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Abolish PTPTN?

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henry_yew Male
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  #21 Old 20-04-2012 Default Re: Abolish PTPTN?

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Originally Posted by shuwenteo View Post
On schooling: Education, including college, is free in Algeria while the govt in Peru provides every child with a laptop.
Good grief! Education is not free in the United States, nor is it in the United Kingdom, nor Australia, nor China. There you go. Period.

You seem to be under the delusion that just because somebody else can do certain things then we must follow suit. Don't you ever stop for a moment and think about other factors, such as demography, economy, social, status quo, etc.?

And above all, all this has nothing to do to justify the abolition of PTPTN.
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  #22 Old 21-04-2012 Default Re: Abolish PTPTN?

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Originally Posted by shuwenteo View Post
On schooling: Education, including college, is free in Algeria while the govt in Peru provides every child with a laptop.
May I know how well they are doing economically?
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  #23 Old 21-04-2012 Default Re: Abolish PTPTN?

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Originally Posted by shuwenteo View Post
On schooling: Education, including college, is free in Algeria while the govt in Peru provides every child with a laptop.
That's all fine and dandy... except:

1. Algeria's literacy rate is at a mere 70%, only half of the eligible students are enrolled in secondary school and the system suffers from a crippling shortage of teachers. Education in Algeria is only free on paper but if you'd rather have that, then be my guest.

2. Peru has primary and secondary population of approximately 7 million people, and has only purchased less than a million laptops under the One Laptop per Child. 14% hardly constitutes as 'every child'. Even if every child were to get a laptop, since when did having one correlate with quality of education? OLPC is an interesting project but it is not without criticism- much flak has been drawn regarding its cost/benefit ratio, lack of utilization in the lower socio-economic setting and being plain ineffective at improving education quality, amongst other things.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/profiles/Algeria.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_per_Child
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  #24 Old 28-04-2012 Lightbulb Re: Abolish PTPTN?

This is cool, a civilised discussion.

I agree, who says PTPTN is a scholarship? As several recommers have said before its a loan, the students borrowed the money, only makes sense to repay the loan. Didn't they read the fine print?

Besides, recently primary and secondary education has been made "free" and even before it was really cheap.

Free education may be possible but definitely not next year as Anwar Ibrahim claims if PR wins the election, lots of time and thought has to be put into a scheme like this. PTPTN must be around for people who didn't get scholarships or otherwise wouldn't be able to afford tertiary education.

Furthermore, people tend to take for granted anything that comes too easily. The government would lose more money on students who fail, students who hop from one course to another, students who play truant, students who cheat, etc. Not saying that everyone does this but its a possibility since students might take this lightly since they have nothing to lose by having their tuition free. This may also result in lower education standards, etc.

And lastly, GLC's and corporations may not be able to fund this free education scheme. As another recommer mentioned sometimes the government and these companies just have to prioritise. Quite frankly, I think Petronas is the only thing that is keeping the country afloat. Think about it, we even buy our rice from Thailand because our country's rice production only satisfies 40% of our needs. (Not sure if you people get my metaphor)

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Last edited by shawn95; 28-04-2012 at 12:29 PM. Reason: typo
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  #25 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Abolish PTPTN?

1) people shouldnt take things for granted. theres no free meal in the world. we shouldnt enlarge our infamous 'tongkat' policy into a larger scale.

2) these countries with free education, they come with a package of 50% income tax for most of their citizen. their lowest is 25%~, thats almost the max for Malaysian citizen. Yes, you can have free education, if you want to dedicate half of your income to the government. don't look at things at their sweet side only. some countries have free education, but it might not suit the others. If we are going to have free tiertery education next year onwards, i swear our country will go bankrupt in no time, even if it is under PKR's governance. in fact, only stupid politician will go for free education when the country's wallet is empty. this shows how immature the opposition is.

3) how many people will be benefited by free education? 10 thousand? 20 thousand? only a fraction of students in malaysia can go into university, why do you want the tax payers to bare the cost for you? what will you do good back to them? maybe if you have a 10 years bond? everything comes with a price. don't expect everything to be free. these money can be used in better place to benefit EVERYONE, like build LRT, help the agriculture industry etc etc.

