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Discuss: People who vote for bad governments deserve them

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eve88 Female
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  #11 Old 22-06-2012 Default Re: Discuss: People who vote for bad governments deserve them

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Originally Posted by Nicholas92 View Post
The way I see it, if I were them, I'd think "Hey, my life's pretty bad now - maybe, just maybe, it wouldn't hurt to vote the other way one time".
The difficulty is getting whole constituencies to think that exact same way in a election, AND having THAT constituency field an eligible opposition candidate - that takes organization.

Organization that takes publicity.. And that turns into a cat-and-mouse game with the authorities.

It is difficult to mount a efficient political campaign when valuable time and energy is wasted hiding / safeguarding data/assets/what have you....

Of course if your candidate gets ISAed, you're back to square one

----
This is added to the fact that 5 years without any funding or miniscule funding from the government will be the death of a lot of kampungs... Do you want to risk it? Spin the wheel...

Last edited by eve88; 22-06-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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  #12 Old 26-06-2012 Default Re: Discuss: People who vote for bad governments deserve them

^No idea what that post was, but thanks mods

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Originally Posted by frankchong View Post
How do you count majority? As the examples given, Bakelalan constituency (mostly Malay) has 6958 voters, where as Pending (mostly Chinese) has 29488 voters, we had one BN seat and one opposition seat, but should be 1 BN seat and 4 opposition seat if we have equal representation. It was said that in Sarawak, even all the Chinese and Dayaks vote for the opposition (two third of the population), the opposition could still lost!
The more informed folks in the cities vote for the opposition and the number of representatives from the cities are small due to how the constituencies are divided. People in the country side are mostly simple and honest people. They have no match when faced with the skill and resources of the politicians. They are not that well informed either. A lot of them still have no electricity and running water from the tape, let alone finding out from the internet.
I'm still not sold on the 'not well informed' part entirely because in my mind I still think it's possible to objectively determine that 'hey, my life is pretty shitty'. Or could it be that having nothing better to compare with, that reality could be lost on them? I'm not exactly disputing your point, I'm just trying to see if anyone can rationalise how things work beyond just the repeated 'they don't have access to info' point.

But your point about constituency lines is much more convincing. I don't have the exact stats for the last Sarawak election, but I think it pretty much agrees with what you've said - the support is much less lopsided than we think, it's the current distribution that's given us a skewed impression. Which might render this discussion partially invalid, lol.

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Originally Posted by eve88 View Post
The difficulty is getting whole constituencies to think that exact same way in a election, AND having THAT constituency field an eligible opposition candidate - that takes organization.

Organization that takes publicity.. And that turns into a cat-and-mouse game with the authorities.

It is difficult to mount a efficient political campaign when valuable time and energy is wasted hiding / safeguarding data/assets/what have you....

Of course if your candidate gets ISAed, you're back to square one

----
This is added to the fact that 5 years without any funding or miniscule funding from the government will be the death of a lot of kampungs... Do you want to risk it? Spin the wheel...
So you're saying the alternative has never been viable? I.e. either no opposition candidates or candidates who have no standing in the constituency and hence do not win votes? I can buy that.

As for going five years without funding...that I'll dispute. If govt wins, they get their 'minuscule' funding. But if the opposition wins, don't you think they'll fund them too, to keep the support of people they worked so hard to win over?

I realise there are risks though - and that happens if voting is not kept confidential. A repressive government would 'punish' constituencies by taking away whatever little money they have only if they could determine who voted for whom. Obviously vote tallies tell part of the story but constituencies can be big.

But in my mind, seriously...what funding? Unless you count the occasional bribes/handouts that make their way there - otherwise, I'm pretty sure stuff like Budget-allocated funds almost always don't trickle down to the people. Not much of an incentive.

