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youngyew Male
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  #1 Old 11-05-2007 Default

I laughed when I read the part where "scientists analyzed DNA to find that Hang Tuah was a Chinese"..

There is no technique available to determine someone's race - in fact they haven't even figured out any DNA markers for races. The person who originally wrote this should at least try to make a rumour sounds more realistic.
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Excal
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  #2 Old 11-05-2007 Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngyew
I laughed when I read the part where "scientists analyzed DNA to find that Hang Tuah was a Chinese"..

There is no technique available to determine someone's race - in fact they haven't even figured out any DNA markers for races. The person who originally wrote this should at least try to make a rumour sounds more realistic.
Well, the story that Hang Tuah is a chinese is a little farfetched, but Young Yew shouldn't laugh either. You should understand the fact that we are living in the 21st Century...modern times.

http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/ is an interesting site...

And from BBC,

DNA testing can provide you with answers to a number of questions, such as proving a connection between individuals via a common ancestor, linking you to another branch of your family with a common surname, or even assessing your ethnic background[/b]
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  #3 Old 11-05-2007 Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Excal
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngyew
I laughed when I read the part where "scientists analyzed DNA to find that Hang Tuah was a Chinese"..

There is no technique available to determine someone's race - in fact they haven't even figured out any DNA markers for races. The person who originally wrote this should at least try to make a rumour sounds more realistic.
Well, the story that Hang Tuah is a chinese is a little farfetched, but Young Yew shouldn't laugh either. You should understand the fact that we are living in the 21st Century...modern times.

http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/ is an interesting site...

And from BBC,

DNA testing can provide you with answers to a number of questions, such as proving a connection between individuals via a common ancestor, linking you to another branch of your family with a common surname, or even assessing your ethnic background[/b]
Eerm, I haven't been able to peruse both articles (rushing to uni now), but these are a few sources regarding our issue:

Scientific American
Wikipedia


Anyway, .com companies are not always the most authoritative source for scientific claims. I know wikipedia isn't either.
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Excal
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  #4 Old 11-05-2007 Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngyew
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excal
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngyew
I laughed when I read the part where "scientists analyzed DNA to find that Hang Tuah was a Chinese"..

There is no technique available to determine someone's race - in fact they haven't even figured out any DNA markers for races. The person who originally wrote this should at least try to make a rumour sounds more realistic.
Well, the story that Hang Tuah is a chinese is a little farfetched, but Young Yew shouldn't laugh either. You should understand the fact that we are living in the 21st Century...modern times.

http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/ is an interesting site...

And from BBC,

DNA testing can provide you with answers to a number of questions, such as proving a connection between individuals via a common ancestor, linking you to another branch of your family with a common surname, or even assessing your ethnic background[/b]
Eerm, I haven't been able to peruse both articles (rushing to uni now), but these are a few sources regarding our issue:

Scientific American
Wikipedia


Anyway, .com companies are not always the most authoritative source for scientific claims. I know wikipedia isn't either.
From wikipedia we also have, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test

BTW, its not always so with .com sites. Besides some .org and .edu sites are sometimes not trustworthy although the occurences are lower. Scientific American(sciam.com) is a .com too? I believe BBC.co.uk is trustworthy enough.

Nevertheless, I believe that the issue is still a controversial one with no definite right or wrong.
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  #5 Old 11-05-2007 Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngyew
I laughed when I read the part where "scientists analyzed DNA to find that Hang Tuah was a Chinese"..

There is no technique available to determine someone's race - in fact they haven't even figured out any DNA markers for races. The person who originally wrote this should at least try to make a rumour sounds more realistic.

Yes, there are ways to genetically test a persons "race",
watch the episode called Scientific Adam on National Geographic (or discovery channel, forgot which one)
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  #6 Old 11-05-2007 Default

Uhh, Excal, you kinda shot your own foot there, with the wikipedia article on geneological DNA testing.

On the subject of ethnic geneology testings, i quote:

Quote:
Ethnic tests

Autosomal tests that test the recombining chromosomes are available. These attempt to measure an individual's mixed ethnic heritage. The tests' validity and reliability have been called into question but they continue to be popular.

