Entering Top/famous schools necessary?

[seahjiachen]

I believe this post will help many students and parents in dilemma. Do you think its neccessary for students to enter so called "famous schools" EG: smjk katholik,SMK Sultan abdul samad, Methodist++?

So... If u don't mind, drop down u POV :P

[nickvl]

I believe this post will help many students and parents in dilemma. Do you think its neccessary for students to enter so called "famous schools" EG: smjk katholik,SMK Sultan abdul samad, Methodist++?

So... If u don't mind, drop down u POV :P

Necessary? I wouldn't say that.
But certain schools a person may attend would bring about a certain image (good or bad) in people's minds when parents get together and chat

What do you mean when you say necessary? For one's future? Success? Image?

What is your definition of a 'famous school' anyway?
Then perhaps I can give a more satisfactory answer...

[seahjiachen]

13 students score 5A's in STPM 2008, 3 are from katholik, 1 is from sultan abdul samad. Without adding the no. of students obtaining 4A's.

Famous schools as in schools which produces a lot of high achiever.

[BattleBoyz]

I think a top/famous school is necessary but it does not come first. The one that determine ones success in studies is the attitude of the students themselves. A student can enter a top school but do badly in his/her studies. Of course some school require students to have good results in spm before taking them in but students who did well in spm do not necessary do well in stpm. (i'm talking about form 6) I'm not saying that top/famous school is not important but in the end of the day, being hardworking is what that makes a student scores well in exam. Top school comes second! :P

[seahjiachen]

well said :D, u just inspired me!
Anyone more add on's?

[senksiang90]

Yeah, I guess that coming from a top school is not at all important. I think it all bows down to the students itself and how much commitment they are willing to put in. For me as well, famous or big schools normally produces the results as many good students who are fully committed to their studies goes to it. For example, in SMK Green Road, we know of it's past glorious history and so many parents would definitely want to send their kids there for they have tested and formulated different teaching methods to bring the success to the school. In the end, the bright students come to these kind of schools and as a result of their very own commitment, they got the goods. Of course teachers are important as well in this, but in the end, it's all up to the student's self to make it all count.

**I'm not sure about SMK Methodist.. but I feel it produces so many good students because of this reason. I mean, look around Sibu.. Do you have anymore famous schools around? Not really right.. cuz all the good students go for this school and so it remains to be a detriment to many other schools in that city.

[ling910520]

Secondary school is not necessary because is largely depends on the students own commitment whether they want to success or not.

Last time , a girl come to my school (my school is at rural , never had student got full A in spm of the school history ), once the girl came, she was the top achievers of the school, all the school exam get 90++ mark , and consistently maintained to spm. Inevitably, she became my school first ever straight A1 student.Plus , she take part in many national level competition like poem , essay writting ...etc, and most of the time she managed to bring back the honours to school.Our Pengetua is so happy and deliberately give she a certificate which stated that she (mengharumkan nama sekolah).From she , i can say it is whole depends on you whether want to success or not in secondary school, school name is not that important.

Come to tertiary education , it is important for you to get a famous universities , some purpose of the universties established is to give the students a easy degree by lower their exam standard, some uni may lack quality lecturer , facilities and many others reason that would affect the study enviroment there.I am not here to defamed those newly set up uni , i understand that Rome doesn't build in one day , and they need time to improve .But i am a pragmatism , if there is a better universities outside there , why i dont study hard now so that i can enter that university rather than ended up in a uni that does not i yourself?

So , if you have a chance to enter a famous university that would benefit you more than the others , grab it.

[tsar]

ling your argument applies to top schools as well. Top schools aren't "top" for no reason, in the same way top universities aren't "top" for no reason. A good number of top schools are mission schools: well established, old, with traces of the strict environment that the religious brothers enforced back in their day. These things, while not the most important factor, are good bonuses to any student willing to work hard. Top schools also become top because of quality teachers, principals and students.

That said, top schools are merely catalysts. The ball is ultimately in the student's own hands.

By the way, I do think that it's SMK Sacred Heart that is the top school in Sarawak, no? They produce double and triple the straight A scorers of other schools. I also thought St Thom had a much bigger reputation than GRSS :)

[Glassylicious]

It appears that the general consensus here is that top schools merely serve as a catalyst and that most of the effort still needs to come from the student. To a certain extent, I would agree. I'd like to add on from a slightly different perspective though.

