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Debates Nothing senseless here. Argue your points and stands here.

The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

View Poll Results: How is the Quality of PILN/PIDN result 2011?
Satisfying. Supportive towards the Public Service Department's stand. 6 7.14%
Satisfying. Yet a little doubtful if there are other more ideal approaches to make ends meet.. 9 10.71%
Neutral stand. I don't know anything about this. 6 7.14%
Not satisfying. There are other ways to make this scholarship parallel to colour-blind policy. 23 27.38%
Not satisfying. They MUST consider approaches to address the appeals, ignorance is not acceptable. 21 25.00%
TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE! The scholars list MUST be abolished and another list should be published. 19 22.62%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Nicholas92 Male
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  #81 Old 20-05-2011 Default Re: The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cactus View Post
I think they should not try to appear "holistic" in the selection process.

Face it: there is (practically) no holistic education in our public education system.

It's disgusting to see students trying so hard to get As because our system demands it, and then denied a scholarship because they are not "holistic" enough. (And those 5, 6 A+s get the scholarship >.<)

Meritocracy suffers when u try to be holistic without giving some guidelines.
There ARE holistic considerations - co-cu + leadership positions and all that. It's not well-implemented into our academic system and made as important as exams, but there definitely are holistic students.

The problem is that the government puts a lot of emphasis on getting the As to get the scholarship, only to say later on that it's not enough - and the students who didn't bother doing more than study end up suffering, hard work gone.

But yes, the system itself also needs change. But we do have SOME holistic education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlternateF4 View Post
She appealed. Her case quite sad, but hard to help also. BM didn't get A. BUT WHAT SHIZ. The BM/PM subject didn't get A is another issue to be mentioned about. Do you know that every SPM exam centre have a different bell-graph to determine the grades of a student? This, meaning that the people from rural areas need only to score a lower mark to get an A, whereas, the more competitive urban area students need to score an outrageously high mark to get an A. Not only that, this implementation of the bell graph is discreetly used by the gov, which means they can just do whatever they like to CONTROL THE NUMBER OF APPLICANTS THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE SCHOLARSHIP.

You might doubt that, but fyi, she is the top in her class(my school's a cluster school), always amongst the top scorers for her school BM examinations, get A+ for CHINESE and 9 other subjects, get B+ for BM...?
The bell curve is something of an open secret. But I didn't know they had separate bell curves to create literal double standards like that. But then again, I'm also not surprised. Where'd you find this out? Curious.

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Originally Posted by Cerav View Post
The other sad part is no matter how noble our justifications are if the realpolitic behind everything is not changed. We are just going to be like the wolf trying to blow a brick house in the three little pigs.

So how can we change the reapolitic?
Right now it's evolution or revolution. The ballot box is still feasible, so I'd not suggest a revolution. The system is skewed, but if ever the Opposition could muster 60% of the popular vote, it may be enough to bring BN down. (Winning just over 50% isn't enough, thanks to gerrymandering and stuff. But in that sense we're lucky this isn't Singapore)
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  #82 Old 20-05-2011 Default Re: The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

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Originally Posted by AlternateF4 View Post
She appealed. Her case quite sad, but hard to help also. BM didn't get A. BUT WHAT SHIZ. The BM/PM subject didn't get A is another issue to be mentioned about. Do you know that every SPM exam centre have a different bell-graph to determine the grades of a student? This, meaning that the people from rural areas need only to score a lower mark to get an A, whereas, the more competitive urban area students need to score an outrageously high mark to get an A. Not only that, this implementation of the bell graph is discreetly used by the gov, which means they can just do whatever they like to CONTROL THE NUMBER OF APPLICANTS THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE SCHOLARSHIP.

You might doubt that, but fyi, she is the top in her class(my school's a cluster school), always amongst the top scorers for her school BM examinations, get A+ for CHINESE and 9 other subjects, get B+ for BM...?
Wow, this is tricky. The things is JPA needs at least an A for BM, so her choice could be to recheck the paper and try for JPA again or apply for other scholarship.

