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Bersih 3.0 Rally

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Nicholas92 Male
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  #91 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

^haha well, gotta get used to it eh ;)

No one underestimates the power of our votes. One vote can make a difference. The problem is that the EC really is being unfair. Looking at the stats, the power of one person's vote is not exactly the same relative to another. For instance, one voter in a huge constituency has weaker voting power, because their vote accounts for a smaller percentage, whereas in a small constituency, one person's vote counts for a lot more. All the gerrymandering is obvious, one need only look at the stats. So to me it's not really up for debate that Bersih's claims of electoral fraud are bogus. They're pretty convincing.

As for discounting rallies - I'm afraid I still disagree. I will not count rallies as bad things because of the actions of a few. That is exactly what a tyranny would want in any situation - for an uprisings or popular movements to be tainted by the acts of a few. Best of all it's so simple to orchestrate - throw in a few bad eggs and the whole thing gets discredited, which is why it's important to distinguish between the majority and the minority in this case.
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  #92 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

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Originally Posted by Zulhelmi View Post
What's a Remag Writer anyway? I've joined Recom for quite sometimes, ever since I got my SPM result. But only been active for the last couple of weeks since I just finished my diploma. Never thought that you guys do make this kind of conversations beside talking about how nervous you are at interviews *shrugs*
hey, i wouldn't know! i don't usually make this kind of conversation anyway. ask my bro. he's more of a recom veteran than me
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  #93 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

I saw comments on violent ending of Bersih. Would like to chip in some thoughts, which may be already obvious to some of you:

1. The event started with people gathering even a night before. The entire event was more than 12 hours with close to 10,000 participants.

If the event is indeed scheduled to be violent, or if the protesters are indeed violent in nature, you wouldn't see violence only towards the very end, by these few people.

2. It only takes one person to cross the barricade to welcome a violent comeback from the police.

The cost of causing a rebellion is miniscule, yet the reward from causing it is favoring a certain side.

I leave it up to you to judge for the truth.
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  #94 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

A very insightful note widely shared in Facebook about how the Bersih movement is now coming to an impasse with regards to its moral righteousness, now that violence is ensuing and is actually partially coming from the crowd itself.

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My personal thoughts on Bersih 3.0, interspersed with some facts
by Asohan Aryaduray on Sunday, 29 April 2012 at 10:57

I was there with a fraternity of media advocates and journalists – some practising, some no longer – and their friends and family. Kee Thuan Chye, author of No More Bullshit, was our unofficial leader.

At Central Market prior to the protestors moving to the vicinity of Dataran Merdeka, Datuk Ambiga Sreenevasan and other Bersih organisers reiterated many times that we were not to breach the barriers at Dataran, and that we will not break any laws. “Malaysians are a peaceful people,” she said. It was very important that the protest be peaceful and lawful.

This was drummed into the crowd many times.

There was a fantastic spirit amongst the people. People were well-behaved, and we all felt good. Off-the-cuff, we even started singing an improvised Bersih football supporters song. Malaysians were standing up for themselves, and standing with each other. Race did not matter. It was like a Muhibbah dream come true, but a 1Malaysia nightmare for the Najib Administration. People always unite when they have a common external adversary, and in case, it was the electoral system here.


Except that we were not *that* united. Elements in the crowd were confusing the issue. By the time we had reached Masjid Jamek, there were pockets of people shouting “Fuck Lynas,” “Hancur BN” and that late 1990s terminally ill horse, “Reformasi.” Many genuine Bersih supporters shook their heads quietly at that, but nobody was going to gainsay another’s right to freedom of expression, I guess.


Our group was inadvertently scattered before the first teargas attacks. The people tried to disperse peacefully, and may have succeeded in doing so. But there were more teargas bombs fired. There was very little time or space to manoeuvre. Those who managed to make into quiet corners and alleys to recover were attacked again and again by fumes of drifting teargas. It felt like an unending onslaught. Many people began murmuring. The Barisan Nasional’s attempt to portray Bersih 3.0 as an anti-government rally was becoming true in a self-fulfilling sort of way. A Malay youth next to me shouted “Benci Polis!”


So many felt betrayed and angry. Even me.


But now I see videos of protestors breaking down the barriers and committing acts of violence. And yes, while the police showed more restraint this time, they were behind some of these as well. Al-Jazeera journalists reported via Skype that their equipment was smashed by policemen to prevent them recording some of these acts of violence.


We expected that from the Government, but having cast the first stone, those protestors have now undermined Bersih by painting as true all the Government’s fabricated arguments against the movement. Even some of the international media, inadvertently Bersih’s greatest allies if only by dint of their independence and reach, are reporting that the protest turned violent, forcing the police to act.