Sure, a good school may only be a catalyst, but I'd like to argue that it is an important catalyst. Peer pressure is a very powerful tool. For every 1 brilliant student leader who can multi-task and excel in any given environment, there will be 10 other students who perform pretty well in their studies, but will end up slowing down when they notice that everyone else in their class isn't putting in that much effort. For every 1 person who is self-motivated, there are 10 other people who draw motivation from their surroundings and the people around them.

The same actually happens in the workforce. I know of a person whose talent rotted away after several years of working in an unimaginative and unchallenging position.

The point I am trying to make: A top school will offer a competitive environment for those who can excel. These are the students who are pretty smart and can score a string of A's with a few B's here and there. They know that they are capable of getting straight A's. They don't want to be ranked the bottom of the class, so they don't slack off since everyone else is working hard. This is kiasuism at its best; human instinct is just kicking in.

Now, put the same students in a class of low-performing students where they will easily emerge as "top students". The tests prepared by the school seem a bit watered down in difficulty, and maybe the grade range to pass/get an A is lowered [this actually happens in some schools]. They realize that they can rank first with minimal effort since everyone else is so far behind [in terms of motivation, intelligence and effort], and hence begin to relax. It goes downhill from there. This results in them becoming complacent and putting in minimal effort. They are still the best in the school, but that objectively proves little of their abilities because given their situation, they are only the "best of the worst".

I'm not saying that you'll ultimately seal your fate if you get into a low-performing school. I'm just saying that if you are sure of your abilities and can do so much better, why not try getting into a good or more reputable school?

One last food for thought: Sure, if you're really good you'll be ranked among the top no matter where you are, but I'd rather prefer the title of being "the best of the best" rather than "the best of the average/worst". The former statement will say a lot more about my abilities. I think this is one point that many have overlooked.

[markwongsk]

Extending from Glassy's previous argument, it does not only apply to the schools in Malaysia as a whole, it applies to the education system as a whole too. In order to achieve a "higher passing rate" or a "higher percentage of Aces" we can see that the grades for public examinations aren't really telling us anything about the student's academic prowess. A1 in Mathematics? Probably don't even know how to do simple arithmetic without relying heavily on calculator... A1 in English? Probably don't even know the difference between a verb and a noun... and when or not to use the darn "s".

Then again, I don't really encourage the development of kiasuism, which, from my personal experience, isn't motivating one in the right way. Sure, you get motivated to study, and you would probably ace the class, but it does drain the meaning from the whole process...

[Young]

Then again, I don't really encourage the development of kiasuism, which, from my personal experience, isn't motivating one in the right way. Sure, you get motivated to study, and you would probably ace the class, but it does drain the meaning from the whole process...

A little digression here;

Kiasuism, in the right proportions, can actually be beneficial to a student. Whether we like it or not, whether we choose to deny, accept or turn a blind eye on it, competition is the main driving force behind academic excellence.

Just look at Singapore, the island we so often frown upon for its kiasuism; yet they totally demolish us when it comes to grades and admission into top universities/courses.

Of course, I'm not saying you should stock up on a warehouse of exam papers, monopolize every single reference book in the library and keep your notes to yourself like some frenzied, wisdom-miser...That would be sad.

The thing is, many people (not referring to you, markwongsk :P) cannot differentiate between healthy competition and kiasuism... And it saddens me to see so many of my academically-inclined peers being labelled 'kiasu' simply because they are trying to better themselves. What even more disturbing is that the kiasu label is powerful enough to deter even the most determined student from giving his all in an attempt to shake off his undesirable label.

Sigh, the wonders of peer pressure.

[seahjiachen]

I agree with both young and markwongsk. However, I'm sure everyone hates being labeled kiasu. :D

err, maybe i'll tell u the "position" I'm in. Then u guys decide whether the transfer is worth it.