The most extreme thing she can do is to drop the idea of JPA scholarship ace her pre-u an apply for better scholarship like BNM, SHELL and a lot more scholarship after pre-u or even take SAT and apply for a place in US (did you know most universities in the us provide financial aid for international students, i have a friend in harvard got financial aid even when she had BNM as her sponsor~ my point is you can get financial aid there)
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  #83 Old 20-05-2011 Default Re: The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

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Originally Posted by ayjiahui View Post
OK i know the hype has kind died down but i just had to post this!!

You know this whole deal with scholarships and JPA right, it really needs to be revamped. You know here's a thought you MIGHT want to consider. Unlike many other countries, our government is actually VERY generous. The fact that even under economical strains (that have come about due to.... ahem.. reasons that I won't bother elaborating) they are giving out scholarships to people who do not deserve them = people who take scholarships, go abroad and settle down permanently abroad, breaking the bond they had with the government in the first place. In fact, I think that the government is far too generous with scholarships.

Also, affirmative action policies are always necessary because it really really does help a country in the long run. HENCE, JPA should have come up with separate scholarships -- need-based and merit-based. Then all of you compete on different levels.... But I'm not the government but well...

So, seriously, suck it up. Admissions, the process of giving out scholarships are sometimes quite arbitrary. Sometimes, it is very difficult to pinpoint why a person got a scholarship or not. Grades alone don't always justify the need to receive a scholarship. Even if there was more transparency within the system, like what Nicholas92 mentioned, it eventually becomes a game of numbers.

And boohoo if you feel victimized by the system zzzzz

OK conclusion: guys so next time you know what to do when you turn 21 okay. ^^ and seriously, JPA isn't all that hyped up as it's made out to be. turn to other things!!! expand your boundaries! soul-search!!!!! besides, i'm sure if you're all capable people, opportunities will come knocking your door when the time strikes. take it from someone who's been rejected across the board. hehehe.



aiya, in every country they have the bell control thingy. it's sad but true.
In other countries, Europe, America, Australia, people pay a higher amount of tax, but get higher education for free. Yes you may say that we too have our own public U's, eg UM, USM, UKM, but not many of us are able to secure a place for them. Worse still, they implement the "quota system" and "unjust meritocracy system" which made many of us opt for Private U's instead. So, let me ask you guys, do you think a bright student, however wasn't EXTREMELY COMPETITIVE enough, yet parents are not able to pay for Private U's, be denied a chance to further their studies? Think about it, many 10A students were not able to secure a scholarship.
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  #84 Old 20-05-2011 Default Re: The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ayjiahui View Post
OK i know the hype has kind died down but i just had to post this!!

You know this whole deal with scholarships and JPA right, it really needs to be revamped. You know here's a thought you MIGHT want to consider. Unlike many other countries, our government is actually VERY generous. The fact that even under economical strains (that have come about due to.... ahem.. reasons that I won't bother elaborating) they are giving out scholarships to people who do not deserve them = people who take scholarships, go abroad and settle down permanently abroad, breaking the bond they had with the government in the first place. In fact, I think that the government is far too generous with scholarships.
Other foreigners are actually amazed that our government is even willing to give us scholarships.
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  #85 Old 20-05-2011 Default Re: The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

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Originally Posted by Cerav View Post
Wow, this is tricky. The things is JPA needs at least an A for BM, so her choice could be to recheck the paper and try for JPA again or apply for other scholarship.

The most extreme thing she can do is to drop the idea of JPA scholarship ace her pre-u an apply for better scholarship like BNM, SHELL and a lot more scholarship after pre-u or even take SAT and apply for a place in US (did you know most universities in the us provide financial aid for international students, i have a friend in harvard got financial aid even when she had BNM as her sponsor~ my point is you can get financial aid there)
Yes she dropped the idea of getting a JPA scholarship, and hoped for the best through A levels. But seriously, it's the government's loss for not having her as a scholar. She's now less loyal to Malaysia, less thankful to the government. If i were her, i would just diss Malaysia and go to another country(considering how hard she worked for the scholarship, just to get rejected).
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  #86 Old 20-05-2011 Default Re: The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

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Originally Posted by Cerav View Post
Other foreigners are actually amazed that our government is even willing to give us scholarships.
Ya, abolish JPA PILN lah.

But that hasn't happened.

So we are now whining on this forum about how unfair JPA has been.

