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2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

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  #21 Old 26-07-2012 Default Re: 2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

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Originally Posted by shuwenteo View Post
It's possible into med school as an international student - Here's what Sisi said in response to VOA's article about why it's difficult for international students to get into American medical schools. But her determination, dedication and persistence never ceases to inspire me.
Read my post properly. I never said it's not possible. I said it's extremely difficult and expensive, and arguably not worth the trouble for a basic medical qualification.
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  #22 Old 27-07-2012 Default Re: 2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

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Originally Posted by shuwenteo View Post
Here is a list of U.S. medical schools that provide funding to international students:

STANFORD UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

1-5 are accepted each year (out of about 5% of all applicants). Canadian citizens are considered international students and most international students are not URM students. To matriculate at Stanford, students must meet INS requirements for F-1 or other student visas and must prepay tuition or establish an escrow account for four years of tuition and living expenses (~$250,000). Stanford University loans are available to international students.

UNIVERSITY OF CONNECTICUT SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

There are typically 2-4 international students in the first year class. Although no deposit is required, UConn looks for assurance (such as a statement of understanding) that the student can cover a reasonable portion of his/her expenses. The student must meet INS requirements for an F-1 or other student visa. Financial aid is on an individual basis.

EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

Canadian residents are included in the definition of international candidates. In recent years, about 8 out of 150 international candidates have been accepted to each entering class, but there is no limit. International candidates are given the same consideration for acceptance as citizens and permanent residents. Emory is committed to selecting the most qualified candidates. Accepted applicants must meet INS requirements and provide evidence that they can pay tuition for four years. No need-based financial aid is available to international students, but international candidates are eligible for some merit awards.

UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO PRITZKER SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

In the last three years, approximately ten have been accepted out of 600 applicants. When international applicants are accepted, they are provided information outlining the requirements of the plan they must present for meeting their financial obligations. Only limited funds are available for the financial assistance of international students.

NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY FEINBERG SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

Non-citizens without permanent residency are admitted to the Feinberg School. All applicants are required to have completed at least three years of course work at an accredited US or Canadian college or university, through study at the undergraduate or graduate level or a combination of both degree levels. Applications from international students who meet this requirement are welcome. It may be possible for international students to take out a loan for the cost of tuition only, if the student has a US co-signer, who must sign and provide creditworthiness.

HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL

Foreign students should take the required courses at a respected U.S. institution. Approximately 10-12 foreign students are accepted each year, almost all of who have a U. S. baccalaureate or advanced degree. They must meet INS requirements for F-1 or other student visa. Proof of ability to pay is required by Federal INS and the University; the Medical School's view is more clement than most. Financial aid is limited to institutional, not federal programs, but is comparable to the aid for domestic students.

WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

WUSTL enrolls a small number of noncitizens each year. Anyone who is not a citizen of the US is considered an international student. Most Canadians are also considered international (depending on their visas). Noncitizens must place an amount equal to four years’ cost of education into escrow prior to matriculation. Noncitizen students are eligible for MSTP institutional funding and merit-based financial aid.

ALBERT EINSTEIN COLLEGE OF MEDICINE OF YESHIVA UNIVERSITY

There have been 12 noncitizen/nonpermanent residents accepted in the past three years, from about 150 applications. In 2008, 6 international applicants were accepted, only 2 of them non-Canadians. Students who have earned baccalaureate degrees outside the US or Canada are required to complete at least one year of formal coursework in the sciences (about 30 credit hours) in an accredited American college or university prior to application to the College of Medicine. There is very minimal financial aid available to this population and deposits are required in advance (students can inquire about specifics). Students may obtain up to a maximum of $2500 per academic year from the Einstein College Scholarship Fund and up to a maximum of $5500 per academic year from the Einstein College Loan Fund.

COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS AND SURGEONS

In 2006, 394 international students applied and 4 were accepted. These enrollment numbers are fairly typical each year. International students must put one year’s tuition in to escrow. They may apply for Columbia financial aid.

WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

Noncitizens may be accepted if their undergraduate/graduate degrees are from US or Canadian institutions. They must have a current visa with ICE. Canadian students without green cards are considered international applicants. In previous years, 7% of our international students are included in the minority student count. In the last three years, 16 of approximately 600 international students were matriculated into WFUSM. International students must have paid in full their first year of medical school. Some commercial loans are available to international students.

UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

Penn has taken approximately 3-4 per year who has proof of financial resources for four years. No financial aid is available unless they qualify for one of the limited number of merit scholarships.

BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

In the last three years, twelve non-citizens without permanent residency through all routes of admission. Such applicants must meet INS requirements and generally are expected to establish an escrow account for four years of medical school tuition. Institutional financial aid is available to 1-2 international students in each entering class. Funding is available to international MD/PhD students in the PhD years.

VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

Vanderbilt accepts applications from non-citizens only for application to the first year class. Of the 156 international applicants each year, VUSM admits about 4-5 students. These students have not been included in VUSM’s count of minority students. International students must show that they are able to finance all four years of medical school. There are some Vanderbilt institutional monies for which international students may apply.

TEXAS A & M UNIVERSITY HEALTH SCIENCES CENTER COLLEGE OF MEDICINE

International students account for less than 2% (1/80) of our minority student count. There is an institutional policy on admitting internationals students. International students must have 90 credit hours from an accredited US institution. Over the past three years, three students from among approximately 100 applicants have been admitted. International students are required to present an I-20 immigration form and to provide evidence of the ability to finance four years of medical study. Only institutional scholarships are available to these students.

WESTERN UNIVERSITY OF HEALTH SCIENCES COLLEGE OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE OF THE PACIFIC

Students who are noncitizens without permanent residency have been accepted. They must provide a letter from a financial institution stating that they have the ability to pay tuition and related costs for the first year. No federal financial aid is available; private aid may be available. Canadian students are considered the same as other international students.

TEXAS COLLEGE OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS HEALTH SCIENCE CENTER

Non-citizens who graduate from a Texas high school may be considered as Texas residents in the admissions process. Applicants who are on a temporary visa or do not meet the requirements for Texas residency are considered non-residents. Canadian students are considered as non-resident applicants. In 2007 two international applicants were accepted from an international pool of 10. There are limited funding opportunities for international students through Texas Public Education Grants. Students are encouraged to pursue loan funding from outside sources.

Source: http://www.naahp.org/Default.aspx?tabid=2559


Sorry, this is the correct link:
http://blogs.voanews.com/student-uni...s-sisis-story/
Lol is that list really supposed to work in favour of applying to a US medical school? More than half say funding is 'limited' (which is essentially an euphemism for no funding) or only privately available. The rest are loans which do not negate my point about medical school in US being expensive- you still have to pay your loans eventually. If you choose to disagree and be Rm1 million in debt, be my guest. Only a very small handful of schools on your list actually provide some form of financial aid/scholarship and even those are in very limited availability.

I know you're a staunch advocate of US education and I can understand why, but the reality of the situation is that studying medicine in America is not pragmatic at all for 99% of the Malaysian population.
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Last edited by Young; 27-07-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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  #23 Old 28-07-2012 Default Re: 2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

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Originally Posted by shuwenteo View Post
E.g. America's strong undergraduate research program enables students to pursue graduate studies in fields such as bio-medicine and pharmacology as well as many other areas in the physical sciences.
Sadly, I don't think these fields offer very much employment opportunities locally. Nor are they attractive, should they exist. At least, that's what I have been told, because Malaysia is not yet full-frontal in the research side of science. Unless, Ms. buttercup's son doesn't intend to come back...

If I am wrong, I would at least like someone to clarify why it is so, though.
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  #24 Old 28-07-2012 Default Re: 2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

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Originally Posted by shuwenteo View Post
Actually, the vast majority of American students who start in a pre-med curriculum do not stay on that path. The reasons are many, but mostly they are related to the challenge of the curriculum or the discovery of another subject not previously thought about. Even though becoming a medical doctor through the US system is almost impossible for international students, there are many, many related careers for which America is an excellent choice. E.g. America's strong undergraduate research program enables students to pursue graduate studies in fields such as bio-medicine and pharmacology as well as many other areas in the physical sciences.
True but not relevant to the thread. We're on the topic of medical school, not biomedical sciences in America.
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  #25 Old 28-07-2012 Default Re: 2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-20...n-in-2012.html
Ignore the title of this. article is not very useful but some comments are good.
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  #26 Old 28-07-2012 Default Re: 2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

Thanks to those who have responded to my question. Very helpful.