I'm taking 5 subjects ( bio,phy,chem,math,pa) for STPM 2010, studying in a 4 subject(bio class). I've got a superb math T and MUET teacher, but, the rest of the subject teachers are *not so excellent*( u know wat i mean) I've been skipping school the whole lower 6 (attending only 3 out of 5 days of schooling) and relying on tuitions and self-study to ace in exams. Catholic High School(CHS) has got a good bio,physic,pa teacher, which i think is my weakest subject for now.

I'm a prefect in my current school. And Koku points is quite important for STPM students. There'll be a lot of competition in Koku in CHS. And it takes 15 minutes to travel to CHS from my house and 25 minutes for a return trip. It'll also take time for me to adapt to the travelling and new school.

So what say u guys? :D
hope that i can get some guidance and set my head on studies ASAP :(

[BattleBoyz]

To a certain extent, I too, agree that some healthy competition will motivate students to try to do better in his/her studies. Despite that, if you change again your perspective, a too-high-competition or kiasuism will cause a student to become too stressed out in his/her studies. Some students will even give up in the process because they know very well in their heart that they will never "win" no matter how much effort they put in their studies.

Another problem studying in top/famous school is that the average/poor-result students studying there tend to become afraid to ask the teachers or lecturers questions because the class consist of mostly clever students and they don't want to delay the class teachings by asking sorts of questions which are already understood by almost everyone in the class. Some top students do not ask questions in their class when they see that even the average students can understand the topic. These students' pride refrain them from asking questions in class.

I'm not saying that these problems does not occur in not-so-top-schools nor do I mean studying in top/famous school only has disadvantages. My point is to stress again that the student's attitude is what matters the most.

*My whole point is regarding primary, secondary school and form 6 only.

[seahjiachen]

can anyone help me out (on my case)?

[ling910520]

Another problem studying in top/famous school is that the average/poor-result students studying there tend to become afraid to ask the teachers or lecturers questions because the class consist of mostly clever students and they don't want to delay the class teachings by asking sorts of questions which are already understood by almost everyone in the class. Some top students do not ask questions in their class when they see that even the average students can understand the topic. These students' pride refrain them from asking questions in class.

*My whole point is regarding primary, secondary school and form 6 only.

I do believed that the process of learning is actually come from the Q&A session . I had never been in a famous school , so i don't know what is actually happened over there.But is it healthy to have a quiet class ?If the environment at the school are not encouraging asking question , then i wonder how they earn their reputations over the year.

[tsar]

I agree with both young and markwongsk. However, I'm sure everyone hates being labeled kiasu. :D

err, maybe i'll tell u the "position" I'm in. Then u guys decide whether the transfer is worth it.

I'm taking 5 subjects ( bio,phy,chem,math,pa) for STPM 2010, studying in a 4 subject(bio class). I've got a superb math T and MUET teacher, but, the rest of the subject teachers are *not so excellent*( u know wat i mean) I've been skipping school the whole lower 6 (attending only 3 out of 5 days of schooling) and relying on tuitions and self-study to ace in exams. Catholic High School(CHS) has got a good bio,physic,pa teacher, which i think is my weakest subject for now.

I'm a prefect in my current school. And Koku points is quite important for STPM students. There'll be a lot of competition in Koku in CHS. And it takes 15 minutes to travel to CHS from my house and 25 minutes for a return trip. It'll also take time for me to adapt to the travelling and new school.

So what say u guys? :D
hope that i can get some guidance and set my head on studies ASAP :(


:) Your situation more or less mirrored mine back in my day (boy do I feel old saying this), minus the skipping school part.

Now my question to you is this: what exactly is your query? Are you asking us for an opinion on whether to transfer from your current school (which I presume is not so famous) to Catholic High (which I presume is the "top school" in question)?

Assuming that is your question, here is my two cents worth.

You mentioned that you're taking STPM 2010, so I presume you've been in your current school for most if not all of your Lower Six. This in itself presents many challenges for your intended transfer. Firstly there's logistics to consider, like what you mentioned - new school, new place, new routes, new routine. Then there will be the new environment - CHS is definitely going to be a new environment for you and you will need time to adapt.

Also, you seem quite well established in your old school, being prefect and all. To be frank, it would be quite challenging to obtain positions of power in CHS that command the high co-curriculum marks that Form 6 students so desperately need, especially since you're transferring there in Upper Six. I do personally know a person who was successful in this respect (but his transfer was in Lower 6), so be sure that it is possible. I think this point is worth considering, seeing that koko marks make up 10% of your final CGPA (or at least that was what the newspapers quoted recently).

