ReCom.org
Portal Page Forum Wiki Social Groups Scholarship Holders Infobase Site Map About
Go Back   ReCom.org > Forum > ReCom Cafe > Malaysia Today

Malaysia Today Discussion about issues related to Malaysian politics and economy.

Bersih 3.0 Rally

Reply
 
Thread Tools
quest_5692 Male
Less Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 148
  #41 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

i think critically and i think bersih 3.0 is nothing more than a free political publicity for the opposition. the commoners were USED by the opposition to achieve private agenda. i used to think the opposition is our hope to change the current state of the nation but i frown on disgusting maneuvers to achieve private goals. The recent lynas, ptptn and bersih call from opposition had took away ALL my respect to the opposition. Asymmetric information and its best.
quest_5692 is offline   Reply With Quote
Zulhelmi Male
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 154
  #42 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

Quote:
Originally Posted by quest_5692 View Post
i think critically and i think bersih 3.0 is nothing more than a free political publicity for the opposition. the commoners were USED by the opposition to achieve private agenda. i used to think the opposition is our hope to change the current state of the nation but i frown on disgusting maneuvers to achieve private goals. The recent lynas, ptptn and bersih call from opposition had took away ALL my respect to the opposition. Asymmetric information and its best.
I know right? I was actually saving my vote for the opposition in the next election (my first election) but seeing recent events that has took place, I feel very reluctant to go cast my vote at all...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seiryu View Post
Zulhelmi, over the past two decades the government has promised reforms and growth again and again. Yet, facts and figures have shown that their reformation plans, while grandiose on paper, failed to impress when it comes to implementation. We have stayed as middle income country for almost two decades with mediocre growth. Our labor force's average earning is at the world's lower quartile, even less than Botswana and Jamaica (BBC Global payscale comparison). This is a problem with the current ruling coalition, and has happened over and over again: they promise grand things like the ETP and electoral reforms, deceive the hopefuls like yourself, but their implementations lackluster. They wouldn't implement them well, why would they? Tell me, who is there to reprimand the current coalition if they do a bad job? No one!

Do you see now why it is so important to have a clean and fair election? Why a clean and fair election is the first step to transform the overpowered ruling party? It is the only avenue for the people, the rakyat, to pressure them: to make sure that they implement what they plan, to make sure that they set a standard up to expectation. Without a fair election, they can do whatever they want -control mainstream media, abuse the legal system, indulge in bribery, ignores weaknesses in the education system, disregard the low payscale and rising inflation -and still stay in power.

Bersih 3.0 is important, because the EC has not heeded to the people's demand for electoral reforms. On one hand it rolls out plans to agree with Bersih 2.0's conditions, on the other hand it tweaks the Election Offences Act at Dewan Rakyat clandestinely to render the reforms ineffective. Such lack of accountability demands to be reprimanded, and Bersih 3.0 rally becomes the best avenue for the unsatisfied to express their discontent.
So we are currently earning less than Botswana people but ARE WE suffering from malnutrition like them? We only have around 7 deaths for every 1000 births compared to Botswana of 40 deaths for every 1000 births. This prove our healthcare system is way better than them (pegi hospital kerajaan bayar RM1 je). Do these figures justify our aim of gaining higher income? I don't think so, higher income does not mean happy life.

Last edited by Zulhelmi; 28-04-2012 at 06:13 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Zulhelmi is offline   Reply With Quote
youngyew Male
ReCom Addict
Administrator
 
youngyew's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 5,741
  #43 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulhelmi View Post
So we are currently earning less than Botswana people but ARE WE suffering from malnutrition like them? We only have around 7 deaths for every 1000 births compared to Botswana of 40 deaths for every 1000 births. This prove our healthcare system is way better than them (pegi hospital kerajaan bayar RM1 je). Do these figures justify our aim of gaining higher income? I don't think so, higher income does not mean happy life.
On this point I am not sure what your source is. According to CIA World Factbook Malaysia's infant mortality rate is 14.57 per 1000 (rank 119 from the worst) while Botswana is 10.49 per 100 (rank 144). So, Botswana is actually doing BETTER than us.

Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2091rank.html
__________________
[][][][flickr]

Check out our ReCom wiki!
Do contribute by writing or editing the existing articles so that everyone now and in the future can benefit from it!