[edit] Biogeographical ancestry

Autosomal DNA testing purports to determine the "genetic percentage" of certain ethnicities in a person. These tests examine SNPs, which are locations on the DNA where one nucleotide has "mutated" or "switched" to a different nucleotide. These tests are designed to tell what percentage Native American, European, East Asian, and African a person is. These tests are controversial?their validity has not been independently confirmed ? and the results are often disputed.
You basically quoted a website with controversial standards of truth, which also is undecided on the point you are standing on.
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  #7 Old 11-05-2007 Default

I haven't read enough to make a definitive statement here, but this is briefly what I know:

1. Yes there is such thing as "genealogy testing". But it isn't the same as "finding out the race". Genealogy testing means tracing family tree, finding out the genetic relationship between different people. However, just because somebody is 90% related to me and is 80% related to Ahmad, doesn't mean that that person is a Chinese.


2. There are scientific Adam and Eve (which are named after the biblical characters but have nothing to do with them).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve


3. Yes, there are enough DNA polymorphism and some mitochondrial DNA markers to differentiate between large ethnical categories like "black" and "european" or "european" and "east asian". But small differences between, say, "Chinese" and "Korean" or "Chinese" and "Malay" has not really been demonstrated to be reliably detectable.


I will update on that when I have time to read more on the topic.
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  #8 Old 11-05-2007 Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoblast
Uhh, Excal, you kinda shot your own foot there, with the wikipedia article on geneological DNA testing.

On the subject of ethnic geneology testings, i quote:

Quote:
Ethnic tests

Autosomal tests that test the recombining chromosomes are available. These attempt to measure an individual's mixed ethnic heritage. The tests' validity and reliability have been called into question but they continue to be popular.

[edit] Biogeographical ancestry

Autosomal DNA testing purports to determine the "genetic percentage" of certain ethnicities in a person. These tests examine SNPs, which are locations on the DNA where one nucleotide has "mutated" or "switched" to a different nucleotide. These tests are designed to tell what percentage Native American, European, East Asian, and African a person is. These tests are controversial—their validity has not been independently confirmed — and the results are often disputed.
You basically quoted a website with controversial standards of truth, which also is undecided on the point you are standing on.
Don't worry my foot is healing and so is my sad heart. Well, I did say it is contoversial. It's nice to see that someone actually go to the links. Haha
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  #9 Old 11-05-2007 Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngyew
I haven't read enough to make a definitive statement here, but this is briefly what I know:

1. Yes there is such thing as "genealogy testing". But it isn't the same as "finding out the race". Genealogy testing means tracing family tree, finding out the genetic relationship between different people. However, just because somebody is 90% related to me and is 80% related to Ahmad, doesn't mean that that person is a Chinese.


2. There are scientific Adam and Eve (which are named after the biblical characters but have nothing to do with them).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve


3. Yes, there are enough DNA polymorphism and some mitochondrial DNA markers to differentiate between large ethnical categories like "black" and "european" or "european" and "east asian". But small differences between, say, "Chinese" and "Korean" or "Chinese" and "Malay" has not really been demonstrated to be reliably detectable.


I will update on that when I have time to read more on the topic.
In the article there are these lines, which clearly separated them.

Chinese: The Chinese region of East Asia.
Japanese: The Japanese Archipelago.
Polynesian: The Polynesian Islands.
Southeast Asian: Southeast Asia and the Malay Archipelago.
Tibetan: The Himalayas and Tibetan Plateau.

Young Yew, maybe you are right, but I just love arguing for the sake of it. LOL. Keep up the wonderful replies, or I'll bore myself to death.
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  #10 Old 11-05-2007 Default

Autosomal, Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA testing has actually to be proven as a reliable method of tracing your ancestry. Although it doesn't really tell you what your ethnicity is, it can the ancestry lines of two individuals and determine if both of them share the same ancestors. This is very popular among the Jews who try to prove which tribe a person is. Usually it's used on the Levites or other "religiously superior" tribes because they want to make sure that only the descendents of those tribes are allowed to be high priests.

But this post doesn't really belong here...
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