That said and all, the academic marks still contribute 90% of your final CGPA, so whatever happens they are still the most important when it comes to STPM. If, upon serious reflection (and prayer), you think you really need the teachers in CHS, by all means apply.

Or you could just seek the help of private tutors.

There is one thing I would like to stress though. No matter what happens, teachers are superior to you in knowledge of their subject matter, and this applies to all teachers regardless. They also will have lots of cool study methods, funny jokes and habits that just stick to you for life. I don't really recommend skipping school, but if you feel it helps you, then by all means.

[seahjiachen]

TSAR, thanks! This certainly worth more than 2 cents, at least RM 1000 :P reflection upon some time, I think its too late to transfer. I should have done it last year @<hidden>@<hidden>

So,i think i'll just be relying on tuition teachers. and work hard for STPM :D By the way, i realise TSAR,Markwongsk, battleboyz ( and other recomers whom i did not mentioned) have been actively helping STPM juniors xp Thanks a lot! *applause*

[Nicholasng925]

To certain extension, I agree that studying in a highly competitive environment would totally bring some motivations and maybe stresses in students themselves...i myself was from one of the top schools in Malaysia and being in that school, i can totally felt the kiasuism as i was from one of the top classes... most of the students...well...studying during prep time...and do their homeworks...Since i was one of the minority there, i have had much time compared to the Malays because they need to pray 5 times everyday...even inside minority there was three of my friends always study and that totally made me stressed out... :cry can't they just be more relax??? like me??? urm...anyway it's all over... everything for SPM right??? ^^ :wink

But seriously, when i looked at my friends studying hard for the exams, i automatically studied too... just to make sure not losing below them... that's probably made me being one of the top students in my class and school... wah... luckily i was not called kiasu... got one more friend got this labelled... well...he just smiling whenever my other friends called him kiasu... so sad... but he still remained as one of the top students in my school...^^

anyway...wish every SPM'09 candidates achieve stupendous result!!!:P

[markwongsk]

You pose an interesting point when you refer to Singapore. Actually, and I'm not sure whether it's a good or bad thing, I'm being labelled a "Singaporean Malaysian" just because I'm so kiasu over here in my school haha. But what exactly is your definition of kiasu? For me, I define kiasu as "the state of being afraid to lose till everything comes first to prevent the said state" (okay, very long-winded) haha... Maybe I got it wrong, your opinion pls =)

A little digression here;

Kiasuism, in the right proportions, can actually be beneficial to a student. Whether we like it or not, whether we choose to deny, accept or turn a blind eye on it, competition is the main driving force behind academic excellence.

Just look at Singapore, the island we so often frown upon for its kiasuism; yet they totally demolish us when it comes to grades and admission into top universities/courses.

Of course, I'm not saying you should stock up on a warehouse of exam papers, monopolize every single reference book in the library and keep your notes to yourself like some frenzied, wisdom-miser...That would be sad.

The thing is, many people (not referring to you, markwongsk :P) cannot differentiate between healthy competition and kiasuism... And it saddens me to see so many of my academically-inclined peers being labelled 'kiasu' simply because they are trying to better themselves. What even more disturbing is that the kiasu label is powerful enough to deter even the most determined student from giving his all in an attempt to shake off his undesirable label.

Sigh, the wonders of peer pressure.

urm...anyway it's all over... everything for SPM right??? ^^ :wink

Unfortunately, that's wrong :oh You don't study for exams... well, you shouldn't... At least, I don't do that ^^

Quoting tsar "Your situation more or less mirrored mine back in my day(s)" yep, even with the skipping school thing! (but that was near STPM, ah the good ol' days)

I'm wondering how you can be a prefect while skipping school :))

I also agree with tsar that transferring isn't necessary, especially if you are faring well in your academics. You yourself know how much you know and how well you are prepared for STPM. I also took 5 subjects and self-studied Physics... and I did not take any tuition. I just asked school teachers when I had problems. They may not be the best, but they do know a fair bit. Of course if your teacher is someone who... erm... you know... that's a different story :laugh

I agree with both young and markwongsk. However, I'm sure everyone hates being labeled kiasu. :D

err, maybe i'll tell u the "position" I'm in. Then u guys decide whether the transfer is worth it.