Just in case if my son wants to do medical at Manipal (MMMC) and since they do not offer the foundation which would be the best and easy way. I am asking about the number of subjects to be taken , amount of fees , easy to pass........
1. SAM
2. AIMST
3. International Baccalaureate (IB)
4. New Zealand Bursary
5. CIMP/CPU/NSW/HSC
6. Unified Examination certificate
7. Mufy
8. AUSMAT

What does it means ;

Intakes
Jan & Jul (standard)
Mac & August (Accelerated)

What's the difference between standard & accelerated?
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  #27 Old 28-07-2012 Default Re: 2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

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Originally Posted by buttercup View Post
Thanks to those who have responded to my question. Very helpful.

Just in case if my son wants to do medical at Manipal (MMMC) and since they do not offer the foundation which would be the best and easy way. I am asking about the number of subjects to be taken , amount of fees , easy to pass........
1. SAM
2. AIMST
3. International Baccalaureate (IB)
4. New Zealand Bursary
5. CIMP/CPU/NSW/HSC
6. Unified Examination certificate
7. Mufy
8. AUSMAT

What does it means ;

Intakes
Jan & Jul (standard)
Mac & August (Accelerated)

What's the difference between standard & accelerated?
That is a very broad question and should really be answered from personal research. Most of the information can be found on Google anyway, and I'm not sure if many forummers are willing to spoon-feed you all the information you are looking for.

The general safe bet is usually A-levels. It's well recognized and the grades required for medical school are usually more achievable than the other programs. The flip side would be it's relatively long (1.5 years) duration and slight difficulty in relation to the other programs you listed.

Your choices also depend on where you intend on sending your son for medical school. If you're looking at local private colleges, admissions is generally easier and it really doesn't matter that much which program he takes as long as he does well. Most of the newer local colleges have very lax admission standards; entrance is usually contingent on money more than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuwenteo View Post
A group of medical professionals give advice on how and why studying medicine is important. You should be aware that many students are blindly choosing to enter the medical profession at age 17 or 18, with little or no knowledge about the challenges in that profession. Of course, some may just be trying to please their parents.
Of course. But it is not your call to dissuade people from studying medicine and asking them instead to do biomedical science or related fields in America.
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Last edited by Young; 28-07-2012 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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  #28 Old 29-07-2012 Default Re: 2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

Quote:
Originally Posted by buttercup View Post
Thanks to those who have responded to my question. Very helpful.

Just in case if my son wants to do medical at Manipal (MMMC) and since they do not offer the foundation which would be the best and easy way. I am asking about the number of subjects to be taken , amount of fees , easy to pass........
1. SAM
2. AIMST
3. International Baccalaureate (IB)
4. New Zealand Bursary
5. CIMP/CPU/NSW/HSC
6. Unified Examination certificate
7. Mufy
8. AUSMAT

What does it means ;

Intakes
Jan & Jul (standard)
Mac & August (Accelerated)

What's the difference between standard & accelerated?
Dear Buttercup, I'm not sure about those programmes as I'm a ex-STPM-er but I hope that you understand that an easy pre-u programme would help your son score. However, in my personal opinion, an easy pre-u programme may leave a wider knowledge gap and that would be a problem when your son enters university.

Btw, standard means the course is carried out the usual duration but accelerated ones will join the standard ones in the middle.
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  #29 Old 30-07-2012 Default Re: 2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

Like Young said, we are willing to offer our expertise in guiding your son to his answer, but we do not intend to give every single clue. If what you told me is true ; that is both of you are researching the options together, I better hope he had not been pulling your leg expecting mummy dearest to do everything for him, I'll be honest with that. Even for my own A-level I did not really get my parents help in enquiring simple things like fees, intake date, structure of study, etc. They'd just drop me off at any edu fair or college I need to go to for my information.