(sorry, I got too worked up. Leaving now....)
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  #87 Old 20-05-2011 Default Re: The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

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Other foreigners are actually amazed that our government is even willing to give us scholarships.
Don't be fooled. The taxes we pay should be enough to secure us places in tertiary education. The politicians swallowed the money up. Our parents pay 30% of our pay to the gov each year. Say if you earn 100k per annum, 30k goes to the gov every year. Parents work 18 years (since you are 18 years old when you apply), parents already contributed 540k of taxes to the gov.
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  #88 Old 20-05-2011 Default Re: The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

Ahh I wouldn't advocate ditching the country just because the government (important distinction) didn't give you a scholarship.

Yet another problem with long-serving governments; they get confused with the state. Gov't =/= state. Malaysia is still a beautiful country with plenty to offer. The government sucks. The government influences the country but the country is more than just the executive and legislative branch. It encompasses all of us, the citizens, too. Ditching Malaysia means ditching its people as well (but I do understand how some people just have to leave the country...but I never like it when it's solely because of the government. But that's reality.)

I'm loyal to my country. A lot. Not so much with the government (read: almost not at all).

Interesting points raised though. Yes, we are ridiculously generous with scholarships. In fact I'm in support of abolishing the PILN and focusing on building up our local institutions. And also yes, other countries with fewer scholarships have less expensive education. Trade-off either way. What's right? I'd say the other states present a better model. Less expensive local education + fewer overseas scholarships means we have more of our brightest populating our local unis.
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  #89 Old 20-05-2011 Default Re: The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

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Originally Posted by Cactus View Post
Ya, abolish JPA PILN lah.

But that hasn't happened.

So we are now whining on this forum about how unfair JPA has been.

(sorry, I got too worked up. Leaving now....)
This is the worst thing that will happen to us non-bumis. The JPA scholarship is the only scholarship given by the gov for us non-bumis, whereas bumis still have the MARA scholarship. If they abolish JPA, bumis still have MARA. And do you know? The total number of MARA scholarship exceeds the total number of JPA scholarship. That's like, sucking all of the non-bumi's money, and giving them out to the bumis.
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  #90 Old 20-05-2011 Default Re: The Quality of PILN / PIDN result 2011.

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Originally Posted by AlternateF4 View Post
In other countries, Europe, America, Australia, people pay a higher amount of tax, but get higher education for free. Yes you may say that we too have our own public U's, eg UM, USM, UKM, but not many of us are able to secure a place for them. Worse still, they implement the "quota system" and "unjust meritocracy system" which made many of us opt for Private U's instead. So, let me ask you guys, do you think a bright student, however wasn't EXTREMELY COMPETITIVE enough, yet parents are not able to pay for Private U's, be denied a chance to further their studies? Think about it, many 10A students were not able to secure a scholarship.
Are you sure America is in the list of free higher education? You should see the amount of student debts there are because of loans for higher education. And yeaaaaa. The amount of taxes they pay. Crazy right? Where does the tax money go? Middle east.

Er, do you have figures for what you just said? Securing a place isn't TOO hard if you take the STPM route. Securing a place in a course of choice is the problem. But that problem is a universal problem.

Private Us sprung up because of the demand. It's a spiral thing... Your point is quite invalid. Plus these days, need-based scholarships for local private unis are becoming more easily available because of the increased competition between university. Honestly, if you're TRULY bright (and resourceful = not just banking on one option to get out of the country) opportunities WILL come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlternateF4 View Post
Don't be fooled. The taxes we pay should be enough to secure us places in tertiary education. The politicians swallowed the money up. Our parents pay 30% of our pay to the gov each year. Say if you earn 100k per annum, 30k goes to the gov every year. Parents work 18 years (since you are 18 years old when you apply), parents already contributed 540k of taxes to the gov.
Kid, you do realize that the tax money goes to other parts of the economy like HEALTHCARE and EDUCATION. We literally have free education from primary 1 to form 6. THAT is quite crazy. Our healthcare system is actually really good BETTER THAN AMERICA YOU KNOW! The fact that people can afford cheap healthcare. That is where your parents money goes to.
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Last edited by ayjiahui; 20-05-2011 at 12:53 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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