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Bersih 3.0 Rally

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czhong Male
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  #61 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

So you wanna walk the talk.. Tell me more how you walk your talk..

*just for laugh* ;)

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Seiryu
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  #62 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

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Originally Posted by Zulhelmi View Post
Tun Mahathir used to have all these haters during his tenure as the prime minister, so same thing is happening today. Bila dia dah turun, baru semua orang hargai jasa dia. My grandma told me that he was heavily criticized by the public on his mega projects (PLUS highway, Penang Bridge, Proton etc) and claimed that all these projects will turn into white elephant. Sekarang, Penang Bridge dah extend extra lane dan pulak tambah lagi satu jambatan baru sebab sesak sangat. So the public might be wrong and they may be right at certain times.

Cumanya, sekarang ada Internet, social networks, SMS, Facebook, Twitter, digital cameras etc. Benda merebak dengan cepat.

Ok lah, sudah. What's done is done, rally pun dah abis. Now kita balik ke hidup asal, jangan lupa vote for next election (itu pun kalau layak ) Peace!
There are many parts that I disagree with you, and I still do. For example, I think that people are smarter and more aware now, due to the internet and that is a good thing. Although I must say that through the discussion with you I have obtained a clearer understanding of your views and learned much. Thank you for the active discussion.

In the end, you have one ballot, I have one ballot. Let's all exercise our responsibilities and vote in the next general election (and hopefully it's going to be fair enough).

When there is challenge to ruling coalition, like now, active participation and debate like this emerge. As a result, we unknowingly do our parts in educating the student generation to be more aware of the political scene and be more involved in charting our nation's future. I want to believe this is a good cause.
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Last edited by Seiryu; 28-04-2012 at 11:57 PM. Reason: adding new thoughts, refining sentence structures. the usual stuff
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  #63 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

being a first class citizen and having first class governance is not the same. mahathir was heavy-handed in dealing with dissenting views and proton would not have survived if not for the protective duties slapped on foreign cars. his proclivity for the stick and blatant abuse of the ISA is what has earned him all that hate. we are taking a stand for our country by supporting bersih, that is the start of what we are doing for our nation.
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Zulhelmi Male
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  #64 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

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There are many parts that I disagree with you, and I still do. For example, I think that people are smarter and more aware now, due to the internet and that is a good thing. Although I must say that through the discussion with you I have obtained a clearer understanding of your views and learned much. Thank you for the active discussion.

In the end, you have one ballot, I have one ballot. Let's all exercise our responsibilities and vote in the next general election (and hopefully it's going to be fair enough).

When there is challenge to ruling coalition, like now, active participation and debate like this emerge. As a result, we unknowingly do our parts in educating the student generation to be more aware of the political scene and be more involved in charting our nation's future. I want to believe this is a good cause.
I actually agree with you in many ways. But unlike yourself (if I am not mistaken), I am not really a keen supporter of the opposition. I feel that they are also badly corrupted as the current government. But at least the current gov has a 50+ years in building a nation up to this current level. It is just a matter of giving them a GOOD wake-up call. I dont like the current government, but is there any GOOD replacement? Still a blur.

That is why I'm stressing on attitude reformation. I think Malaysians are getting lack of patriotism day-by-day, one of the many factors lah yang contribute to the decline of our nation's growth.
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  #65 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

i believe the burgeoning support for bersih demonstrates people taking a greater interest in the future of this country. even if the youths have been 'corrupted', the other age groups still present a significant number no?
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  #66 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

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being a first class citizen and having first class governance is not the same. mahathir was heavy-handed in dealing with dissenting views and proton would not have survived if not for the protective duties slapped on foreign cars. his proclivity for the stick and blatant abuse of the ISA is what has earned him all that hate. we are taking a stand for our country by supporting bersih, that is the start of what we are doing for our nation.
I think it was his blatant use of ISA and his powers that got us to this level (in terms of economic development and standard of living). He knew what's best for the country during his tenure.

Dude, if you havent been to Australia, try pegi sana sekejap. Bila nampak berapa banyak kerata Proton kat sana, balik bagitau kat aku apa perasaan kau
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  #67 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

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I actually agree with you in many ways. But unlike yourself (if I am not mistaken), I am not really a keen supporter of the opposition. I feel that they are also badly corrupted as the current government. But at least the current gov has a 50+ years in building a nation up to this current level. It is just a matter of giving them a GOOD wake-up call. I dont like the current government, but is there any GOOD replacement? Still a blur.

That is why I'm stressing on attitude reformation. I think Malaysians are getting lack of patriotism day-by-day, one of the many factors lah yang contribute to the decline of our nation's growth.
I'm not a keen supporter of the opposition too. And like you I am dismayed at the current government. But our opinion differs because I don't believe that the current ruling coalition will wake up no matter how much call we give them.

I think the word you want to use is Malaysians are losing faith in the current coalition day-by-day. Being patriotic is loving your country, not loving BN.
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  #68 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

your assertion that 'he knew what's best for the country' is questionable, and your support for his blatant use of the ISA appalling. how would you like it if anwar or someone else took power and jailed you for not supporting him? detention without trial has no place in a progressive society. i fail to see what his use of the ISA as a tool for political repression has to do with our economic performance(which isn't stellar by any measure).

and just how many proton cars have you seen in australia pray tell
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  #69 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

I don't really agree about Mahathir, but I do know it's an opinion thing. Economically he had big ideas that may have been right, but I'm kinda against him for what he did legally. But anyway, different debate.

I don't swallow everything I read either. And let me add that *everyone* believes what they want to believe. It doesn't mean we don't try our best to override that default mode sometimes. Reading several different sources of information is one way.

Regarding the rally, I said the mainstream news is skewed because firstly, I was there and therefore have firsthand experience generally, even if not perfectly. Secondly, it's because they've shown a pattern of blacking out information. So it's not a matter of the mainstream news lying to people, it's that they don't feature everything. Not wrong, just misleading, you could say.

If you ask me whether the opposition is has credible governing ability, I say that actually, yeah, they can probably do a decent job. I'm mostly looking at Penang and Selangor here, because they've had good economic reports the past number of years. To be fair, the other Pakatan states have not been quite as well governed (Kelantan especially, it partially is the state government's fault) but Penang and Selangor tell me that they have the right ideas and that with the right people, they might replicate it federally as well.

50+ years of governing doesn't mean much to me if so much money is still being lost to corruption, if bureaucracy still cripples the efficiency of our staff and if big ministers still cannot be arrested. It just seems to me that they have 50 years experience in working the system, rather than running it well. The incumbency argument is inherently dangerous because the longer the ruling party stays in power, the 'stronger' the so-called justification to keep supporting them - new powers take over all the time. It happens, and sometimes it works.
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  #70 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Bersih 3.0 Rally

i concur that economically he could have been right about some things, just don't think proton was one of them
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