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Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

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HetufChang Male
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  #41 Old 19-11-2009 Default Re: Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

nice thread.
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frankchong
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  #42 Old 20-11-2009 Default Re: Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

I am not a medical doctor, eventhough I have a number of close friends who are. I want to share a few thoughts with you here, which concerns me a lot and hope you too.

1. Politics in Malaysia in more concern with wealth distribution than wealth creation. Its education system is preoccupied with training student for public section jobs of the past, as it was in the colonial days. In the 70s and 80s there were enough places in the public sector for the bumis and some other highly selected students to keep them employed in public sector. Today it is no longer the case except may be in medicine.

2. Students and parents gravitate towards professions that they believe offer better prospects, and an education system that gives a lot of As, you end up with many "top students". Rather than going for quality, the easier out is for the politicians to increase the enrolment. They have done it to computer science, engineering and now medicine, of course they have done it to other professions much earlier.

3. Take computer science as an example, in USA, India and China computer science and EE do attract many of the best students, with these talent, we can create the best products and technology. There are many companies with thousands of engineers. We need engineers and scientists who can do the seminal work and a lot more to implement them in a large scale. In you look at Malaysia, there are many computer science graduates, many of their skill levels are low and we do not have the leaders to lead the rest, creating job. Many are unemployed, and now it is hard to attract the best talent into the field. During my time, there was a core group of talented students wanting to do EE/CS eventhough we had the choice to choose any other profession if we decided to do so, based on our results etc. If you can not attract the best talent into a field, you are not going to be the leader in that field. If you look around, it is happening in other professions, but at a different pace.

4. The really good ones will find their way out of these mess, but it could be painful for many.

5. A lot of the planning and discussion is based on zero sum game, wealth or opportunity redistribution. I think the medical profession better think about creating an ecoystem to generate more wealth. Create medical centers that can offer the best services at competitive cost for patients from ASEAN, China and the rest of the world. To do these you need some of the best doctors from around the world and a good team of support staff, and hopefully each will find the place he/she fits. If you have the best doctors to attract the patients, the chances is that there will be more opportunities for the other doctors too.

6. One may not need the best doctor, but it is important to have one around, in case you need one.

7. The medical profession still attract some of the best talents in Malaysia, please think carefully and see whether you all can work together to create the right ecosystem. The politicians are more interested in how to get elected, give the impressions that they know what they are doing, so that will do things to please the electorate, eventhough it may not be the right thing to do.


regards,
Frank

Post edited for clarity. Next time, put some spaces between bullet points so that it is easier to read, ok?
*seehua~

Last edited by vseehua; 20-11-2009 at 10:55 PM.
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wyeth_10 Female
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  #43 Old 20-11-2009 Default Re: Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

I think it doesn't matter whether its locally trained or overseas trained doctors, but its the quality of training received in the college during their studies. Some medical unis overseas may give good training, some may not, like the eg. of the ukraine one. Even in msia, there were some med school whos teaching standards is well below international standards [best not to mention names]. Also, the bias treatment received by MO posted in General hospital...its kinda normal. This is no new scenario. The seniors will always pick on the juniors. My lecturer, told us that when he was doing his posting in goverment hospital, his housemanship time, he was treated like a dog . Scary!! Of course this does not occur to ALL of new doctors...just to point out there such things had,is and might happen to those who are in this line of field.

Last edited by wyeth_10; 20-11-2009 at 05:27 PM. Reason: typo
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supergoh Male
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  #44 Old 21-11-2009 Default Re: Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

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Originally Posted by wyeth_10 View Post
Even in msia, there were some med school whos teaching standards is well below international standards [best not to mention names].
Dear wyeth,

You are most welcomed to mention the names of the medical schools concerned.Give any example or/and evidence to support your statement.

By doing so,you may help prevent some prospective medical students from wasting their money and time in the medical schools concerned.

All prospective medical students need to be sensible ,open minded and mature enough to compare the quality of medical schools.

Let them make their own judgement over your statement.
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wyeth_10 Female
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  #45 Old 21-11-2009 Default Re: Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

I daren't mention any names as there is no hardproof evidence. Also it may incur some legal problems, since this is already on a public forum.

However an example would be saying if i talked with some doctors who graduated from these med. unis and they themselves admit that if the uni did not "help" them, they would not have passed off being doctors. However, of course this is only an "under-the blanket" thing.

"All prospective medical students need to be sensible ,open minded and mature enough to compare the quality of medical schools."-supergoh

Like you said, those who wants to apply to medical schools would do their own thorough research of that faculty and ask the students who are already in the about their experiences. And it is also the individuals responsibility to improve themselves and learn the skill of being a proper doctor, regardless of how crappy the institution teaches them.
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louis8_8wang Male
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  #46 Old 02-12-2009 Default Re: Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

Eventhough the number of doctors in Malaysia is increasing this few years, there are getting more and more diseases outbreak and pandemic too. Hence, there is no doubt that the demand of doctors is still relatively high. I agree with Frank that Malaysia requires more leader and pro in this field to trigger the improvement, and to catch up the steps of the others.
What I worry is the outbreak of unknown deseases.

In addition, there is no doubt that the decrease of the ratio of doctors to patients will indirectly increase the quality of service of hospitals. Above all, delaying of the treatment can be avoided, and there is always someone back-up the others. Everything is foolproof.
Anyway, for your information, there is an increase of students applied for pharmacy instead of Medic last year in PSD Scholarship Application. I also heard that the requirement to enter pharmacy is higher than Medic, but i wonder if the information is reliable.
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Last edited by louis8_8wang; 02-12-2009 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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supergoh Male
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  #47 Old 03-12-2009 Default Re: Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

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Originally Posted by louis8_8wang View Post
Eventhough the number of doctors in Malaysia is increasing this few years, there are getting more and more diseases outbreak and pandemic too. Hence, there is no doubt that the demand of doctors is still relatively high. I agree with Frank that Malaysia requires more leader and pro in this field to trigger the improvement, and to catch up the steps of the others.
What I worry is the outbreak of unknown deseases.

In addition, there is no doubt that the decrease of the ratio of doctors to patients will indirectly increase the quality of service of hospitals. Above all, delaying of the treatment can be avoided, and there is always someone back-up the others. Everything is foolproof.
Anyway, for your information, there is an increase of students applied for pharmacy instead of Medic last year in PSD Scholarship Application. I also heard that the requirement to enter pharmacy is higher than Medic, but i wonder if the information is reliable.
Dear louis8_8wang,

Maybe you can buy this article published by Medical Teacher

Medical Education in Malaysia
2008, Vol. 30, No. 2, Pages 119-123
Dr.Victor K. E. Lim.

The solution to outbreak of unknown diseases is education, enforcement and sometimes vaccination, not necessarily getting more doctors. Sometimes, it is more practical to get more nurses and pharmacists than doctors.
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louis8_8wang Male
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  #48 Old 03-12-2009 Default Re: Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

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Originally Posted by supergoh View Post
Dear louis8_8wang,

it is more practical to get more nurses and pharmacists than doctors.
That's very true that we need more nurses and pharmacists, so are doctors. It is just my opinion. Even the number of doctors is in excess,t here is no drawback to have competition.
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youngyew Male
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  #49 Old 03-12-2009 Default Re: Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

What is this unknown disease in Malaysia? Can someone tell me more about it? I must be missing something because I don't remember reading about them in medicine or other blogs.
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  #50 Old 03-12-2009 Default Re: Would there be an excess of medical doctors in this country in the future?

Erm...sorry ya, what I mean is we might face the outbreak of disease which we don't have any record data before anytime.
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