Despite suffering from the teargas effects, I myself have not the spirit to summon the moral indignation I would like to have, because although they should have done so lawfully, I cannot blame the police for taking action against violent protestors.


Thanks to these “supporters,” Bersih has lost the moral momentum it has been gaining since the first rally prior to the 12th General Election. These “supporters” have now put Bersih in an untenable position: How do we proceed from here? If the Government refuses to address the 8-point manifesto; if the Parliamentary Select Committee fails to enact any real reforms; if the Administration waffles and procrastinates … what do we do now? Call for another peaceful assembly?


These “supporters” have betrayed the Malaysian Rakyat. I am not sure if my eyes are tearing now because of the remnants of the teargas I got hit with.
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  #95 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

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Originally Posted by youngyew View Post
A very insightful note widely shared in Facebook about how the Bersih movement is now coming to an impasse with regards to its moral righteousness, now that violence is ensuing and is actually partially coming from the crowd itself.
I wouldn't jump into the conclusion that violence are coming from the crowd. As I said in the previous post, the event started with people gathering even a night before. The entire event was more than 12 hours with close to 10,000 participants. If the event is indeed scheduled to be violent, or if the protesters are indeed violent in nature, you wouldn't see violence only towards the very end, by these few people.
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  #96 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

Digressing slightly here but.... this thread is generating more meaningful discussion than all of shuwenteo's other threads combined. Lol.
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  #97 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

I didn't mean the event was scheduled to be violent, I meant part of the crowd turned violent as the series of event transpired. There's no denying that the majority of the crowd are peace-loving people who kept their calm even in the face of tear gas and water cannon, but the fact that some seemingly genuine bad apples are amongst the crowd is indeed a blemish on the whole cause. Another point raised by the author which is the hijacking by anti-Lynas, Reformasi sentiments is also regrettable.

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Originally Posted by Young View Post
Digressing slightly here but.... this thread is generating more meaningful discussion than all of shuwenteo's other threads combined. Lol.
I would say that ReCom has not seen such thoughtful exchange of ideas for months. So keep it coming everyone.

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hey, i wouldn't know! i don't usually make this kind of conversation anyway. ask my bro. he's more of a recom veteran than me
<digression> Is Nicholas92 really nicholas93's brother?
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Last edited by youngyew; 29-04-2012 at 09:44 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #98 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

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Originally Posted by youngyew View Post
I didn't mean the event was scheduled to be violent, I meant part of the crowd turned violent as the series of event transpired. There's no denying that the majority of the crowd are peace-loving people who kept their calm even in the face of tear gas and water cannon, but the fact that some seemingly genuine bad apples are amongst the crowd is indeed a blemish on the whole cause. Another point raised by the author which is the hijacking by anti-Lynas, Reformasi sentiments is also regrettable.


I would say that ReCom has not seen such thoughtful exchange of ideas for months. So keep it coming everyone.
Agreed. I would just like to suggest additional reservations to the thoughts of the "genuine" bad apples. The cost of causing a rebellion is miniscule, yet the reward from causing it, is high and necessary for a certain side.

We have thoughtful exchange because we have ideas from two sides of the fence, and both are actively discussing in very professional manner.
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  #99 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

no one can blame the police for taking action against violent protestors. but when they start attacking civilians indiscriminately, it is indicative of a lack of professionalism, composure and regard for the law. if the very people who are supposed to be enforcing the law break it repeatedly and engage in dubious conduct, then chaos and anarchy reign supreme.

no doubt the actions of some protestors(if they were even genuine protestors) were regrettable and have caused bersih to lose some momentum. but i disagree that it is these "supporters" who have betrayed the rakyat. why was bersih even conceived in the first place? the ruling coalition must bear the brunt of the blame for its double standards, double-talking, flip-flopping, hip-hopping(no not really), refusing calls for more transparency, high treason in selling out our nation and blatant abuse of power with regards to our electoral system amongst a host of other criminal acts and whatnot.
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  #100 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

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Originally Posted by shuwenteo View Post
Sorry, you are dead wrong. Pls do some investigations before accusing Bersih.
We have done research, thank you very much. And we are not accusing Bersih of being completely in the wrong; the reality of the situation is that both Bersih and the police force have had a part to play in the ensuing violence. Yes, provocateurs were almost certainly present but I think it is generally accepted that some of the mischief came from legitimate supporters as well. Most of the alternative media seem to have arrived at this conclusion too.

Instead of just saying we are 'dead wrong' and posting some vague photo, why don't you pull in some evidence to back you up?
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Last edited by Young; 29-04-2012 at 10:18 PM.
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