I'm taking 5 subjects ( bio,phy,chem,math,pa) for STPM 2010, studying in a 4 subject(bio class). I've got a superb math T and MUET teacher, but, the rest of the subject teachers are *not so excellent*( u know wat i mean) I've been skipping school the whole lower 6 (attending only 3 out of 5 days of schooling) and relying on tuitions and self-study to ace in exams. Catholic High School(CHS) has got a good bio,physic,pa teacher, which i think is my weakest subject for now.

I'm a prefect in my current school. And Koku points is quite important for STPM students. There'll be a lot of competition in Koku in CHS. And it takes 15 minutes to travel to CHS from my house and 25 minutes for a return trip. It'll also take time for me to adapt to the travelling and new school.

So what say u guys? :D
hope that i can get some guidance and set my head on studies ASAP :(

[subzero0c]

Dun get into a famous school..for form 6
Like me..people back at 2.30pm every day excluding friday 12.00
we back at 3.20 every mon and tue, wed and thur 1.55, friday 1.20 (SMJK JIT SIN)

[seahjiachen]

I also took 5 subjects and self-studied Physics... and I did not take any tuition. I just asked school teachers when I had problems.

Wow! And I just knew that u even took Further Math as a 6th subject(for personal interest, not for examinations) I'm learning further maths as a 6th subject too. I'm a Fmath noob but I think I'm lucky to have a tuition teacher at my area :P

>>So, by when did you manage to finish up all ur syllabus?

On Kiasuism. I think that students should work hard for exams etc etc. But by keeping notes to urself, not sharing ideas or participating in group discussions just slimpy scared of losing in exams is a bit too much! LOL! My teacher tells me, studying should be for the love and passion for the particular subject but not other external factors. And i think she's right :)) If you have the passion for the particular subject, u'll be more motivated to study, i guess the result will naturally come in.:laugh ( Although I'm still a noob xP )

subzero>> wa! Jit Sin until 3.20? My school ends at 2, except tuesday at 4-5 smt for koku.

Anyway, just to update everyone who chipped in their help here, I'm staying put at my current school. The main reason was koku and the logistics(transportation, time lost during travelling, adapting to new environment). Glad for ur help :))

[BattleBoyz]

Anyway, just to update everyone who chipped in their help here, I'm staying put at my current school. The main reason was koku and the logistics(transportation, time lost during travelling, adapting to new environment). Glad for ur help :))

You're welcomed. Glad that you finally made your decision. Anyway, good luck to you and study hard this year! And don't forget to play hard too. :)

[markwongsk]

>>So, by when did you manage to finish up all ur syllabus?



I had Mathematics and Chemistry covered before lower 6 =) Physics I think before upper six. But that's not "prepared for STPM" it's just "finish my syllabus" =P

Bio I go with the flow, because... well I was just lazy to memorize all the names and forget them again later :P

[Nicholasng925]

Unfortunately, that's wrong :oh You don't study for exams... well, you shouldn't... At least, I don't do that ^^

yeah i know that's wrong...but in my school, many students misunderstood it and thought that study is for SPM... but i know that basically study is for obtain knowledge and not just for SPM...yeah i don't do that too... i studied for knowledge and whenever i think it's time for me to study, i will automatically study... just for my knowledge and interest... but honestly i don't like biology because i just can't memorize all the scientific terms for a long period of time as for additional maths, physics and chemistry, i can apply it in our daily life... and i love calculations and theories... that's my true interest i think...^^

[tsar]

Great to see you've decided.

[seahjiachen]

I had Mathematics and Chemistry covered before lower 6 =) Physics I think before upper six. But that's not "prepared for STPM" it's just "finish my syllabus" =P

Bio I go with the flow, because... well I was just lazy to memorize all the names and forget them again later :P

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u crazy dude!! Dam pro la u!! =D
Markwongsk is a good example to show that entering famous/prestigious school is not neccessary. =P

BattleBoyz>> Yup play hard! :-D haha. form 6's life is once in a life time. * secretly starts up warcraft III and garena* -.-