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Malaysia vs. Singapore

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raizz
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  #1 Old 09-03-2004 Default Malaysia vs. Singapore

In truth, I'm a great admirer of Singapore. Lee Kuan Yew the Senior Minister who is still the real power behind the country has created a country out of a small island. ???and has done a good job moulding the character of his people. Unfortunately for Singapore and Malaysian relations, Lee Kuan Yew has always kept his country on its toes by posing Malaysia as its bogeyman. It has also insulted our country openly by saying our country is rife with corruption and laziness. And the worst thing is that we are their potential enemy.

I am tempted to share my views on the notion of a union between Singapore and Malaysia. For a start, I believe that such an idea is unlikely, at least not during our present generation. Perhaps an Economic Union but definitely not politically or even socially. On Singapore's part there is simply too much intolerance on how we do things, too much suspicion on Malaysia's intentions and they regard with validity that Singapore is too developed a nation for Malaysia.

Corruption could be one of the main factors stopping the unification of Singapore and Malaysia. I mean, can the Malaysian government cope with an atmosphere free from corruption? Can the BN government rule in a condition free from corruption, nepotism, favouritism etc as opposed to their PAP counterpart? In fact, in the last Singaporean General election, the opposition parties were in a state of loss as they had very few issues to pick with the Singaporean government. Singaporeans aren?t speaking up because to speak up and challenge the powers that be would attract so much scorn from the dictator that people prefer to keep quiet, at least for now. If one were to so much whisper "Corruption!" by the Lee family, defamation suits would come raining down.

Put aside these bickering and unneighborly behavior and look at the big picture ?We continue to compete and compare with Singapore so infamously, and forget the likes of the other 8 siblings in Asean. Recom is a movement for the future. Let?s decipher what doctrines of values and virtues we're keen to champion. Lets then disseminate that seed all across Asean.
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raizz
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  #2 Old 09-03-2004 Default Malaysia vs. Singapore

In truth, I'm a great admirer of Singapore. Lee Kuan Yew the Senior Minister who is still the real power behind the country has created a country out of a small island. ???and has done a good job moulding the character of his people. Unfortunately for Singapore and Malaysian relations, Lee Kuan Yew has always kept his country on its toes by posing Malaysia as its bogeyman. It has also insulted our country openly by saying our country is rife with corruption and laziness. And the worst thing is that we are their potential enemy.

I am tempted to share my views on the notion of a union between Singapore and Malaysia. For a start, I believe that such an idea is unlikely, at least not during our present generation. Perhaps an Economic Union but definitely not politically or even socially. On Singapore's part there is simply too much intolerance on how we do things, too much suspicion on Malaysia's intentions and they regard with validity that Singapore is too developed a nation for Malaysia.

Corruption could be one of the main factors stopping the unification of Singapore and Malaysia. I mean, can the Malaysian government cope with an atmosphere free from corruption? Can the BN government rule in a condition free from corruption, nepotism, favouritism etc as opposed to their PAP counterpart? In fact, in the last Singaporean General election, the opposition parties were in a state of loss as they had very few issues to pick with the Singaporean government. Singaporeans aren?t speaking up because to speak up and challenge the powers that be would attract so much scorn from the dictator that people prefer to keep quiet, at least for now. If one were to so much whisper "Corruption!" by the Lee family, defamation suits would come raining down.

Put aside these bickering and unneighborly behavior and look at the big picture ?We continue to compete and compare with Singapore so infamously, and forget the likes of the other 8 siblings in Asean. Recom is a movement for the future. Let?s decipher what doctrines of values and virtues we're keen to champion. Lets then disseminate that seed all across Asean.
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el_empty
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  #3 Old 09-03-2004 Default

holy cow

true LKY is a controversial figure. but please be more specific and quote your sources when making such provocative statements (you might get sued yourself). specifically, do quote sources for the following:

a) "posing Malaysia as its bogeyman"
b) "insulted our country openly by saying our country is rife with corruption and laziness"
c) on what grounds are we "their potential enemy?"
d) Singapore's "intolerance on how we do things" and "suspicion on Malaysia's intentions" and their "regard with validity that Singapore is too developed a nation for Malaysia"

sorry too many holes.

btw, there will never be a reunification. there's no reason to and there never will. singapore and malaysia are two separate, sovereign, and independent, nations.
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el_empty
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  #4 Old 09-03-2004 Default

holy cow

true LKY is a controversial figure. but please be more specific and quote your sources when making such provocative statements (you might get sued yourself). specifically, do quote sources for the following:

a) "posing Malaysia as its bogeyman"
b) "insulted our country openly by saying our country is rife with corruption and laziness"
c) on what grounds are we "their potential enemy?"
d) Singapore's "intolerance on how we do things" and "suspicion on Malaysia's intentions" and their "regard with validity that Singapore is too developed a nation for Malaysia"

sorry too many holes.

btw, there will never be a reunification. there's no reason to and there never will. singapore and malaysia are two separate, sovereign, and independent, nations.
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Thirdshifter
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  #5 Old 09-03-2004 Default

heh, Malaysia is actually smart to let singapore go. If i was Tunku, i would myself.