4) even in advanced country, students are expected to take a loan to study (don't rely on parents or government) because you need to learn to be responsible to yourself. learn how hard is it to earn money. don't go for the easy way out.

5) IMO, this is just a publicity gimmick by the opposition to win votes from the short sighted university students. I wonder what the teachers teach in school. free education is a death road to our country. but human is selfish, commoners want their free goodies, politicians want their vote, in the end? the country collapse because of greed.
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  #26 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Abolish PTPTN?

I totally agree with most of you here. The opposition is over-promising. It's not that free education as an end-goal isn't possible (or desirable) it's just that PKR's the-moment-we-get-power-we'll-do-it kind of rhetoric is a dangerous kind of promise. Unlike promising to immediately repeal laws (which will also take longer as well) you can't just snap your fingers and implement free education.

Also, I swear, PKR seems to think we have unlimited oil resources to keep citing Petronas as this source for funding EVERYTHING. Notice how DAP and PAS are a lot quieter on the PTPTN issue?

I went to this PTPTN forum this other night...they mentioned how PTPTN loans would be converted to scholarships if students managed to get first-class honours. The student on the panel asked why that wasn't done anymore - and they answered that institutions were giving out too many first class degrees!

It really raises the central issue here - what is the use of making education so free and so accessible if the education itself does nothing in terms of productivity? Putting even more people through a weak education system does not really sound like a good idea to me. And of course students are going to want their costs written off - Malaysian mentality, if it's free than take lah. Not that I blame them. But that's why it's the job of proper leaders to know when the populist stance is not the right one.
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  #27 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Abolish PTPTN?

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Originally Posted by Nicholas92 View Post
Also, I swear, PKR seems to think we have unlimited oil resources to keep citing Petronas as this source for funding EVERYTHING. Notice how DAP and PAS are a lot quieter on the PTPTN issue?
I do have a bone against people citing PETRONAS as a funding source for almost every single thing that the people could think of. Just because PETRONAS is a national oil-and-gas company and that ultimately it "belongs to the people of Malaysia", they forget that PETRONAS is a for-profit multinational organisation. They also seem to forget that PETRONAS pays taxes to the government as well, and a huge sum at that, too.

But who can blame the people for thinking that PETRONAS should help shoulder every single thing that involves money when there are politicians who believe that PETRONAS should do this and that out of "corporate social responsibilities"?

You don't hear the Dutch asking Shell to fund everything for them.
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  #28 Old 28-04-2012 Default Re: Abolish PTPTN?

i can write a another full page of complain on increasing petrol subsidy. sometimes, the opposition just give empty promises that base on nothing.
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  #29 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Abolish PTPTN?

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I do have a bone against people citing PETRONAS as a funding source for almost every single thing that the people could think of. Just because PETRONAS is a national oil-and-gas company and that ultimately it "belongs to the people of Malaysia", they forget that PETRONAS is a for-profit multinational organisation. They also seem to forget that PETRONAS pays taxes to the government as well, and a huge sum at that, too.

But who can blame the people for thinking that PETRONAS should help shoulder every single thing that involves money when there are politicians who believe that PETRONAS should do this and that out of "corporate social responsibilities"?

You don't hear the Dutch asking Shell to fund everything for them.
I think people think that way because they feel that our oil is 'national property', i.e. the profits from our country's natural resources should go to us. It's not necessarily wrong, and I do believe that when you set up a GLC like that to maximise the resource then the benefits should reach the people (if not what's the point) but it's just irresponsible how people assume EVERYTHING must come from there and how it's this bottomless pit of potential cash IF ONLY they redirect the money to the people.

Plus we're not gonna have oil forever. I dunno why people just don't grasp this sometimes.
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  #30 Old 29-04-2012 Default Re: Abolish PTPTN?

Well, just because we don't have unlimited oil doesn't mean that PETRONAS cannot continue to prosper. Despite popular beliefs, oil isn't really going to be completely depleted anytime soon.
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