreigners too!

I think most of the concerns are about our own interest. Some people just want to get the most out of the foreign worker...

If u talk about humanity, our country, apparentlly Malaysia isn't mature.
Foreign wokers in malaysia don't have equal human rights in malaysia.
Being nice to them( in terms not manner, polite..) is just not enough.
Do u know the difference between right and grace????

We have great improvement in Asia, in terms of economy. but seems we have lost the most fundamental, the foundation, the==== Humanity.



Please don't be selfish.

[royston]

Well Joseph, yeah ... I agree with you. What do you suggest that things we need improvement in terms of Humanity?

~ roy ~

[chenchow]

yeah, i agree that we still lack in terms of humanity and we should work hard on it.. As we are progressing, a lot of those Eastern culture seems to distance ourselves,.... Lets discuss this issue on another forum...

On foreign workers, i agree that they are not being treated well in most places in the world. If we look at those Malaysians who work across the Causeway, they do not have a nice lifestyle... Leaving for work at 5am, 6am, getting stuck in traffic jams, and then after work, get stuck in another traffic jams, reaching home late at night, just in time to have a few hours of sleep for the next day...

Is this the lifestyle that those Malaysians who work in Singapore as foreign workers want? Don't overlook that matter, we have about 300,000 Malaysians doing that on a daily basis...

[Schye]

I think those who come to work with a visa will be trated well and the problems will be those who come illegally.
Apparently they are being treated unfair and being manipulated because they can even say NO ot they will be reportted to the police. That is what i was trying to bring out by telling the stories of a few friends that i have met in Tokyo.
Those elite are of course will eb treated well as the company need them while in the other hand , those illegal incomers can be sacked any time if the ask for a raise in the pay.

Any idea to solve this? (well, the best way maybe having only those with visa to work but the reality is that its impossible)

[joseph173]

I'm so glad there are still some humanity here!
If we continue to grow in a good way, I believe Malaysia will achieve high status. It is because self realization is the first step to start doing the right thing.
Remember during the 50s,60s, Japanese public has work together with the government to thrive the economy, it was because they realized their situation after WWII.

Remember Rome. It was a great empire. At that time nobody thinks it would fail. But it did. They had good citizens and good people to spread the good news like what u guys r doing too.

Time is a concern. Hopefully we r not too late.


Having humanity is not only something to show off, it actually helps us.
THanks guys!

[Chyi]

From the opinions I read from everybody, I can see that foreign workers not really enjoying themselves so much working overseas. (they work in other countries for money or look for some change in current life)

I think I'll have more satisfaction working in my own country for my people.
anyway, from a view of human resource, companies can reduce their budget by employing this foreign workers, and sometimes they do help to develop our country.
I saw a TV programme yesterday night. big companies like Sony, they are training their workers, giving them good training and education, hope that they will become new leaders in the company. this is the Japanese system, they expect their workers are going to work in their firm and loyal to their company until they retire and that's why they pay so much effort to train them.
I was thinking, if foreign students like me get a job and work in those companies, will they give me such good treatment? :roll:

[littlebigone]

we've just been talking about treating foreign workers properly and with respect. However, I'm interested to know if foreign hiring is "stealing" jobs from locals, be it skilled or unskilled. Does anyone know or have data on this matter? Unemployed in Malaysia, estimated natural unemployment rate and also number of foreign workers in Malaysia in every sector.

[__earth]

talking about how foreigners are stealing local job is unfair.

It's all about laissez faire. Adapt or die.
You can't blame the foreigners for getting local jobs while the local themselves are busy with hip hop and god knows what else.

The foreigners, illegal or not deserve it simply because they work for it.

[__earth]

talking about how foreigners are stealing local job is unfair.

It's all about laissez faire. Adapt or die.
You can't blame the foreigners for getting local jobs while the local themselves are busy with hip hop and god knows what else.

The foreigners, illegal or not deserve it simply because they work for it.

[jiinjoo]

Here are some updates and facts about foreign workers in Malaysia, as well as their entry criteria etc.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/2/4/nation/7240946&sec=nation

http://www.imi.gov.my

Although I still think the site should provide more statistics.

On the "stealing job fair" thing - come see those CS schools' job fair in the US, where white skin is clearly in the minority - I'm sure they're feeling Much worst somehow... :wink:

[jiinjoo]

Here are some updates and facts about foreign workers in Malaysia, as well as their entry criteria etc.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2004/2/4/nation/7240946&sec=nation

http://www.imi.gov.my

Although I still think the site should provide more statistics.

On the "stealing job fair" thing - come see those CS schools' job fair in the US, where white skin is clearly in the minority - I'm sure they're feeling Much worst somehow... :wink:

[topdog]

all these are moot points, since robots will take over most jobs anyway.

i'm only half joking.

[topdog]

all these are moot points, since robots will take over most jobs anyway.

i'm only half joking.

[budakkerek]

no land like the home land.

True? :wink:

okie..what i think? try put ourselves in their places. Working in a different place, not really knowing the language, bad living condition, long working hours with low pay, missing your family terribly but not being able to go back bcoz have 2 save money etc.

The best thing we can do to help 'em is be nice, and to treat em nicely like we want ourselves to be treated. They might not look like us, but they're humans, just like us, right?

About stealing jobs etc, most of them are doing jobs that not many of us Malaysians want, like Roy said, toilet-cleaning, sweeping the street, garbage-collectors, buruh kasar keje kat site building buildings etc. So, ape yg tak aci nye kat situ? we need ppl to do such jobs, and since mcm xde je Msians yg nak, so why not give em a chance of a better life?

Personally, as long as they go according to the rules, then they're welcomed. But once they go overboard, then i guess they should be deported.