Singapore had become what it is today because of what british left them. A huge popular sea port. Unfortuantly Singapore was built from money collected from The Malaya during those 200 years of imperialism.

Past is the past. I'm pretty sure down the road, Malaysia would be a greater country because of it diversity and it's history. Malaysian fight for their rights and equaloty and we would eventually learn how to cherish it more and to protect it more.

Anyway, Malaysia is still singapore biggest partner when it comes to trading. So why the hatred?
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  #6 Old 09-03-2004 Default

heh, Malaysia is actually smart to let singapore go. If i was Tunku, i would myself.

Singapore had become what it is today because of what british left them. A huge popular sea port. Unfortuantly Singapore was built from money collected from The Malaya during those 200 years of imperialism.

Past is the past. I'm pretty sure down the road, Malaysia would be a greater country because of it diversity and it's history. Malaysian fight for their rights and equaloty and we would eventually learn how to cherish it more and to protect it more.

Anyway, Malaysia is still singapore biggest partner when it comes to trading. So why the hatred?
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el_empty
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  #7 Old 09-03-2004 Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdshifter
heh, Malaysia is actually smart to let singapore go. If i was Tunku, i would myself.
erm i'm not sure if it immediately were a smart thing to do to let singapore part from malaysia. it's a huge topic and there are many ways, good and bad, to look at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdshifter
Singapore had become what it is today because of what british left them.
ah malaysia is also quite what it is today because of prolific rubber, tin, and gas(!!) industries, also 'gifts' from the british (plus the dutch for the gas). they also left us (formerly known as) port swettenham, airstrips/ports, etc., things they left with the singaporeans too. i say we were on a better footing since we had a huge natural resource industry.

on a sidenote, their greatest gift is a good working education system, which we brutalized, reducing it to a complete failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdshifter
Unfortunately[sic] Singapore was built from money collected from The Malaya during those 200 years of imperialism.
ok this i really have to disagree. this statement generalizes too much and can mean many things. singapore was the most profitable investment for the east india co. and the colonial office, partly bc it conducts entreport trading with resources from the malay peninsular.

however your statement can also convey the meaning that singapore, in its early years as an independent country was built by virtue of capital channelled from malaysia. this is quite untrue. right after the seperation, singapore's economy was virtually kaplut - there were no natural resources, very small educated workforce, and the british military - the biggest consumer group, security force, and technicians for the port - left in 1967. what brought singapore up, or should i say, what built singapore from then on, was sound and prudent leadership, planning, and diplomacy.

on that note, another way to read your statement is that when malaysia was formed, and later the expulsion of singapore, a lot of malayan businesses and cash left for the island state, and those moolah were used to build singapore. true. but that i don't see anything wrong with. the malay peninsular was a huge mess and inbreeding ultranationalism + racial riots and what not. simple rule: turmoil = capital flight.
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el_empty
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  #8 Old 09-03-2004 Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdshifter
heh, Malaysia is actually smart to let singapore go. If i was Tunku, i would myself.
erm i'm not sure if it immediately were a smart thing to do to let singapore part from malaysia. it's a huge topic and there are many ways, good and bad, to look at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdshifter
Singapore had become what it is today because of what british left them.
ah malaysia is also quite what it is today because of prolific rubber, tin, and gas(!!) industries, also 'gifts' from the british (plus the dutch for the gas). they also left us (formerly known as) port swettenham, airstrips/ports, etc., things they left with the singaporeans too. i say we were on a better footing since we had a huge natural resource industry.

on a sidenote, their greatest gift is a good working education system, which we brutalized, reducing it to a complete failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdshifter
Unfortunately[sic] Singapore was built from money collected from The Malaya during those 200 years of imperialism.
ok this i really have to disagree. this statement generalizes too much and can mean many things. singapore was the most profitable investment for the east india co. and the colonial office, partly bc it conducts entreport trading with resources from the malay peninsular.

however your statement can also convey the meaning that singapore, in its early years as an independent country was built by virtue of capital channelled from malaysia. this is quite untrue. right after the seperation, singapore's economy was virtually kaplut - there were no natural resources, very small educated workforce, and the british military - the biggest consumer group, security force, and technicians for the port - left in 1967. what brought singapore up, or should i say, what built singapore from then on, was sound and prudent leadership, planning, and diplomacy.

on that note, another way to read your statement is that when malaysia was formed, and later the expulsion of singapore, a lot of malayan businesses and cash left for the island state, and those moolah were used to build singapore. true. but that i don't see anything wrong with. the malay peninsular was a huge mess and inbreeding ultranationalism + racial riots and what not. simple rule: turmoil = capital flight.
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el_empty
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  #9 Old 09-03-2004 Default

just a footnote:

i apologize if i seem a little aggressive in this forum... i'm not. it's just a pet topic of mine, probably my favorite issue to bounce around.

and i'm really glad that raizz (thanks! ) raised the issue. do communicate your views everyone!
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el_empty
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  #10 Old 09-03-2004 Default

just a footnote:

i apologize if i seem a little aggressive in this forum... i'm not. it's just a pet topic of mine, probably my favorite issue to bounce around.

and i'm really glad that raizz (thanks! ) raised the issue. do communicate your views everyone!
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