Last edited by youngyew; 28-04-2012 at 06:39 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
youngyew is offline   Reply With Quote
Zulhelmi Male
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 154
  #44 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

Quote:
Originally Posted by youngyew View Post
On this point I am not sure what your source is. According to CIA World Factbook Malaysia's infant mortality rate is 14.57 per 1000 (rank 119 from the worst) while Botswana is 10.49 per 100 (rank 144). So, Botswana is actually doing BETTER than us.

Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2091rank.html
Mine is from UN's World Population Prospects

http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Excel-Data/mortality.htm

And this one shows death caused by malnutrition, 1.5 deaths for every 100,000 people in Malaysia compared to 7.7 deaths in Botswana.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/c...on/by-country/
Zulhelmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Seiryu
Slightly Senior Member
 
Seiryu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 608
  #45 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulhelmi View Post
So we are currently earning less than Botswana people but ARE WE suffering from malnutrition like them? We only have around 7 deaths for every 1000 births compared to Botswana of 40 deaths for every 1000 births. This prove our healthcare system is way better than them (pegi hospital kerajaan bayar RM1 je). Do these figures justify our aim of gaining higher income? I don't think so, higher income does not mean happy life.
You are not getting my point and the bigger picture in my post.

Propelling the nation into a higher income status is arguably one of the top priorities of the governing administration. The current ruling coalition knows and acknowledges it, as proven again and again by their grandiose Economic plans to achieving it. Unfortunately, their implementations and efforts to follow the plans are simply not reflective of results that we would consider commendable. Again before Bersih 3.0 and mass rallies come along, before having a strengthened opposition, they simply don't have the incentive to implement them well. They exert control over the media, the legal system, the treasury and the public safety system, they have the power to escape from carrying out their responsibilities. There is no pressure for them to perform, or to indulge in crimes like bribery.

Bersih 3.0 and the people participating in the rally are trying to tell the government the otherwise: that we want a clean and fair election so that we can watch over you. If you continue to perform at a sub par level, you will be voted out. It is fighting for democracy at its best.

As a "student", I hope you're enlightened to see that what the people in Bersih 3.0 around the world do is commendable. They are fighting and contributing to a strong democratic foundation that is crucial to the formation of first world Malaysia. The people are finally beginning to think like first world country citizens. You of all people who keep complaining about Malaysians' third world mentality, should be supporting the cause.
__________________
If you see me replying, it means I'm bored.

Last edited by Seiryu; 28-04-2012 at 07:07 PM.
Seiryu is offline   Reply With Quote
Zulhelmi Male
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 154
  #46 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

All your points do make sense to me but I still feel that Bersih 3.0 is not necessary. Or at least the rally exploited the youngsters to achieve certain someone's political agenda.

Plus, I really think that quite a number who joined the rally didnt really know or get why they were there. They just wanna have fun (standard orang muda nak berseronok). And I think due to the youths' immature thinking, certain someone exploited them (us) to make this certain someone more powerful and influential.

Rome wasn't built in a day and Malaysia is only 50+ years old. We need more time to make ourselves perfect. Bersih rally is like blaming other than yourself while it is clear that every single one of us who need to be 'cleaned' in terms of attitude. No point of conducting and supporting the movement when only half of the supporters are eligible to vote. I wish that we were a communist country like China hahaha.
Zulhelmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Seiryu
Slightly Senior Member
 
Seiryu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 608
  #47 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

Malaysian youngsters are smarter than you think they are. It's time that the current government coalition notice and respect that, and stop thinking of them as "manipulatable" puppets. Simply put it this way: if the current coalition is really doing such a great job, no matter how the opposition tries to "manipulate" the people, they will fail.

Certainly Rome wasn't built in a day, and to reach the status that we want, democracy and balance of power is a crucial element.
__________________
If you see me replying, it means I'm bored.