AIMST Foundation course structure is easily available online, the fees should be there too. SAM, IB, option 5, AUSMAT and A-level all have different fees depending on the institution you are going to take, not to mention the external fees you will be paying will involve transactions of foreign currency (eg A-level - UK pound) Even if we did divulge the information here, it'd be a headache just looking at the figures and course structure. Get your son to research this HIMSELF regardless of SPM. An hour or two is not very demanding for simple Google research and phone calls to institutions. I even wrote emails cause I get nervous sometimes talking to someone on the phone so formally. I'm very confident he is smart enough to tabulate all the info you are asking for into a very simple table even for the common layman to comprehend. MUFY? Ask Monash, very simple. Fixed price. Never heard of option 4. UEC is mainly only for students in Secondary Chinese Schools like Chung Hwa. UEC is not exactly a favourable choice if local universities are your choice. There is pretty heated up debates on UEC's recognition ; typical when politics in Malaysia tries to toy with education.

Standard A-level : 1.5 years. Accelerated : 1 years. Though it sounds tempting to do it in 1 year, I will strongly discourage him. Stress is tremendous especially for a medicine bound student. He will be doing as it should be, the 3 sciences (Biology, Physics and Chemistry) with one Mathematics. The 3 sciences are already huge time-consumers as EACH subject has it's own practical papers for AS. That's 3 practical papers to prepare for and only 1 year for it. I had 1.5 years with 2 practical papers for AS and extra classes. Even with that, my batch did not have enough time to cover everything necessary. We had to go through a lot of past years on our own and self-reading. This is not even taking into account IF *touch wood* he needs to retake AS. Most of my friends in 1 year A-level only did 3 subjects, the rare geniuses took 4 but I'm not sure if their results were anything stellar because one of them I knew plummeted during her A2 trials. The reality I am portraying is that in that 1 year you are learning what was originally designed to be taught in 1.5 years. 2 years (scholar students usually) is meant as an alternative because it allows for convenient access into university later (especially UK bound). Other than that, I think only UK students do it in 2 years. In the case of those other pre-universities, their program is modelled to be suited for a year's time considering the outside possibility of delays of any kind (which is typically not avoidable). The length to which the course is designed to be reflects syllabus in-depth. Simple words ; if it takes longer, by right it should be tougher/more to learn.

EASY TO PASS? As a former A-level student I wish someone could have told me this earlier LOL. It's kind of a crude question to ask. If a test is easy to pass, it's pretty obvious some loopholes exists in the course structure OR whatever you are potentially paying for is a crash course where your son will learn nothing more than he already knows. Especially since your son is aiming for medicine, a field requiring extensive academic grasp, he will require a pre-university that will train him to be more competent with increasing difficulty load. Nothing is easy when we first learn something. Maybe in your case, you cook and are good at it, ms Buttercup. Did you think it would have been the same when you first started? The same applies to your son's academics. It cannot possibly progress easier as he goes up and up. If it does, all it will breed is complacency in academics. Difficulty breeds strive for excellence.

Again, long story short, any pre-university or foundation for that matter, will be hard to some degree. If whatever he chooses is almost 80% easy, he will learn relatively NOTHING at the end ; in the same time he could have doubled his capacity to learn with a program that is only 20% easy.
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Last edited by frostbyte13; 30-07-2012 at 02:33 AM.
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  #30 Old 30-07-2012 Default Re: 2012 SPM students - interested in medicine

you should check with mmmc. i was there at the edu fair and i'm pretty sure mmmc did say they have their own foundation program. and they also said they guarantee you a place in mmmc as long as you pass the foundation with their minimum requirements. others will have to apply and sit for an interview.

this is a good option if you have the finance. my brother is in manipal (not mmmc) and it's a good uni. he says the mmmc students are well taken care and also there are new blocks of hostels being built for them. kfc just opened in manipal a few days ago haha.

standard is the usual no. of months for a course. accelerated means they cram everything up into a few months. accelerated is normally after spm results come out. my friend is taking sam (accelerated) and he's finding it very hard to cope.
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