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Studying A Foreign Language

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  #71 Old 05-04-2010 Default Re: Studying a foreign language

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Originally Posted by yanno_yamster View Post
Eh, really? Then how about Hokkien, Hakka, etc...?
ya lor...I think Cantonese is one of the dialects too.
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  #72 Old 05-04-2010 Default Re: Studying a foreign language

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Eh, really? Then how about Hokkien, Hakka, etc...?
Hokkien is part of min, 闽. Which is a language on its own. Hakka can be considered as a separate language too.

This situation is similar to Spain(and France) where you have Catalan, Basque, Castilian, Galician etc

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  #73 Old 05-04-2010 Default Re: Studying a foreign language

i wish to learn japanese.
i have 2 brothers that can speak fluently in this language, but they never ever teach me.
and keep on saying that mother tounge is the best.
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  #74 Old 18-04-2010 Default Re: Studying a foreign language

The Star Education pullout published an article on learning new languages today......

http://thestar.com.my/education/stor...&sec=education
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  #75 Old 23-01-2011 Default Re: Studying a foreign language

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Hokkien is part of min, 闽. Which is a language on its own. Hakka can be considered as a separate language too.

This situation is similar to Spain(and France) where you have Catalan, Basque, Castilian, Galician etc
Personally, I would consider all of this as dialects. A language is what everyone speaks compared to a dialect where only a certain amount of people in a certain area speaks. I'll give some examples to better explain this:

In Spain, only people in Barcelona speak Catalan and the people in some northern region (I forgot where and am lazy to search for it) speak Basque, but all Spaniards speak Spanish. So Spanish is a language and the others are all dialects.

In France, I can only think of a dialect for the moment and it's Alsatian. Only people in Alsace speak this dialect. Some of the kids nowadays only know a few words of it. But everyone here speaks French. In southern and nothern France, there are the so-called southern and northern accents respectively. As the name indicates, they're actually French with their own accents. In conclusion, French is a language and Alsatian is a dialect.

In China, there are all those dialects that you all know so well of (including Shanghai dialect, Sichuan dialect, etc.). But what they all learn at school is Mandarin. So it's the same conclusion here.

In Japan, there is the well known Osaka "ben" for Detective Conan fans. They (Japanese) call it a dialect but it's actually more like an accent. Again, everyone in Japan speaks Japanese so it's a language and the Osaka "ben" that only Osaka residents speak is a dialect.

Hope that clears all the misunderstandings between languages and dialects.
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  #76 Old 23-01-2011 Default Re: Studying a foreign language

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Personally, I would consider all of this as dialects. A language is what everyone speaks compared to a dialect where only a certain amount of people in a certain area speaks. I'll give some examples to better explain this:

In Spain, only people in Barcelona speak Catalan and the people in some northern region (I forgot where and am lazy to search for it) speak Basque, but all Spaniards speak Spanish. So Spanish is a language and the others are all dialects.

In France, I can only think of a dialect for the moment and it's Alsatian. Only people in Alsace speak this dialect. Some of the kids nowadays only know a few words of it. But everyone here speaks French. In southern and nothern France, there are the so-called southern and northern accents respectively. As the name indicates, they're actually French with their own accents. In conclusion, French is a language and Alsatian is a dialect.

In China, there are all those dialects that you all know so well of (including Shanghai dialect, Sichuan dialect, etc.). But what they all learn at school is Mandarin. So it's the same conclusion here.

In Japan, there is the well known Osaka "ben" for Detective Conan fans. They (Japanese) call it a dialect but it's actually more like an accent. Again, everyone in Japan speaks Japanese so it's a language and the Osaka "ben" that only Osaka residents speak is a dialect.

Hope that clears all the misunderstandings between languages and dialects.
That's how you see it but it's not how it is.

Catalan is not a dialect. Say that in Barcelona and you'll likely get shot. Not all Spaniards speak spanish either.

Cantonese(Yue) is not a dialect. It's a language in it's own right. Within it, you have Taishanese etc etc. The Wu language of which shanghainese is a dialect of is a language in it's own right. So is Suzhou-nese a dialect of Wu.

So please stop confusing people.
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  #77 Old 23-01-2011 Default Re: Studying a foreign language

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That's how you see it but it's not how it is.

Catalan is not a dialect. Say that in Barcelona and you'll likely get shot. Not all Spaniards speak spanish either.

Cantonese(Yue) is not a dialect. It's a language in it's own right. Within it, you have Taishanese etc etc. The Wu language of which shanghainese is a dialect of is a language in it's own right. So is Suzhou-nese a dialect of Wu.