Last edited by Seiryu; 28-04-2012 at 07:50 PM.
Seiryu is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Seiryu For This Useful Post:
nicholas93 Male
ReCom Staff
ReMag Writer
 
nicholas93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 136
  #48 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

what would you have us do? you say that the transformation program is a 'genuine attempt'? how many of these 'genuine attempts' have we been promised in the past? how many of them have been implemented to satisfaction? do tell us what are the other feasible alternatives to attain clean and fair elections.

bersih is not about dumping blame, rather it is about how we can move forward. the difference between us and the EC is that what our 'attitude' is supposed to be and who gets to be the judge of that is highly debatable, whereas ensuring clean and fair elections is the Election Commission's job, nay duty to our nation.

we used to be compared to hong kong, singapore and taiwan in terms of socioeconomic indicators. don't tell me now that us being marginally better(or even worse) than botswana is cause for comfort and celebration.

i seriously doubt most of the bersih supporters have been brainwashed to that extent that they attended bersih because their political masters told them to do so. are you saying that joining the march under the midday sun and being shot at with tear gas and being arrested are what youths consider 'fun'? (well not me, but i couldn't say it's the same for everyone) no doubt the opposition's agendas are in line with cleaner and fairer elections at this point in time, but i would think that exploiting youth enthusiasm and exuberance for political mileage is a lesser evil when compared to corruption, murder, high treason and the lot. i'm not endorsing it, i am merely pointing out the preferable option. capitalism itself is a system based upon exploitation (read karl marx), and undoubtedly it has led to the proliferation of corporate greed and the like, but it is preferable to the inefficient socialist economic system.

quest, you say you think critically. if that's the case would you agree with me that as of this moment, the opposition's track record is relatively less screwed up than the incumbent governments? if we are forced to choose between two evils, do we not choose the lesser of the evils?
__________________
Oh well, whatever, nevermind.
nicholas93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Zulhelmi Male
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 154
  #49 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

Just saw clips on Bersih 3.0 on Buletin Utama... Hmmm...

Yes, like I said, it did turned ugly. Shameful acts done by Malaysians, ruining public amenities, these are the consequences of this so-called peaceful rally.

The only smart thing that I could see by the members of the rally is their faces are mostly covered, I bet they were most probably students. Same goes with and especially those who joined Bersih outside Malaysia. Kenapa dik takut scholarship kena tarik balik?

Honestly, aku sedih sangat tengok apa kesudahan kepada Bersih 3.0. The intention was admirable (I guess) but due to the exploitation of these immature youngsters, darah muda membuak-buak nak protes habis semua kena musnah. I would honestly and seriously vote for the opposition because I do think they are doing a great job (I agree with nicholas93) but with this recent event that has happened, I don't know. Ambiga claimed that this event is not related to any political parties but guess who were the honourable guests?

At least the positive outcome of this movement, rally, whatever and together with the fact that some of states fell to PR is that this is a wake-up call for the current government.
Zulhelmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Seiryu
Slightly Senior Member
 
Seiryu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 608
  #50 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

Bulletin Utama. Really? Didn't anything we say about "media control" get through to you?

Australian Senator Teargassed in Malaysia

"Senator Xenophon, who is in Kuala Lumpur on an international fact-finding mission on election processes in Malaysia, was among the crowds when police fired teargas and chemical-laced water at demonstrators.

Until then it had been a peaceful rally that had included chanting and a speech by Malaysia's opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim, Senator Xenophon said.

"The police have just let off canister after canister of teargas," he said soon after the demonstration was broken up.

"People have been injured. People are fainting."


No personal attack in this forum, I understand. But I find your mockery of the students' effort highly disturbing. Why are they wearing masks? Read up and you be the judge whether the students are worthy of being ridiculed:

International Condemnation Of Malaysia’s Intimidation Of Its Own Students!

"This apparent attempt to threaten and intimidate students is as unacceptable as it is blatant.

The right to peaceful protest is fundamental to any democracy, as are free and fair elections, and they should not be subverted with threats and intimidation.

William Hague should be making urgent representations to the Malaysian government to ensure any such intimidation of students ceases.”
__________________
If you see me replying, it means I'm bored.

Last edited by Seiryu; 28-04-2012 at 09:06 PM.
Seiryu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bersih, election, politics, protests, rally

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bersih 2.0 surayahamdan Malaysia Today 76 17-07-2011 10:52 AM
Hindraf rally misled_youth Malaysia Today 41 10-01-2008 07:55 PM
Bersih rally misled_youth Malaysia Today 124 01-01-2008 12:04 AM


All times are GMT +8. The time now is 11:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

ReCom stands for Reborn Community. It has no affiliation with other organizations that may share the same name. The views expressed in this website solely represent the authors point of view and do not necessarily reflect the views of ReCom Anchors and other ReCom users.


 

Page generated in 0.13609 seconds with 15 queries