Sorry my replies are coming so late, been busy. Great responses so far.
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  #13 Old 26-06-2012 Default Re: Discuss: People who vote for bad governments deserve them

For reference this was the original post by shuwenteo before the mod edit:

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Originally Posted by shuwenteo View Post
Malaysiakini: The Foreign Affairs Ministry is upset over an article in a major Canadian newspaper which has categorised Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak as a 'false democrat', putting him in the same league as the world's autocrats. Ha.. Ha.. Ha..
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  #14 Old 26-06-2012 Default Re: Discuss: People who vote for bad governments deserve them

But let us just leave that reference right there, OK? Please proceed where Nicholas92 left.
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  #15 Old 26-06-2012 Default Re: Discuss: People who vote for bad governments deserve them

Moderator Note: Another out of topic post taken out to avoid degeneration of yet another thread.

Last edited by youngyew; 27-06-2012 at 01:22 AM.
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  #16 Old 27-06-2012 Default Re: Discuss: People who vote for bad governments deserve them

Mod Note: This was the original post by acgerlok7 before the mod edit.

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Shuwen, if you are here to promote opposition then no thanks. try to look at things on a more openly manner, and not just blindy and merely supporting for the sake of supporting, and do pls refrain from trolling us serious-talkers with pictures after picture, without even an effort to describe what are those pictures all about..
Please also refrain from discussing out-of-topic behaviour, because a rebuttal is bound to invite another rebuttal and this will also spiral down to yet another heated bickering and send the topic off the track.

All subsequent out-of-topic and commenting-about-out-of-topic posts will be removed to preserve our threads. Thanks.
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  #17 Old 27-06-2012 Default Re: Discuss: People who vote for bad governments deserve them

On number of voters in a constituency, it is usually reported during election result reporting, also they was a report from UNIMAS with the details. Just Google search for it. Soon after independence, the rule of 15% variance was allowed to give some advantage to people in the rural areas, but the rules has been modified as a mean to stay in power.

Election dynamics is more complicated than it appears on the surface. When we look at the election results:
1. It is the urban population that are more eager for a change, not necessary in love with the opposition, but want a more just government. It just happen that there are more Chinese voters in the cities, our native brothers and sisters in the cities have the same frustrations too, they are carrying the message home. It is not a race issue, especially in Sarawak and Sabah.
2. Even among the urban population, the decision was pretty hard. e.g., you are an ordinary honest citizen, your have stay in your house/shop/land since you are born, it is your family's saving from your parent's generation, the lease hold period of 99 years is up for renewal. If someone tell you, brother/sister ..., vote for me, I can help to get your lease hold renewed, otherwise, if you vote for the opposition, you will have no representation in the government you may not be able to renew your land/shop/house title. By the way, remember what happen in Indonesia a number of years ago, if you don't vote for use to keep pease, you may end up like in situation in Indonesia. All these and more games have been played before.
3. There are constituencies who have suported the opposition, look, what could they do, no development fund for years/decades. You kids need better schools, roads, tape water, electricity ... Help me so I can help you too! So, I will get ... for you and if I/BN candidate gets elected.
So, if you are poor, and have no other choice, what would you do? Join in for the spoil - eventhough the politician gets the biggest slice, at least you get something.

4. As far as information/informed decision, how many votes in the rural areas (especially among the elder generations) can read?
Let me share this personal story with you, when I was an engineer fresh out of school (in late 70s in Singapore), working in an MNC, I drew nice process flow charts for production to follow. However, now and then I found out that the signed off flow charts were not followed, I then had a walk down the production floor with a production supervisor. There were about 1 thousand operators in front of us working on their respective workstation, the production supervisor asked me: How many of these operators do you think could read? I had no idea, but I then found out that 80% of them had limitted literacy, could not read the specifications at all! So, go to the kampongs, stay there for some time and talk to the folks there.

5. Read beyond what is in the text books, I have the benefit of studying history in secondary school in 1963. The history before and after indepence was totally the opposite of each others. The pirates and rebellion that James Brook supressed became the heros and freedom fighters ...

But, God is very fair, we all come empty handed and will go empty handed, we want to be proud of everyone one of our country man/daughters, however, some of us decided to be remembered as the most corrupt and unfair to the people of the land, it is sad, but it is their choice. They may not be the one who writes history in the future.
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