Well, my 2cents! 8)

[budakkerek]

no land like the home land.

True? :wink:

okie..what i think? try put ourselves in their places. Working in a different place, not really knowing the language, bad living condition, long working hours with low pay, missing your family terribly but not being able to go back bcoz have 2 save money etc.

The best thing we can do to help 'em is be nice, and to treat em nicely like we want ourselves to be treated. They might not look like us, but they're humans, just like us, right?

About stealing jobs etc, most of them are doing jobs that not many of us Malaysians want, like Roy said, toilet-cleaning, sweeping the street, garbage-collectors, buruh kasar keje kat site building buildings etc. So, ape yg tak aci nye kat situ? we need ppl to do such jobs, and since mcm xde je Msians yg nak, so why not give em a chance of a better life?

Personally, as long as they go according to the rules, then they're welcomed. But once they go overboard, then i guess they should be deported.

Well, my 2cents! 8)

[sueyi]

I think this is a very interesting topic ..
talking about how foreigners are stealing local job is unfair.

It's all about laissez faire. Adapt or die.
You can't blame the foreigners for getting local jobs while the local themselves are busy with hip hop and god knows what else.

The foreigners, illegal or not deserve it simply because they work for it.

I agree with him. I think if we believe that open market is a system that works then having foreigners 'stealing' jobs in our country is inevitable, as long as the standard of living is different enough. Intelligence doesn't differenciate by race or nationality either, they may be working very bad jobs today but their children could be successful and well educated and contribute a lot to our community. This is how our country became a multi-racial multi-ethnic group in the first place. I'm not saying that I think our government should open the doors for anybody and everybody to come in ... we should only hire from outside what we need and what we can afford. (If local unemployment is too high, then not enough consumers to feed our economy, because I think at least initially foreign workers tend to send money out ... can't do this) For example, I think we can say our country currently needs the foreign construction workers and it does us good to hire them. How it changes future dynamics of our society, we have to accept that too!

Just my 2 cents ...

[sueyi]

I think this is a very interesting topic ..
talking about how foreigners are stealing local job is unfair.

It's all about laissez faire. Adapt or die.
You can't blame the foreigners for getting local jobs while the local themselves are busy with hip hop and god knows what else.

The foreigners, illegal or not deserve it simply because they work for it.

I agree with him. I think if we believe that open market is a system that works then having foreigners 'stealing' jobs in our country is inevitable, as long as the standard of living is different enough. Intelligence doesn't differenciate by race or nationality either, they may be working very bad jobs today but their children could be successful and well educated and contribute a lot to our community. This is how our country became a multi-racial multi-ethnic group in the first place. I'm not saying that I think our government should open the doors for anybody and everybody to come in ... we should only hire from outside what we need and what we can afford. (If local unemployment is too high, then not enough consumers to feed our economy, because I think at least initially foreign workers tend to send money out ... can't do this) For example, I think we can say our country currently needs the foreign construction workers and it does us good to hire them. How it changes future dynamics of our society, we have to accept that too!

Just my 2 cents ...

[masdie]

I have a question to those in Germany, France, Korea and Japan. Are there many foreigners in your place? Do you see many Asians, Blacks and Arabians around?

[Thirdshifter]

I think this is a very interesting topic ..
talking about how foreigners are stealing local job is unfair.

It's all about laissez faire. Adapt or die.
You can't blame the foreigners for getting local jobs while the local themselves are busy with hip hop and god knows what else.

The foreigners, illegal or not deserve it simply because they work for it.

I agree with him. I think if we believe that open market is a system that works then having foreigners 'stealing' jobs in our country is inevitable, as long as the standard of living is different enough. Intelligence doesn't differenciate by race or nationality either, they may be working very bad jobs today but their children could be successful and well educated and contribute a lot to our community...

I disagree. Immigration should be made legally. No if or buts. Why should we make exceptions?

I have no problem with immigration but do it legally even if its a pain in the ass. No one should be above law.

[koopai]

I have a question to those in Germany, France, Korea and Japan. Are there many foreigners in your place? Do you see many Asians, Blacks and Arabians around?

In France, yes.

[Schye]

I have a question to those in Germany, France, Korea and Japan. Are there many foreigners in your place? Do you see many Asians, Blacks and Arabians around?

The same goes to Japan. While we are complaining about illegal immigrant workers in Malaysia, Malaysia is ranked 5ft in the number of foreigners illegally over-staying in Japan (who came to Japan legally).

Click (http://www.moj.go.jp/PRESS/050328-1/050328-1.html) to see the data for year 2005.

Agree with Third. We cant let the "market" to decide everything as the market serves only towards "effectiveness" while there are other factors that we need to put into considerations.

[kintaro_kun]

The same goes to Japan. While we are complaining about illegal immigrant workers in Malaysia, Malaysia is ranked 5ft in the number of foreigners illegally over-staying in Japan (who came to Japan legally).

Click (http://www.moj.go.jp/PRESS/050328-1/050328-1.html) to see the data for year 2005.



wow, really man, we're just behind the koreans, chinese, philipinos and thais, according to your list. but with just around 200000 foreign immigrants per 127mil japanese , this pales the 1-2million per 23mil citizens in m'sia.

[kintaro_kun]

The same goes to Japan. While we are complaining about illegal immigrant workers in Malaysia, Malaysia is ranked 5ft in the number of foreigners illegally over-staying in Japan (who came to Japan legally).

Click (http://www.moj.go.jp/PRESS/050328-1/050328-1.html) to see the data for year 2005.



wow, really man, we're just behind the koreans, chinese, philipinos and thais, according to your list. but with just around 200000 foreign immigrants per 127mil japanese , this pales in comparison with the 1-2million per 23mil citizens in m'sia.