So please stop confusing people.
Before accusing someone of confusing people, you might as well give us some arguments to your stated points. I, on the other hand, gave some examples.

Definitions:
language
dialect
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dialect
A variety of a language peculiar to a particular region or group within a larger community, usually but not always existing in the spoken form only.
May I ask how you write Cantonese or Hokkien or Hakka? Using Chinese characters which are recognised in the world as the official way of writing Mandarin. In other words, what I called dialects use the characters from Mandarin. They don't have their own form of writing. Alsatian only exists in spoken form to the contrary of Catalan.

It's true that you might get punched in the face in Barcelona for saying that Catalan is a dialect, but that is only because they're proud of their language and that they're not open-minded enough to accept it as a dialect. It's the same for calling a Basque a Spaniard. I've met some before. Before I knew where they come from, I heard them speaking Spanish so I asked if they were from Spain. They replied "NO!" and said that they were from Basque. Wonderful...

By the way, I'm NOT from Malaysia but I'm from Sarawak.

Anyway, could I please have some examples of Spaniards who don't speak Spanish?

That's how I see it from my understanding of the differences between the definition of the words "language" and "dialect".

Another way to see it is that every existing languages and dialects are actually dialects and they were all derived from the only language ever existed :

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
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  #78 Old 29-01-2011 Default Re: Studying A Foreign Language

I have been trying to learn 5 different languages german, french, mandarin, japanese and arabic but i never reach even a sentence in any of these language.... I wonder if i do need to write them down and say them rather than just read and hear.

I'm also trying to learn russian language(slavik) and hindi language. I hope someone can help me master them please really need to know the details to study them! Oh btw youtube is one of the best learning source for language truly thankful for it
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  #79 Old 29-01-2011 Default Re: Studying A Foreign Language

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I have been trying to learn 5 different languages german, french, mandarin, japanese and arabic but i never reach even a sentence in any of these language.... I wonder if i do need to write them down and say them rather than just read and hear.

I'm also trying to learn russian language(slavik) and hindi language. I hope someone can help me master them please really need to know the details to study them! Oh btw youtube is one of the best learning source for language truly thankful for it
I'm studying Japanese, and I'd like to share about learning Japanese. When you read Japanese, do you only read romaji? I would say that it's much easier if you learn hiragana and katakana first. By doing this, you'll become more familiar with the sound system. Besides, it'll be easier to understand how particles (no, wa, ga, ni, etc) work in constructing sentences. Romaji does not represent these well, and they are not really standardized, so sometimes you'll be confused by romaji.

If you already learned hiragana and katakana, then you're on the right track. If you're interested on how to read Japanese, learning kanji along the way is pretty fun too. You don't have to know all kanji characters, just pick up the most commonly used kanji will be good enough for a starter.

After that, learn particles first. They are really important. Only when you understand how to use these particles that you'll be able to make sentences. Of course, you'd have to learn a set of vocabulary too
After that, study different sentence structure, how to say the same thing in different ways.

I'd say that learning a language requires a person to listen and speak. Try to repeat what you heard, make your own sentences and say them, and make simple conversations with others.

I hope this answered your question a bit.
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  #80 Old 30-01-2011 Default Re: Studying A Foreign Language

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Originally Posted by kaze View Post
I'm studying Japanese, and I'd like to share about learning Japanese. When you read Japanese, do you only read romaji? I would say that it's much easier if you learn hiragana and katakana first. By doing this, you'll become more familiar with the sound system. Besides, it'll be easier to understand how particles (no, wa, ga, ni, etc) work in constructing sentences. Romaji does not represent these well, and they are not really standardized, so sometimes you'll be confused by romaji.

If you already learned hiragana and katakana, then you're on the right track. If you're interested on how to read Japanese, learning kanji along the way is pretty fun too. You don't have to know all kanji characters, just pick up the most commonly used kanji will be good enough for a starter.

After that, learn particles first. They are really important. Only when you understand how to use these particles that you'll be able to make sentences. Of course, you'd have to learn a set of vocabulary too
After that, study different sentence structure, how to say the same thing in different ways.

I'd say that learning a language requires a person to listen and speak. Try to repeat what you heard, make your own sentences and say them, and make simple conversations with others.

I hope this answered your question a bit.
Thanks kaze you help me greatly . I didn't learn the details on japanese language rather i learn the vocabulary that is use in modern day interaction. For example, school = gakko and some sentences, But nevertheless, it widens my perspective on nihongo so thank you.

Now the only problem (well for now) is how long will it take till a person can write and say those sentences from a beginner's point. 3 months? 3 weeks? 3 years? >.<
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